Another beginner ready to go down the rabbit hole!

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shize312
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Another beginner ready to go down the rabbit hole!

Post by shize312 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:51 am

Hello everyone, i am a newbie getting - pretty confused - into modular, and here my first message and thanks to the community.

I have spent quite some time studying and looking for advice, suggestions and solutions on i want my first eurorack case to be built to get the most out of it.
I want to apologize in advance because i have seen that there is plenty of similar posts like this one, but none of them covers the topics i would like to go through with you hence a new thread; i am as well part of different FB communities but there i haven't found any joy.
Regarding the theory i have a quite deep knowledge about synthesis, in plus i believe that we actually never stop learning and to keep studying remains one of my main focus.

So, the starting point is my Arturia Minibrute 2S: i do not know which function it will have but i want to have it fully integrated in my system and hopefully we'll figure this out together; for a case i purchased a beautiful hand-made 104 hp and what i wanna focus mainly is ambient, drone-ish and glitchy-filled soundscapes, and if you also have tips on how to make generative patches that would be a big plus; if you want to check out what's my idea, you can give a look to some Instagram pages like "anthuriums.sounds", "omricohencomposer", "wickers_portal" and "blankfor.ms".
I would like to skip the VCV rack part as i have tried it and used it (and still do it) and i am looking to have hands-on on a proper, physical system so here my desperate request for help: how would you fill this case?

In my head there are already a few modules that i like and i think they could fit my purpose but having the 2S kinda confuses me on how i can patch them together:
Arbhar, Scion and Harmonaig by Instruo
Plaits, Clouds, Marbles, Stages, Rings, Veils by Mutable Instruments
Morphagene, Mimeophon, Maths, 0-Coast, tELHARMONIC, STO and Richter Wogglebug by Make Noise
Black VCO + Black VCO Expander by Erica Synths

PS: i want the building of my first eurorack case to be a trip and so i want the music to be the same, i am not in a rush and i have a life to reach my goal but i woud like to make wise and well thought purchases where a module does not necessarily need another one in order to sound good!

Edit: i also watch tons of videos on YouTube to help myself out with my continuous research!

Thanks in advance for all the replies; you'll have a beer paid :guinness:

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Agawell
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Re: Another beginner ready to go down the rabbit hole!

Post by Agawell » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:23 am

first of all go to modulargrid.net and create a public rack that you can share here with all the modules that you think you want now in it

and share it here - that means copy and paste the url NOT an image!!

personally I've seen lots of newbie posts identical (or near identical) to this one - I see nothing unique about your situation from your post

you are concentrating too much on 'feature' modules and not enough on the modules that are needed to support them - primarily obvious is a lack of mixing ability - the only mixing you have is in Maths and Veils - not enough - you need mixing for cv (modulation) and audio (pre-effects) and post-effects (or a big mixer with sends)

but it's a plan and as we all know plans are great until you start!!!

initially get a 'minimum viable synth' - a sound source, a modulation source, a sound modifier, a way to listen and a way to play

the way to play is already covered by the sequencer in the minibrute2s
the way to listen may be an external mixer - how are you monitoring the minibrute2s? - but you could just use veils - as a mono only output for now

other than these modules I would add - a quad cascading vca and mi links and kinks

get these modules and play - as you patch you will start to realise what else you actually need as opposed to what you think you want now - try to limit module purchases to at most 1 or 2 per month
Instagram

Utility modules are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the expensive, shiny modules actually shine - and stops them tarnishing too!!!

shize312
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:49 am

Re: Another beginner ready to go down the rabbit hole!

Post by shize312 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:33 am

Hello Agawell, thanks for your reply; i have been surfing the forum pretty much but could not find any useful answer to my doubts, i am sorry for another repeated post.


Agawell wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:23 am
first of all go to modulargrid.net and create a public rack that you can share here with all the modules that you think you want now in it

and share it here - that means copy and paste the url NOT an image!!
About ModularGrid, before to make my own case i would like first to understand which modules do i need to be able to do what i wanna do and about VCAs, Mixers and so on i do not really know how i can use them. Really, i am starting from scratch and them modules and their use confuse me!


Agawell wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:23 am
personally I've seen lots of newbie posts identical (or near identical) to this one - I see nothing unique about your situation from your post

you are concentrating too much on 'feature' modules and not enough on the modules that are needed to support them - primarily obvious is a lack of mixing ability - the only mixing you have is in Maths and Veils - not enough - you need mixing for cv (modulation) and audio (pre-effects) and post-effects (or a big mixer with sends)

but it's a plan and as we all know plans are great until you start!!!

initially get a 'minimum viable synth' - a sound source, a modulation source, a sound modifier, a way to listen and a way to play

the way to play is already covered by the sequencer in the minibrute2s
the way to listen may be an external mixer - how are you monitoring the minibrute2s? - but you could just use veils - as a mono only output for now

other than these modules I would add - a quad cascading vca and mi links and kinks

get these modules and play - as you patch you will start to realise what else you actually need as opposed to what you think you want now - try to limit module purchases to at most 1 or 2 per month
I am aware i am concentrating in too much feature modules, that's why i am looking for some help, in this moment i need someone with a looooooot of patience willing to help me out understanding what i really need to start off and how to use the 2S with it!
About a 'minimum viable synth' i was planning to use the 1st oscillator from the 2S as a first voice, the 2nd as an LFO (this way i will have 3 LFOs and and two envelope generators (ADSR + AD from the 2S) as modulation sources) and get a second voice eg. Erica Synth Black VCO. About the sound modifiers i imagine that Mimeophon or Maths are the way to go?

About the 'way to listen' would i be able to use the 2S?

I will definitely have a look to the modules you suggested though, thanks again!

Edit: thanks to your suggestions my ModularGrid rack started taking shape; i believe that it will change along the way as i am not sure about the Wogglebug and Rings.
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1250998

SJ900
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:27 am

Re: Another beginner ready to go down the rabbit hole!

Post by SJ900 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:59 am

I shall watch this thread with interest as I have also recently got a MiniBrute 2S.

This is what I have ordered so far to go with it
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1234395

The Maths has arrived, and the Batumi will be later this week. Other bits seem to be taking longer

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Agawell
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Re: Another beginner ready to go down the rabbit hole!

Post by Agawell » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:06 am


About ModularGrid, before to make my own case i would like first to understand which modules do i need to be able to do what i wanna do and about VCAs, Mixers and so on i do not really know how i can use them. Really, i am starting from scratch and them modules and their use confuse me!
that's kind of the point - design a case with what you think you want in it - even just add the list from above and then post it - then we can see what you are thinking and hopefully point you in a better direction

I am aware i am concentrating in too much feature modules, that's why i am looking for some help, in this moment i need someone with a looooooot of patience willing to help me out understanding what i really need to start off and how to use the 2S with it!

being aware of this is a good thing - at the very least you haven't just gone and bought a tiny case full of 'feature modules' and spent all your money and have an unplayable synth
About a 'minimum viable synth' i was planning to use the 1st oscillator from the 2S as a first voice, the 2nd as an LFO (this way i will have 3 LFOs and and two envelope generators (ADSR + AD from the 2S) as modulation sources) and get a second voice eg. Erica Synth Black VCO.
I'm not that familiar with the minibrute2s - I have an original - I'm not sure if you can send the vcos out before hitting the filter (for example) - you would have to check the manual
again same with the LFOs - look for specifically labelled output jacks
and for the envelopes - I suspect they are triggered by the minibrute in relation to for example keypresses - not a great deal of use for modulation (but will be useful for opening and closing a vca (or2)
About the sound modifiers i imagine that Mimeophon or Maths are the way to go?
Mimeophon is a sound modifier - Maths is a modulation source

About the 'way to listen' would i be able to use the 2S?
Again - read the minibrute manual - I have a feeling that the audio input on the minibrute will route through the minibrute filter - in which case - you could do that - but you will always be filtering the output with the minibrute

how are you currently monitoring (or intending to monitor) the minibrute?????

mixer/audio interface/headphones/speakers etc
Edit: thanks to your suggestions my ModularGrid rack started taking shape; i believe that it will change along the way as i am not sure about the Wogglebug and Rings.
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1250998
now to look at MG:
I see a single voice (Rings - brilliant module - especially when you feed the 'in' with audio)
a modulation source (Wogglebug - a great module - random is very useful - but as a starter I would go for Maths instead)
a quantizer (may not be required - why do you think you need this?? - using random for v/oct from Wogglebug?)
shades - a really useful module - no matter how big your rack gets
veils and links and kinks - a great utility starter set - especially adding in shades

What are your reservations about Rings and Wogglebug?
I'd want some effects - you mentioned Mimeophon - this is a stereo module

iirc the minibrute is mono and rings is more like dual mono than a stereo module - at least that is how I think of it

Mimeophon may do mono to stereo conversion - ie L in -> L & R out - I'm not sure but you will either want to mix all your mono sources (possibly to stereo with a panning mixer) or to mono (veils or shades) and then output through whatever solution you have for monitoring
Instagram

Utility modules are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the expensive, shiny modules actually shine - and stops them tarnishing too!!!

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Agawell
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Re: Another beginner ready to go down the rabbit hole!

Post by Agawell » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:11 am

SJ900 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:59 am
I shall watch this thread with interest as I have also recently got a MiniBrute 2S.

This is what I have ordered so far to go with it
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1234395

The Maths has arrived, and the Batumi will be later this week. Other bits seem to be taking longer
how are you intending to mix? modulation/audio - I only really see veils - I rarely use the mixer on maths as a basic mixer - much more fun using maths as maths instead of a bunch of utilties - see the illustrated manual for patch ideas!
how are you intending to monitor? mixer/headphones/speakers/audio interface?
Instagram

Utility modules are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the expensive, shiny modules actually shine - and stops them tarnishing too!!!

SJ900
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:27 am

Re: Another beginner ready to go down the rabbit hole!

Post by SJ900 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:41 am

Agawell wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:11 am
SJ900 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:59 am
I shall watch this thread with interest as I have also recently got a MiniBrute 2S.

This is what I have ordered so far to go with it
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1234395

The Maths has arrived, and the Batumi will be later this week. Other bits seem to be taking longer
how are you intending to mix? modulation/audio - I only really see veils - I rarely use the mixer on maths as a basic mixer - much more fun using maths as maths instead of a bunch of utilties - see the illustrated manual for patch ideas!
how are you intending to monitor? mixer/headphones/speakers/audio interface?
To start with, I shall be patching back into the MiniBrute to mix. So I have some options, but not as many as I will eventually need. Sound is via the MiniBrute to the mixing desk and then the speakers - aware that it is only mono for now, but will contemplate better mixing options when my bank account had recovered and I feel the need to go ‘stereo’ Marbles is also on the wish list, but things may change as I get to grips with what I’ve got. Working out what I can and can’t do with a small set-up will be fun, and help me decide on next steps

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Rex Coil 7
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Re: Another beginner ready to go down the rabbit hole!

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:53 am

shize312 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:51 am
Hello everyone, i am a newbie getting - pretty confused - into modular, and here my first message and thanks to the community....

I have spent quite some time studying and looking for advice, suggestions and solutions on i want my first eurorack case to be built to get the most out of it.....

Thanks in advance for all the replies; you'll have a beer paid :guinness:
First up, don't feel alone. I started with synths in 1978, and even with decades of experience it still took me a while to get acquainted with modular synth systems. Especially these modern ones ... there is a shatload of options available today that far exceed the capabilities of the old subtractive synths. Another thing to keep mindful about is if you ask ten people you're going to receive nine (or ten!) different answers ... and this applies to nearly anything and everything involving modular synths. While at first look this may seem like a bad thing, it's actually a good thing. This is because it means there is usually more than one "right" answer to most situations within modular synthesis.

Hang in there ... you're going to experience enormous amounts of frustration now and then ... but know that each of us went through pretty much the same thing in our own personal journeys into modular synthesis.

Lastly, in the face of it all, just remember to ....
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Never Quit, Die Falling Forward
5U PROJECT - (skip pages 4 through 6, boring junk) ... https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... highlight=

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Agawell
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Re: Another beginner ready to go down the rabbit hole!

Post by Agawell » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:08 pm

SJ900 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:41 am
To start with, I shall be patching back into the MiniBrute to mix. So I have some options, but not as many as I will eventually need. Sound is via the MiniBrute to the mixing desk and then the speakers - aware that it is only mono for now, but will contemplate better mixing options when my bank account had recovered and I feel the need to go ‘stereo’
personally I'd just go straight into the mixing desk and cut out going back through the minibrute

I just checked as I wasn't sure - there are 2 audio inputs to the minibrute2s - one is un-effected (Master) and the other is effected (In - goes through the whole signal path of the minibrute) - which you may want - but maybe not all the time!! so you could submix with veils for example

just grab some 1/8->1/4" adapter cables - worst case scenario you need to use the attenuators on maths or veils to reduce the gain

Marbles is also on the wish list, but things may change as I get to grips with what I’ve got. Working out what I can and can’t do with a small set-up will be fun, and help me decide on next steps
It's a journey - and it's yours - enjoy it!
I love Marbles - it is one of my favourite modules
Disting is also a great choice - especially as a way to discover what modules you actually need as opposed to just the ones you want - and with the EX you are not limited to just one at a time - most of the time!!!
Instagram

Utility modules are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the expensive, shiny modules actually shine - and stops them tarnishing too!!!

vrfats
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Posts: 168
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Re: Another beginner ready to go down the rabbit hole!

Post by vrfats » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:15 pm

shize312 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:33 am
Hello Agawell, thanks for your reply; i have been surfing the forum pretty much but could not find any useful answer to my doubts, i am sorry for another repeated post.


Agawell wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:23 am
first of all go to modulargrid.net and create a public rack that you can share here with all the modules that you think you want now in it

and share it here - that means copy and paste the url NOT an image!!
About ModularGrid, before to make my own case i would like first to understand which modules do i need to be able to do what i wanna do and about VCAs, Mixers and so on i do not really know how i can use them. Really, i am starting from scratch and them modules and their use confuse me!


Agawell wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:23 am
personally I've seen lots of newbie posts identical (or near identical) to this one - I see nothing unique about your situation from your post

you are concentrating too much on 'feature' modules and not enough on the modules that are needed to support them - primarily obvious is a lack of mixing ability - the only mixing you have is in Maths and Veils - not enough - you need mixing for cv (modulation) and audio (pre-effects) and post-effects (or a big mixer with sends)

but it's a plan and as we all know plans are great until you start!!!

initially get a 'minimum viable synth' - a sound source, a modulation source, a sound modifier, a way to listen and a way to play

the way to play is already covered by the sequencer in the minibrute2s
the way to listen may be an external mixer - how are you monitoring the minibrute2s? - but you could just use veils - as a mono only output for now

other than these modules I would add - a quad cascading vca and mi links and kinks

get these modules and play - as you patch you will start to realise what else you actually need as opposed to what you think you want now - try to limit module purchases to at most 1 or 2 per month
I am aware i am concentrating in too much feature modules, that's why i am looking for some help, in this moment i need someone with a looooooot of patience willing to help me out understanding what i really need to start off and how to use the 2S with it!
About a 'minimum viable synth' i was planning to use the 1st oscillator from the 2S as a first voice, the 2nd as an LFO (this way i will have 3 LFOs and and two envelope generators (ADSR + AD from the 2S) as modulation sources) and get a second voice eg. Erica Synth Black VCO. About the sound modifiers i imagine that Mimeophon or Maths are the way to go?

About the 'way to listen' would i be able to use the 2S?

I will definitely have a look to the modules you suggested though, thanks again!

Edit: thanks to your suggestions my ModularGrid rack started taking shape; i believe that it will change along the way as i am not sure about the Wogglebug and Rings.
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1250998
I'd recommend getting the Intellijel Quad VCA instead of Veils. I have the Veils and there is no gain knob for the original signal level. This can be important if you want to use a vca to turn down a signal or mangle two CVs together. I use my rings a lot but in general am not the biggest fan of the Mutable instruments style of synthesis I guess.

I generally use clock multipliers / dividers and some kind of shift register random thing in my patches. Logic and utility modules are underrated.

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Agawell
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Re: Another beginner ready to go down the rabbit hole!

Post by Agawell » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:26 pm

Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:53 am
First up, don't feel alone. I started with synths in 1978, and even with decades of experience it still took me a while to get acquainted with modular synth systems. Especially these modern ones ... there is a shatload of options available today that far exceed the capabilities of the old subtractive synths. Another thing to keep mindful about is if you ask ten people you're going to receive nine (or ten!) different answers ... and this applies to nearly anything and everything involving modular synths. While at first look this may seem like a bad thing, it's actually a good thing. This is because it means there is usually more than one "right" answer to most situations within modular synthesis.

Hang in there ... you're going to experience enormous amounts of frustration now and then ... but know that each of us went through pretty much the same thing in our own personal journeys into modular synthesis.
All great advice!!!
especially ask 10 people and get 9 or 10 answers - and they are all right - just different
Most people will recommend modules they have/want - and criticize modules that they don't get on with - human nature
And the frustration - and it's many many causes
Instagram

Utility modules are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the expensive, shiny modules actually shine - and stops them tarnishing too!!!

shize312
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:49 am

Re: Another beginner ready to go down the rabbit hole!

Post by shize312 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 pm

Thanks for all the replies lads, and to helping me clearing up my mind.

@Agawell: about the 2S, what I like is that huge patch bay full of potential, find attached the link to check it out:

https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/Xz3UC ... 970-80.jpg

With the white text over the black background you can see the inputs,in black over a white background are the outputs and in blu you find all the pre-patched sections; you are actually able to brake anything you want and re-connect it in any way you wish; about the filter you should also be able to connect a flying cable to it to disconnect it from its original connection.

About the modules and the reason why I chose them as first, I am following from quite some time a YT channel called “Comparative Irrelevance” where they make periodic episodes showing and exploring patches using ‘just’ 3 modules:



here’s a video featuring the Wogglebug and Rings Working together.
Actually with a deeper research within the forum, your advice and video tutorial I managed to make an euro rack for beginner which I think will covers most of the feature I am looking now.
Regarding the monitoring, at the moment I have just a pair of standard speakers (nothing really special) which will eventually be replaced by a pair of monitor speakers in the near future (most probably the Adam T5V);

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I just purchased MI Rings and Erica Synths Quant... I have to say that I love them little Pico modules!
Next I would go with Wogglebug (or Maths, then?) and Kinks & Links; will the latters cover the features from the ES Pico Multi (Multi CV, clock etc)?

shize312
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:49 am

Re: Another beginner ready to go down the rabbit hole!

Post by shize312 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:49 pm

vrfats wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:15 pm
I'd recommend getting the Intellijel Quad VCA instead of Veils. I have the Veils and there is no gain knob for the original signal level. This can be important if you want to use a vca to turn down a signal or mangle two CVs together. I use my rings a lot but in general am not the biggest fan of the Mutable instruments style of synthesis I guess.

I generally use clock multipliers / dividers and some kind of shift register random thing in my patches. Logic and utility modules are underrated.
Thank for the shout out to Intellijel Quad VCA, I will definitely give it a look!

shize312
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:49 am

Re: Another beginner ready to go down the rabbit hole!

Post by shize312 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:54 pm

Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:53 am
shize312 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:51 am
Hello everyone, i am a newbie getting - pretty confused - into modular, and here my first message and thanks to the community....

I have spent quite some time studying and looking for advice, suggestions and solutions on i want my first eurorack case to be built to get the most out of it.....

Thanks in advance for all the replies; you'll have a beer paid :guinness:
First up, don't feel alone. I started with synths in 1978, and even with decades of experience it still took me a while to get acquainted with modular synth systems. Especially these modern ones ... there is a shatload of options available today that far exceed the capabilities of the old subtractive synths. Another thing to keep mindful about is if you ask ten people you're going to receive nine (or ten!) different answers ... and this applies to nearly anything and everything involving modular synths. While at first look this may seem like a bad thing, it's actually a good thing. This is because it means there is usually more than one "right" answer to most situations within modular synthesis.

Hang in there ... you're going to experience enormous amounts of frustration now and then ... but know that each of us went through pretty much the same thing in our own personal journeys into modular synthesis.

Lastly, in the face of it all, just remember to ....
You are totally right and that’s why I love communities, you need to get out of your comfort zone, understand and accept other’s points of view!
Thanks for the big shot of motivation though; at first getting into euro rack seems overwhelming but then, when you actually get into it, you realize that it’s really overwhelming ah ah, I love it!

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