104hp Drum Synth Starter

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lmixl
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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by lmixl » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:31 pm

Useful tip, i would like this new rack to be independent , but not completely independent. I would like to clock sync both of them .
I would like to use this 104 as efficient as I can, in order to have a balanced drum synthesis with something like circadian rhythms for easy access sequencing.
Regarding modules.., it’s pretty hard. Let’s say I would like the Bia plus another voice?,.
I would like to have a complete drum kit that I could tweak to some extent and be able to sequence it on a 4/4 timing grid.
If the sampler module offers tweaking features, I don’t mind having a sampler module either.

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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by LameAim » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:56 pm

Cool, that's helpful. Circadium Rhythms looks dope, though I haven't used it. Another sequencer to consider would the WMD's Metron, which has 16 tracks and optional add-ons for CV control and accents if that interests you. Had one for a while, was great but also overkill for my needs at the time.

Can you specify what you mean by "complete drum kit?" That can mean different things to different people. Do you mean a kick/snare/tom/hi-hat setup? Or more like a classic 8-voice drum machine that'll have open and closed hats on different channels along with claps and rides and all the rest?

Another drum module suggestion if you're looking to add samples but don't need 8 of them would be the Erica Sample Drum.

BIA does a lot of stuff, though it really shines when you stuff it full of CV. Usual suspects for that would be NE's own Mimetic Digitalis, as well as the Voltage Block from Malekko. Have tried both and personally prefer the Digitalis - has fewer channels, but the workflow seems to suit my needs a bit better.

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lmixl
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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by lmixl » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:11 pm

Thanks, drum kit as in your first explanation( 4 major elements) or more if possible ( I guess this is where something like squid salmpler would work) , but I like your last idea ... noise engineering bia with mimetic... maybe I could expand on that

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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by sensien » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:16 am

sierraoskar wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:28 am
.. Befaco Percall to handle decay envelopes..
How is your Percall attack stage?
Mine is, for me, just too slow , feels like it is in the range of 3-4ms.

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lmixl
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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by lmixl » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:35 pm

Trying to be efficient in this endeavor... do you guys think I’ll need another full sequencer for this 104hp rack? I already own Usta and one voice.
Maybe a smaller sequencer or just Pamela would be enough? Or Mimetic instead?

It’s hard to decide on which modules for drum voices...
Should I choose a major sample module , like the Alm Squid and modulation aside... or
Bia plus tip-top ones and some modulation if room left
?

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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by kwaidan » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:17 am

lmixl wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:55 pm
What do you guys think? Fun to play, but also some tweaking possibilities in here?
Image
Given your sequencer and sampler module, I really do not see a need for the PM. You already have everything covered. In addition, you probably do not need the mute module—your chosen sequencer should have this option.

Honestly, a computer could perform the same function as your setup with free software from Computer Music. It would be better to focus on modules that are sonically different from what you cant get out of a DAW. In addition, it would also help to think about ways of sequencing that are hard in other formats.

Instead of the TT sequencer, you might want to check out the WMD Metron. It is far more complex and offers better performance options.

You may want to focus on analog modules for percussion. When your in a room listening to your setup, you will know the difference.

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lmixl
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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by lmixl » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:28 am

Good point! I do want to escape from computer and build several different stations/setups.. so I thought I could have some drum synthesis in a 104 rack
Intersting, with the drums/percussion i find it way harder to choose and build a system ( maybe because all references when to build a modular synth are based on synth lines and not percussion, even though in theory should be the same path).
What would be your go...the squid salmple or different drum voices (bia, plonk...)

Is there a Must utility module I need in this rack?
Not sure if Metron has mutes per output

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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by kwaidan » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:32 pm

The Metron has a mute mode that is easy to use. It also has memory and features much longer tracks than the CR.

The CR defaults to eight steps per track, and if I remember correctly, if you go to 16 steps, then you lose half your tracks. Again, I could be wrong, so check.

As for voices, you need to decide what kind of sound you want. Personally, I would stay away from spending too much on sampling because a computer or Elektron box is better suited. However, if you want to mangle the sound afterward with Eurorack, then maybe its worth a look.

The Noise Engineering stuff is good if you are into noise and industrial.

The Plonk reminds me a little bit of the Nord 2. It sounds nice but digital. The company that wrote the software has been around forever and has contributed some Ableton instruments.

Most modules are based on the old Roland boxes. The Black Noir is based somewhat on the CR 78. I found the controls tight and hard to adjust. More importantly, many of the voices share a single tone knob which moves a tone from voice to voice, which is very limited.

I have had good luck with Acidlab for 808 modules and Erica Synths for 909 modules. For kicks, I also use a Jomox which has a varied output and memory. TipTop is also good.

I haven’t tried Hexinverter but some of the modules are DIY, and these versions are too deep for some skiffs because through hole components are used. The factory versions are SMT and not as deep.

WMD makes some interesting modules. Addac has also come out with a 100 series of modules. The 104 and 105 are designed to make tom and blip sounds.

The Folktek Matter seems good for clicky, scratchy sounds.

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lmixl
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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by lmixl » Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:39 pm

I appreciate, I just watched some videos about Addac t-networks series and I like what they offer.
I also like their prices.
Do you guys think there is a substantial difference in between the addac 103 and 104?
Do I get same specs on 104, like in 103?
I cannot find videos or sound snippets from the 106...

Are these 3 series modules different in their timbre?

Is 103, specific for classic bassdrum, snare..?

Then 104 some sort of bleeps and toms?

106 i guess dealing with hats and stuff?

Or they all have same timbres?

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lmixl
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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by lmixl » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:45 pm

So my first module in this rack is the Noise Engineering Bia. There was tons of good reviews about it and I thought it could always bring something new in each patch .

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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by NeolithicElectrophones » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:35 pm

daphnid wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:41 pm


I would imagine that being a really fun setup tbh. The Squid doesn't accept accent so you wouldn't have much dynamics though. The Erica Drum Seq seems very much designed for their own drum modules but does look cool.

It definitely was designed for their own drums but works perfectly well with others. Currently have one in a 9u 104hp drum rack, most sound sources are NLC with an elements, sdsv+ for bass drum duties. It's a DEEP sequencer and hands down the best trigger producing interface I've ever used. Sold my Trigger riot immediately after a few days of using the Erica. Really easy to get the hang of although i think the manual could be longer and with the new firmware, no stability issues as of yet. LFOs are also super useful on it and accents find themselves all over the rack in ambient clocked patches. If OP is looking for a huge amount of functionality and flexible workflow for a system that might expand in the future the Erica would be my best recommendation.

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lmixl
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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by lmixl » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:19 pm

Thank you! What about the new sequencer Erica will deliver soon? Is it focused on drums? Or universal approach?

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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by kwaidan » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:17 pm

The difference between the ADDAC 103 and 104 is that the first one has knobs to adjust pitch and the second one has CV inputs to adjust pitch. Both seem to focus on toms, clicks, clavs, etc. While it can do kicks, there seems to be better options. Personally, I’d like to see a more extensive demo before committing.

Anyway, I just purchased a BIA. It seems to have a far more varied output than many other modules devoted to percussion.

The Michigan Synth Works SY 0.5 is also an interesting module capable of some odd and varied sounds. In fact, I have two of them. However, they may be an acquired taste, so it would be best to listen to the original Pearl unit to see if it works for you. There is a sample pack by Wave Alchemy that offers a free demp pack.

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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by lmixl » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:08 am

Thank you Kwaidan!

I went with the Bia too...I am also impressed with the whole range of modules Noise Engineering is providing.
Maybe one of the best performances ( based on my musical taste ) that I've seen is from Mathew? ( if I remember correctly) from Noise Engineering...where the whole session could easily end up on a record. It was nicely build up, plus variation and consistency. But here artistic skills are involved too.

Do you have your rack somewhere, so I could take a peak?

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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by sierraoskar » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:48 am

sensien wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:16 am
sierraoskar wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:28 am
.. Befaco Percall to handle decay envelopes..
How is your Percall attack stage?
Mine is, for me, just too slow , feels like it is in the range of 3-4ms.
Personally I find them quick enough - I use mine to shape my Kickall, to provide a decay envelope for an LPG (which is processing BIA), And for the two channels of Akemies Castle. The kick feels very punchy to my ears, though I do put it through a Instruo Tanh for limiting/ saturation.

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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by NeolithicElectrophones » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:01 am

lmixl wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:19 pm
Thank you! What about the new sequencer Erica will deliver soon? Is it focused on drums? Or universal approach?
More of a universal approach. You could use it for drums, but would be limited to 4 channels. The drum sequencer would be more useful if you plan on adding additional drum voices in the future. 16 channels is a lot, I usually only end up using 6-9 in a full patch.

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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by lmixl » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:08 pm

NeolithicElectrophones wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:01 am
lmixl wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:19 pm
Thank you! What about the new sequencer Erica will deliver soon? Is it focused on drums? Or universal approach?
More of a universal approach. You could use it for drums, but would be limited to 4 channels. The drum sequencer would be more useful if you plan on adding additional drum voices in the future. 16 channels is a lot, I usually only end up using 6-9 in a full patch.
I see...I have the Usta sequencer which i mainly use it for synth lines and not percussion/drums. I somehow would like to have a dedicated seq. for drums ( inside rack) maybe Mimetic Digitalis ( considering it's a 104hp rack). or i could buy a pod just for the metron

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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by NeolithicElectrophones » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:28 pm

Not sure you need another sequencer for drums if you plan on doing a four voice setup. Usta looks like it can handle that duty quite well. Voice wise have you considered a smaller redesign of mutable instruments elements? I have a jakplugg quarks and it has great percussive modeling and the ability to do string and woodwind stuff if you want to get away from traditional Bass tom snare Hihat percussive stuff.

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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by lmixl » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:26 pm

Usta would not be just for the drums/perc... i already have the 4ms Enosc and maybe soon another synth vco source. So I think I'll better find something else for the drums. I;ll check Elements. Thnaks

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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by NeolithicElectrophones » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:52 pm

Do you want a cv sequencer to change parameters on the drums or strictly a trigger sequencer to do different patterns on?

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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by lmixl » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:58 pm

You read my thought...I was thinking about what us difference in between varigate 8+ for ex.and a sequencer. I mean you have cv and gates on a sequencer , then varigate8+ is just a cv trigger? Can I call varigate a sequencer? Or pnw? I know Pamela has other functions but it’s a sequencer in principle , right? Sorry for my newbie questions...but MW is the only place where I have this feedback from experienced modular tweakers

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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by NeolithicElectrophones » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:41 am

Varigate is a gate sequencer, not a trigger sequencer. You most likely could use fast gates on it to get modules that need a trigger to sound, but I would recommend a dedicated trigger sequencer for drums.

Here is a great video explaining the differences by a member here. I recommend the entire series to any friend who is considering modular beginning a rack or thinks they know everything. Solid explanations and their music is great as well!



Pam's is a trigger sequencer, each channel can be set to have different patterns of triggers on it. So lets say you set up a beat that has four voices and 16 steps per voice, you could then select when those voices would be triggered within the sixteen steps. Each most likely be different with some sort of 1/4, 1/8 or 1/8 triplet variation.

Some trigger sequencers have swing which is also helpful to spice up or get some strange beat variations. Each additional channel not used on a voice could be used to trigger envelopes to get accents or change other parameters in the mix all clocked to the same source. If you're set on being limited to 104hp I would stick with drum modules instead of using sound sources and additional modules like vcas, filters and envelopes to get the voice. The downside to that approach is that it becomes only a drum skiff. If done the other way, the rack can be really whatever you need it to be. I originally went with the drum module only route and had several other euro case for things like ambient, drone, glitch etc, but ended up constructing this over the past year to consolidate into a case that could be whatever I wanted.
IMG_0574.jpg
There are some single voice modules, but for the most part drums are built from scratch. Middle row is mostly sound sources, top is modulation and processing, bottom is logic, effects and mixing.

A trigger sequencer doesn't need to be just for triggering voices, it can be a great way to add rhythm to ambient patches or atypical modulation events to keyboard type stuff. Starting slow is a great idea, but I think it should also be with possibility of expansion in mind. Possibly think about getting a 6u 104 hp case and porting your other modules over to it. DIY ing modules isn't for everyone, but cases don't need to be perfect and the cost difference between 3u and 6u isn't much higher if planned right.

Hope that helps and no need to apologize for asking questions, we've all been there. If no one ends up answering, the search can be hard to navigate but pays well with other knowledge picked up by trying to find the answers you want.
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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by lmixl » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:46 am

Appreciate your tips!

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Re: 104hp Drum Synth Starter

Post by lmixl » Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:39 pm

Image
So far through the journey...I don't have yet the sequencer ( I would like the Metron though...)

Now utilities/modulation/filter modules...I was thinking next the Mum m8 or what would be your next move in this rack?

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