Cosmotronic Cosmix

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rbhansen
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by rbhansen » Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:46 am

kybernetik wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:51 am
matttech wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:00 am
good question - you're essentially wondering if the aux send - when used post fader - takes into account the left/right balance of a stereo signal?

thinking about it, you'd imagine so - as the signal has already been balanced before hitting the fader (in theory), but I'm not 100% on that
In this module the signal chain goes :

Mute -> (○) -> Fader -> (◘) -> Panning -> (Drive)-> Main volume

So the AUX signal is tapped pre-fader (○), or post-fader (◘), but always before Panning.
My reasoning was that Aux is a mono-bus, so it's tapped before the signal is panned to stereo.

I hope that clears up the signal path
Super-helpful to see the signal path so thanks for sharing that.

Question for you @kybernetik -- can you say anything about levels both with and without drive?

When I first hooked it up I expected output without drive to be the same as output with drive and saturation faders all the way down. But I find that I had to turn the main volume control up more when drive is bypassed.

So...is there a specific setting for the volume control where input level = output level when
* fader set at 0dB and drive bypassed
* fader set at 0dB and drive *not* bypassed, with saturation faders all the way down

I've been setting it by ear which is fine, but was curious if there was a specific position (eg, noon) where gain-staging is 1:1.

Thanks!

kybernetik
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by kybernetik » Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:06 pm

rbhansen wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:46 am

When I first hooked it up I expected output without drive to be the same as output with drive and saturation faders all the way down. But I find that I had to turn the main volume control up more when drive is bypassed.

So...is there a specific setting for the volume control where input level = output level when
* fader set at 0dB and drive bypassed
* fader set at 0dB and drive *not* bypassed, with saturation faders all the way down

I've been setting it by ear which is fine, but was curious if there was a specific position (eg, noon) where gain-staging is 1:1.

Thanks!

Yes good question, the way it works:

Drive bypassed:

Faders go from 0-100, signal goes from off(-90dB) to on (0dB)
So with drive bypassed, the mixer works as a unity gain mixer.



Drive enabled

With the drive high and low faders at 0, the channel faders are roughly 0dB at halfway, marked with the white line. Going above this line means adding extra gain to each channel and pushing into the drive saturation stage. (+6dB and than further into clipping saturation)

If you push up the high or low faders, it adds even more gain, but into that specific frequency band.


So the drive switch changes the modules behaviour dramatically
- Cosmotronic -

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rbhansen
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by rbhansen » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:22 pm

kybernetik wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:06 pm
rbhansen wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:46 am

When I first hooked it up I expected output without drive to be the same as output with drive and saturation faders all the way down. But I find that I had to turn the main volume control up more when drive is bypassed.

So...is there a specific setting for the volume control where input level = output level when
* fader set at 0dB and drive bypassed
* fader set at 0dB and drive *not* bypassed, with saturation faders all the way down

I've been setting it by ear which is fine, but was curious if there was a specific position (eg, noon) where gain-staging is 1:1.

Thanks!

Yes good question, the way it works:

Drive bypassed:

Faders go from 0-100, signal goes from off(-90dB) to on (0dB)
So with drive bypassed, the mixer works as a unity gain mixer.



Drive enabled

With the drive high and low faders at 0, the channel faders are roughly 0dB at halfway, marked with the white line. Going above this line means adding extra gain to each channel and pushing into the drive saturation stage. (+6dB and than further into clipping saturation)

If you push up the high or low faders, it adds even more gain, but into that specific frequency band.


So the drive switch changes the modules behaviour dramatically
Gotcha, thanks!

So just to confirm, output is roughly equivalent between
* Drive Off + Fader all the way up, and
* Drive On + Fader at white line + drive low/high faders all the way down

Just tried it. Sounds ~close but not exact so just wanted to check.

Anyway, all sounds better with drive anyway.

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ferran
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by ferran » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:58 am

Just bought the Cosmix and the Delta-V. Love at first sight. Good relation price quality. Nice modules, at the moment AFAIK the only models of Cosmotronic.
About the Cosmix two things:
1- The overdrive is nice but not to be abused, because distort and altere a lot the mix. On the other hand, it gives to the mix a more rounded, well defined sound. When drive switch on, about 10 % of the sliders way low and high begins to modify the sound quickly.
2- Aux out is nice to play with, sending it to effects modules and catching them again to the main mix.

About the Delta-V, great !!! some many possibilities (including two VCAs !) , only one problem with the sum out, wich is always at a DC level. Don't know why, seems not working. Anyway I don't think to use it, there's a lot of other interesting things to worry about.

Generally speaking, satisfyied with both modules.

kybernetik
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by kybernetik » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:06 pm

ferran wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:58 am
Just bought the Cosmix and the Delta-V. Love at first sight.


About the Delta-V, great !!! some many possibilities (including two VCAs !) , only one problem with the sum out, wich is always at a DC level. Don't know why, seems not working. Anyway I don't think to use it, there's a lot of other interesting things to worry about.

Generally speaking, satisfyied with both modules.
Thanks Ferran, glad you enjoy the modules!

About Delta-v sum output, do you mean there's a DC offset? If the envelopes are not running, the SUM out should be at 0v.
If not there might be some defect, you can send a mail to matthijs -at- cosmotronic.nl, I'll walk you through testing the module, and send you a replacement if needed.
- Cosmotronic -

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ferran
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by ferran » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:30 pm

kybernetik wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:06 pm

About Delta-v sum output, do you mean there's a DC offset? If the envelopes are not running, the SUM out should be at 0v.
Always a steady level of DC 11 v. at the sum out (seen with an oscylloscope), regardless of the signal envelopes outs, level positions, and no matter if there are running in lfo mode or triggered. Probably a shot-circuit with the mains 12v. All other cv functions and knobs work ok.

For sure is not working properly, Thanks for your interest. Maybe I contact thomann.

kybernetik
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by kybernetik » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:10 am

ferran wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:30 pm
Always a steady level of DC 11 v. at the sum out (seen with an oscylloscope), regardless of the signal envelopes outs, level positions, and no matter if there are running in lfo mode or triggered. Probably a shot-circuit with the mains 12v. All other cv functions and knobs work ok.

For sure is not working properly, Thanks for your interest. Maybe I contact thomann.
Ok that's definitely not right, really sorry about that! I'll send you a replacement, I've sent you a PM with the details.
- Cosmotronic -

kybernetik
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by kybernetik » Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:36 am

Here's a techno oriented video demo for Cosmix showing how to overdrive sounds with various sound sources (Bass drum, Clap, Hi-Hats, Elements, Delay) and a 303

- Cosmotronic -

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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by VanEck » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:11 pm

kybernetik wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:36 am
Here's a techno oriented video demo for Cosmix showing how to overdrive sounds with various sound sources (Bass drum, Clap, Hi-Hats, Elements, Delay) and a 303

nice jam. just got my cosmix 2 days ago. i honestly figured i'd be keeping the overdrive at a minimum, as i have a ton of distortion modules already. i mainly just wanted it as a good drum mixer with mutes and a stereo return for reverbs... turns out the overdrive is pretty amazing and it's quickly becoming one of my favorites for adding flavor to my percussion.

love how you can get different timbres out of it depending on how you finesse the individual channels, and the EQ on the main. haven't tried any "no input" mixing or feedback looping yet, but will get there soon, as i'm sure it will sound superb. sort of reminds me of how i used to approach mixing with my old mackie to coax out overdrive, but the cosmix is more versatile.

most definitely my favorite mixer in euro that i've laid hands on since building my rig a decade ago. looking forward to getting a second one soon. likely going to spend some time reviewing it in our next Sysex Dumpster episode.
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johannes
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by johannes » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:24 pm

kybernetik wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:36 am
Here's a techno oriented video demo for Cosmix showing how to overdrive sounds with various sound sources (Bass drum, Clap, Hi-Hats, Elements, Delay) and a 303

sounds nice.
could you also do a demo with more moderate seetngs? :-)
it would be good to hear how the clap and the lke sounds wthout the overdrive… thanks

kybernetik
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by kybernetik » Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:26 am

VanEck wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:11 pm
most definitely my favorite mixer in euro that i've laid hands on since building my rig a decade ago. looking forward to getting a second one soon. likely going to spend some time reviewing it in our next Sysex Dumpster episode.
Wow thanks, great to hear you like it! :party:
johannes wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:24 pm
could you also do a demo with more moderate seetngs? :-)
it would be good to hear how the clap and the lke sounds wthout the overdrive… thanks
Sorry I didn't make the video, it was done by bRz/Chemtales -> soundcloud
- Cosmotronic -

LunaticSound
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by LunaticSound » Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:05 am

Are these inputs AC coupled?
WTB: ARC ANN

kybernetik
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by kybernetik » Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:31 pm

LunaticSound wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:05 am
Are these inputs AC coupled?
Main out is AC coupled, Aux bus is DC coupled
- Cosmotronic -

LunaticSound
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by LunaticSound » Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:13 pm

kybernetik wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:31 pm
LunaticSound wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:05 am
Are these inputs AC coupled?
Main out is AC coupled, Aux bus is DC coupled
Interesting. So you could theoretically mix a few CVs on channels 1-3 and send them out the aux output and use the rest for audio via the main outs?
WTB: ARC ANN

ProgRocket
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by ProgRocket » Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:11 pm

Hi, i received my Cosmix from Schneidersladen. First rough test... should all six channels and faders not have the same loudness? Is it a bug in my unit, that channels 2 and 7 are perceived twice as loud? I have all faders at the middle white line, i patch in the same oscillator out into all inputs - one after the other - and channel 2 and 7 are way louder than the rest. Do channels 2 and 7/8 purposely have 6 db gain or something?

Also the blue light on the main out gets way brighter blue, going along with the louder output.

kybernetik
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by kybernetik » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:50 am

ProgRocket wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:11 pm
Hi, i received my Cosmix from Schneidersladen. First rough test... should all six channels and faders not have the same loudness? Is it a bug in my unit, that channels 2 and 7 are perceived twice as loud? I have all faders at the middle white line, i patch in the same oscillator out into all inputs - one after the other - and channel 2 and 7 are way louder than the rest. Do channels 2 and 7/8 purposely have 6 db gain or something?

Also the blue light on the main out gets way brighter blue, going along with the louder output.
Because of the tolerances of the sliders, there can be a small differences in volume for each channel at the same slider position. That being said, your case does sound out of bounds, I've sent you a PM for more information.
- Cosmotronic -

Black_Materia
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by Black_Materia » Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:56 pm

Question to current owners: Can it do clean sounds as well? I'm looking into this as a mixer for more than just percussion. Can the stereo drive be used for a subtle glue without overly audible diode clipping distortion?

If you keep the fader levels below the line, and use small amounts of the low/High circuit perhaps?.

If anyone feels like doing a little demo, having some sounds on the different inputs, and demonstrating how it sounds:

when all faders are below the 0 db line, with different high and low settings from subtle to mid to high,
and then pushing individual tracks into the drive circuit.

All video's i can find are just pushing everything to 11. Sounds great on drums and agressive material, though.

I really don't understand why some companies have so little demo material available. This would be the first thing i'd link to on my product page.

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pekbro
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Re: Cosmotronic Cosmix

Post by pekbro » Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:12 pm

Thinking of getting a 2nd Cosmix myself. If there is ever a follow-up design, it would be great to be able to chain them
together reserving 1 main output pair for stereo sends possibly.

-Cheers

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