ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and PC’s “coming soon” mystique (EDIT: PC FIXED IT! HAZAAH!)

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ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and PC’s “coming soon” mystique (EDIT: PC FIXED IT! HAZAAH!)

Post by VZvision » Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:25 am

So I’ve been waiting for Perfect Circuit to get in more of these for probably 2 months. I’d reached out to ADDAC direct and they mentioned a shipment soon so thought I’d save on Euro to Canada shipping.

Perfect Circuit seems to have this ridiculous set-up for ADDAC modules where you can’t pre-order when something is out of stock. Not to mention their treatment for things being “out of stock”. This unbelievably annoying “coming soon” tag line which is the most idiotic way of saying they don’t have something and really have no line-of-sight on when it will be available. Everything they’ve ever kept in stock, if not in stock, is “coming soon” I guess.

:foul:

So I receive a re-stocked email tonight that was time stamped an hour before I’d read it. My stoke energized, I skip over to PC on my phone to scoop my order....BOOM...still “coming soon”. Gotta be a mistake right? Check the other ADDAC modules that were “coming soon”...all are mostly now in stock.

So two things:

1. Congrats on all those that scooped up one! I’m biting the bullet and going back to ADDAC directly, but stoked for you lucky few who snagged it :tu:

2. Perfect Circuit employees if you’re listening....this is a perfect example of why your ridiculous “coming soon” tag-line has to go. The shipment of modules was received and now they are all gone. They are not “coming soon”. They are sold-out.

I know I should probably just read “Out of Stock” when it says “Coming soon” which I do 99% of the time, but this little experience just made it so glaringly stupid, I guess I had to vent somewhere and say something about it.

Also, for those that obtained the unobtainable in N. America, please share some patch ideas and sounds if and when you feel :tu:
Last edited by VZvision on Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by Richard deHove » Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:01 am

Not a fan of Perfect Circuit. When I tried to return a faulty module to them under warranty they wanted to charge me more than half the module's price just for one-way shipping. No thanks.

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by Struggle » Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:24 am

I was lucky enough to be browsing their site at just the right time last night. They had a bunch of other hard to come by ADDAC modules in stock too. Couldn’t believe my eyes.

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by mdoudoroff » Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:44 am

I have found it pretty painless to order direct from ADDAC.

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by synonymist » Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:02 am

Richard deHove wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:01 am
Not a fan of Perfect Circuit. When I tried to return a faulty module to them under warranty they wanted to charge me more than half the module's price just for one-way shipping. No thanks.
Richard, this sounds to me like slander by selective omission: I believe that you aren't telling important parts of your story.

Perfect Circuit are in California, USA. Where were you? What was the retail price of the module? If you were in Australia and the module's price was, say USD 100, then the cost of return shipping could have been quite high and equivalent to a high percentage of the module's price.

No surprise there, though it begs the question of why you chose to buy from a retailer halfway around the world. Scarcity, I suppose. But in that case, I would think that you understood the characteristic risks, in case there were any problems with the item or the deal.

Also, as far as I know, Perfect Circuit does not fulfill manufacturer warranties. However, they do have a 30-day return policy. Was your claim within 30 days of your purchase? If not, and your claim was against a manufacturer warranty rather, then I don't see how Perfect Circuit owed you anything.

I have no stake in Perfect Circuit; not a friend, owner, business partner, or endorser... nothing. But they have always done right by me as a customer, and they never so much as tried to do wrong.

Fair is fair is all. I would like to hear all the details of your story. If, with the whole story told it turns out that Perfect Circuit did you wrong, then so be it.

EDIT: More details about Perfect Circuit's current return policy:

https://www.perfectcircuit.com/policies-procedures

1. It seems that they do handle some warranty claims with an extended warranty service. But the customer must pay shipping.

"Perfect Circuit is excited to offer an extended warranty service, which is good for one year past the expiration of the manufacturer's warranty. This FREE warranty means you can always come to us in the event of a problem, even within the window of the manufacturer's warranty. Just pay shipping to and from our shop and we will take care of the rest!"

2. The "Risk-Free" 30-day return policy has conditions, and it differs slightly for domestic and international orders. Notably for international orders there seems to be no provision for prepaid shipping or any customs- or tax-related fees.

"Perfect Circuit offers risk-free returns for nearly all items. Most items purchased from Perfect Circuit have a 30 day return policy starting from the date of shipment. If an item return is initiated within 15 days of the original shipment date no restocking fees will be charged."
Last edited by synonymist on Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by Paranormal Patroler » Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:02 am

Struggle wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:24 am
I was lucky enough to be browsing their site at just the right time last night. They had a bunch of other hard to come by ADDAC modules in stock too. Couldn’t believe my eyes.
Such as?
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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by Richard deHove » Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:26 am

synonymist wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:02 am
Richard deHove wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:01 am
Not a fan of Perfect Circuit. When I tried to return a faulty module to them under warranty they wanted to charge me more than half the module's price just for one-way shipping. No thanks.
Richard, this sounds to me like slander by selective omission: I believe that you aren't telling important parts of your story.

Perfect Circuit are in California, USA. Where were you? What was the retail price of the module? If you were in Australia and the module's price was, say USD 100, then the cost of return shipping could have been quite high and equivalent to a high percentage of the module's price.

No surprise there, though it begs the question of why you chose to buy from a retailer halfway around the world. Scarcity, I suppose. But in that case, I would think that you understood the characteristic risks, in case there were any problems with the item or the deal.

Also, as far as I know, Perfect Circuit does not fulfill manufacturer warranties. However, they do have a 30-day return policy. Was your claim within 30 days of your purchase? If not, and your claim was against a manufacturer warranty rather, then I don't see how Perfect Circuit owed you anything.

I have no stake in Perfect Circuit; not a friend, owner, business partner, or endorser... nothing. But they have always done right by me as a customer, and they never so much as tried to do wrong.

Fair is fair is all. I would like to hear all the details of your story. If, with the whole story told it turns out that Perfect Circuit did you wrong, then so be it.
It was $US80 shipping on a $150 module. And yes (according to the manufacturer), they were responsible for returning it under warranty. Fortunately the manufacturer was more accomodating and after I recounted the story they replaced it directly. I shipped the module back to them for US$15. They even sent the replacement to me before I sent them the faulty one!

It is merely an example of customer service. Despite receiving a faulty module initially, I now regard the manufacturer with great respect.

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by Struggle » Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:56 am

Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:02 am
Struggle wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:24 am
I was lucky enough to be browsing their site at just the right time last night. They had a bunch of other hard to come by ADDAC modules in stock too. Couldn’t believe my eyes.
Such as?
In addition to the 215 I ordered a Floor Control and Gated Envelope Follower. These are all modules I’ve been wanting for some time and don’t come up often. They had some others in stock..maybe “a bunch” is a exaggeration:)

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by starthief » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:32 am

I used to like Perfect Circuit, but my rule of thumb has become:

- never preorder from Perfect Circuit, because it has worked out well 0% of the times I've tried.
- never buy anything else they list as "Coming Soon."
- for in-stock items, only buy from them if there's a discount, unless I feel like waiting a few extra days before they ship.
- sometimes they have nice videos and events, so they have that going for them.
- it's probably a very nice store to go to in person if you're local and there's not some kind of global pandemic.

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by VZvision » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:48 am

mdoudoroff wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:44 am
I have found it pretty painless to order direct from ADDAC.
Sweet. And yeah they’ve already gotten back to me :tu: I really should have just ordered from them to begin with, but was trying to save some dollars on shipping.
Struggle wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:24 am
I was lucky enough to be browsing their site at just the right time last night. They had a bunch of other hard to come by ADDAC modules in stock too. Couldn’t believe my eyes.
Radical! Share some sounds when it arrives :tu:

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by adaris » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:51 am

Honestly I'm tired of hearing about this BS "risk-free" return policy that Perfect Circuit supposedly has. Recently I placed an order for two items. Realized I didn't need one of them, so I sent an email AND left a voice mail for them to remove the one item from the order. That was on a Saturday I think. Monday afternoon I get a shipping notice for both items. Not the end of the world, I figure I'll send back the item I wanted to remove from the order. So I promptly PAY to ship it back to them, only to have them charge me a $12.95 "shipping and handling fee" (which isn't mentioned anywhere under their return policy that I can see) ON TOP OF THAT for an item that I TOLD THEM NOT TO SEND ME, and which was included in a shipment with another, more expensive item that I kept! I pointed out that IMO the fee was unwarranted, the guy I was in contact with via email said he would forward my case to the RMA dept, and of course they have never gotten back to me. Maybe if I were to get a hold of someone on the phone and bitch about it they would refund the fee, but at this point I'm kind of tired of dealing with it. Which I imagine is the whole goal of ignoring emails and giving me the runaround like this.

I also recently cancelled a pre-order I had placed with them for a Disting EX, they were polite and handled it quickly when I got a hold of them on the phone, but why couldn't they have done that in response to the email I sent them a few days previously? They have a department specifically dedicated to customer service, does customer service not include checking and responding to emails and voice mails?

I've done a ton of business with PC over the last couple of years, they have a large selection and with the frequent 10% off deals they often have the best price, but at this point I'm unlikely to deal with them again. I'd rather pay a little more to someone else with better customer service and less manipulative policies.

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by VZvision » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:59 am

starthief wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:32 am

- never buy anything else they list as "Coming Soon."
I’ve actually had okay transactions with them, but this is the main sticking point that I just don’t understand. EVERYTHING is generally either in stock or coming soon.

They are not the center of the Euro multi-verse where all modules are always just right around the corner and “coming soon”. By signalling to the unaware that something is coming soon, you’re adding fuel to their potential (and in most cases inevitable) disappointment when “soon” doesn’t come soon enough. It’s making something subjective which should be, by its nature, objective.
Last edited by VZvision on Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by synonymist » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:02 am

Richard deHove wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:26 am
synonymist wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:02 am
Richard deHove wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:01 am
Not a fan of Perfect Circuit. When I tried to return a faulty module to them under warranty they wanted to charge me more than half the module's price just for one-way shipping. No thanks.
Richard, this sounds to me like slander by selective omission: I believe that you aren't telling important parts of your story.

Perfect Circuit are in California, USA. Where were you? What was the retail price of the module? If you were in Australia and the module's price was, say USD 100, then the cost of return shipping could have been quite high and equivalent to a high percentage of the module's price.

No surprise there, though it begs the question of why you chose to buy from a retailer halfway around the world. Scarcity, I suppose. But in that case, I would think that you understood the characteristic risks, in case there were any problems with the item or the deal.

Also, as far as I know, Perfect Circuit does not fulfill manufacturer warranties. However, they do have a 30-day return policy. Was your claim within 30 days of your purchase? If not, and your claim was against a manufacturer warranty rather, then I don't see how Perfect Circuit owed you anything.

I have no stake in Perfect Circuit; not a friend, owner, business partner, or endorser... nothing. But they have always done right by me as a customer, and they never so much as tried to do wrong.

Fair is fair is all. I would like to hear all the details of your story. If, with the whole story told it turns out that Perfect Circuit did you wrong, then so be it.
It was $US80 shipping on a $150 module. And yes (according to the manufacturer), they were responsible for returning it under warranty. Fortunately the manufacturer was more accomodating and after I recounted the story they replaced it directly. I shipped the module back to them for US$15. They even sent the replacement to me before I sent them the faulty one!

It is merely an example of customer service. Despite receiving a faulty module initially, I now regard the manufacturer with great respect.
Thank you. May I suggest that customer service (CS) is one thing and terms of service (TOS) is a different thing. PC's TOS are easy to find and clearly stated at their website.

My reading of your account is:

You gambled on purchasing a low value item from a distant overseas retailer, either without reading their TOS or with reading their TOS yet assuming that they would 'just take care of you' anyway, no matter what might go wrong in the deal.

When something did go wrong, a manufacturing defect, the retailer's TOS was invoked and they chose to interpret it strictly in your case. Why did they? I don't know. But my guess is that the return shipping was so expensive, both as an absolute amount and relative to the item's value.

Learning this, you sought recourse with the (also distant overseas) manufacturer. They offered you a much more attractive solution. Why did they? I don't know. But my guess is that they were willing to eat their cost to keep a customer happy, since the cost was so low.

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by hawkfuzz » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:20 am

Well there's the whole pandemic delaying shipping and at this point everyone agrees preordering is a risky move for many reasons.

Don't other sites say "more on the way". What's the difference? Don't you see that there's no date as an indicator of uncertainty of when more will arrive? Why is it on them?

There's been a couple things anti Perfect Circuit on MW that come off as naive customers to me more than what is the responsibility of retailers. Adaris is the only one that I've seen with a warranted grievance.

Not trying to be inflammatory toward anyone.
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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by starthief » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:48 am

hawkfuzz wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:20 am
Don't other sites say "more on the way". What's the difference? Don't you see that there's no date as an indicator of uncertainty of when more will arrive? Why is it on them?
Control, Detroit Modular, Mattech and some others say "Sold Out" or "Out of Stock" or "Read More" on pages that list multiple items, and the product pages say "Out of Stock" with a box to sign up for notifications.

Midwest Modular uses "Out of Stock", but on the product page for 0-Ctrl, it also helpfully says "Back in stock in July!" That is a lot better than a vague "soon", and they don't make any similar promises for other out of stock items (e.g. with Synchrodyne Expander).

Analogue Haven says "email us for availability" for items they don't have in stock, and the "list" pages don't say anything... not ideal, but better than false promises.

"Soon" is vague, and since they use it for everything it's also untrue. In my experience PC has never shipped a preorder item or an item they claim they are restocking "soon".

If you look at Perfect Circuit's page for Synthesis Technology as an example, everything except a demo unit of the E352 is "Arriving Soon, We're expecting more shortly!" as if Paul is in his workshop furiously assembling E950s instead of getting ready to ship a metric ton of E520s.

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by AbundantChoice » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:01 am

Got the email at 10:30, got an order in at 11:45. Fingers crossed!
Over the last few weeks id almost given up and just ordered directly from Addac via Reverb, shipping be damned. Let's hope the order goes through.

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by tehyar » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:13 am

Competitive shopping really sucks.

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by synonymist » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:14 am

starthief wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:48 am
hawkfuzz wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:20 am
Don't other sites say "more on the way". What's the difference? Don't you see that there's no date as an indicator of uncertainty of when more will arrive? Why is it on them?
Control, Detroit Modular, Mattech and some others say "Sold Out" or "Out of Stock" or "Read More" on pages that list multiple items, and the product pages say "Out of Stock" with a box to sign up for notifications...

"Soon" is vague, and since they use it for everything it's also untrue. In my experience PC has never shipped a preorder item or an item they claim they are restocking "soon"...
Agreed: "soon" is a crap way to do it; "sold out", etc. are much more realistic and useful.

That said, my own experience with preorders and restocks from PC is somewhat different from yours. Yes, sometimes I ended up canceling a preorder because there just was no end in sight. But more often I received the item eventually.

Even when, in a few instances, I got the "item back in stock" email notice I signed up for, then checked the item page at PC only to find it "coming soon", after a brief panic I did get the shipping notice for the item.

Offhand I can recall that my preorder from PC for Xaoc Devices's Odessa worked well. It was a months-long wait, but in the end I got one of the first ones and avoided a wait of further weeks.

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by Joey P. » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:30 am

Yes. PC certainly uses the term "soon" very broadly.

But Perfect Circuit is also free shipping in US, no tax, and a 10% off coupon. If it's in stock at PC w/ coupon, that's where I buy it. If not, I try to buy direct from the manufacturer when possible.

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by VZvision » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:32 am

hawkfuzz wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:20 am
Well there's the whole pandemic delaying shipping and at this point everyone agrees preordering is a risky move for many reasons.

Don't other sites say "more on the way". What's the difference? Don't you see that there's no date as an indicator of uncertainty of when more will arrive? Why is it on them?

There's been a couple things anti Perfect Circuit on MW that come off as naive customers to me more than what is the responsibility of retailers. Adaris is the only one that I've seen with a warranted grievance.

Not trying to be inflammatory toward anyone.
Not inflammatory at all :tu: I'm all for distributors communicating the status of something. I order some equipment from Sweetwater, for example, and they are really granular in their approach with varying lead times attached to each product. But even there, if something is out of stock, it's out of stock.

I guess this whole experience for me just showed that this whole "coming soon" tagline at Perfect Circuit carries absolutely no weight. I mean they just received their ADDAC shipment as evidenced by my email, there was no way to pre-order any of the ADDAC stuff so it was first-come-first-serve, and the 215's sold lightning fast....but instead of marking them as sold-out, they are billed as "coming soon" a little over an hour after they sold out of their shipment. Furthermore, I've contact ADDAC now to get it direct and going to bite the bullet on the shipping and guess what? There are NOT more coming soon :bang:

And like Starthief point out above, every other distributor that I've used has a more genuine approach when they don't have something in stock. Even if its still a binary approach (i.e. in-stock or not in stock/sold out/email us), the language used reflects the reality not some sort of tactical approach to make it seem like something is just around some subjective corner for the uninitiated.

Well consider myself initiated :hihi:

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by VZvision » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:44 am

AbundantChoice wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:01 am
Got the email at 10:30, got an order in at 11:45. Fingers crossed!
Over the last few weeks id almost given up and just ordered directly from Addac via Reverb, shipping be damned. Let's hope the order goes through.
Stoked :banana: You probably got the last one cuz I wasn’t far behind you!

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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by hawkfuzz » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:21 pm

@starthief: I'm talking about Sweetwater. In my mind most people have dealt with them at some point so dealing with smaller shops I'd imagine you could apply the same rules, but maybe that's presumptuous.

Of course "Coming soon" means they don't have any and are ordering more and I guess if you're not in the business of researching, you'll not get that it's the same as "more on the way". There's no time frame given is all the reason for it to be a flag to email PC or the manufacturer to inquire.

I did it several times for the hydrasynth and got responses and time windows.

I could and currently can buy a Hydrasynth on Sweetwater even though they have none in stock and no arrival date. They usually add one, once they have verification with the manufacturer but don't wait to sell them. As a consumer, it's my money and responsibility to decide how I want to spend it. If I'm going to drop a lot of money and have no return immediately, I should figure out how much time I'm willing to wait. I can do that by emailing those involved with the goods I'm interested in receiving. It is nice for the companies to communicate and give windows to let you know when you should expect your products, however, if no one says anything how are they expected to know it's a problem for you?

The safest bet is to wait until things are in stock and when that's not an option, sending more than one email to keep afloat of whatever products might be coming your way, into your life.

I agree that "Coming Soon" could be misleading, but after years of dealing with marketing techniques you'll start reading through the lines.
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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by pugix » Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:21 pm

I'm waiting for ADDAC215 kits to come in at Thonk or Synthcube.

If you really want to pay a lot for shipping, there's this on Reverb.
https://reverb.com/item/33439337-addac215-dual-s-h
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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by casciato » Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:00 pm

starthief wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:32 am
I used to like Perfect Circuit, but my rule of thumb has become:

- never preorder from Perfect Circuit, because it has worked out well 0% of the times I've tried.
- never buy anything else they list as "Coming Soon."
- for in-stock items, only buy from them if there's a discount, unless I feel like waiting a few extra days before they ship.
- sometimes they have nice videos and events, so they have that going for them.
- it's probably a very nice store to go to in person if you're local and there's not some kind of global pandemic.

This mirrors my experience and current thinking on them perfectly. I tried to preorder a Disting Ex from them... Waited almost eight weeks, found a local seller, bought from him, cancelled my order... They weren't even particularly apologetic about the hassle and the fact that they had $320 of my money for almost two months.

Last time I bought something in stock it took them *four days* to ship it. And I get it: pandemic happening! But Detroit Modular, Control and Signal Sounds all managed to get my orders out the same day or the day after I ordered them, without fail, during the same time period. So did much smaller sellers such as Modular Addict and CalSynth.

I'll definitely shop there again the next time they have a 10% storewide discount, or if they're literally the only retailer with an item in stock that I need in a hurry, but otherwise I'll pass.
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Re: ADDAC 215’s unobtanium status and Perfect Circuit’s “coming soon” mystique

Post by Efudd » Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:13 pm

Adding/modifying starthief's list:

- for in-stock items, only buy from PC if there's a discount, *if i'm willing to pay for expedited shipping*
... Recently they've sold me in stock items and didn't use express shipping, only to end up with the item magically being backordered.

- If an item is "in stock", you order two but they only have one, you will get one with no notification that the other is backordered other than seeing "ordered 2: shipped:1" on the invoice.

- As far as "coming soon" goes, I was speaking with one manufacture in the last few days who shared their production plans with me for a module I ordered at PC that was/is "coming soon". The manufacturer tells me the next batch of that module is scheduled for production after August. Vendor went so far as to ask if PC charged in advance in that scenario (they do) and that they'd ask PC to update their notice for those products (PC hasn't).

They take a few days to respond to emails, whether it be for sales or for service.

They are now on my "if I really really have to" list and will try hard to find something elsewhere first.

-j

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