Panharmonium Questions

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The Mule
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Panharmonium Questions

Post by The Mule » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:10 pm

Somebody told me I should check out the Panharmonium the other day, and I've been watching videos on it since then. It seems interesting, but perhaps to best take advantage of what it can do you would need a sampler in your case, right? I imagine you could feed it signal from regular oscillators, etc., but to really get into the idea of "resynthesis" you have to start with something that is not synthesized. Or something like that. Is this an accurate assessment? I haven't delved into sampling within my modular. I suppose I could feed signals from my software sampler or just feed it audio from other outside sources, of course. But I guess my real question is, is the Panharmonium able to do enough interesting things without acoustic source material that it's a worthwhile addition to ones rig? My guess is that it is not, but I'm curious to hear what folks who own the module have to say.

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by mdoudoroff » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:42 pm

As usual, there’s a thread for that: viewtopic.php?t=215459

desolationjones
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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by desolationjones » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:43 pm

I think the PH is much more interesting when used at slower capture rates, or for feedback. If you use it to try and resynthesize complex acoustic material live, you will be disappointed with the sound quality and latency. Treat it more like Clouds and you'll be happy. Or combine it with other live processing to de-emphasize its signature "bad mp3" sound. For example, I've use it with a vocoder to make a pretty cool harmonizer: voice into PH, voice + PH into vocoder. It also is fun to whistle into the PH!

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by The Mule » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:51 pm

desolationjones wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:43 pm
I think the PH is much more interesting when used at slower capture rates, or for feedback. If you use it to try and resynthesize complex acoustic material live, you will be disappointed with the sound quality and latency. Treat it more like Clouds and you'll be happy. Or combine it with other live processing to de-emphasize its signature "bad mp3" sound. For example, I've use it with a vocoder to make a pretty cool harmonizer: voice into PH, voice + PH into vocoder. It also is fun to whistle into the PH!
Interesting. I certainly don't like the sound of "bad mp3". Didn't realize that was its signature sound! Yikes...

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by bemushroomed » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:14 pm

To me it sounds cheap and samey + with unbearable latency that makes it rather useless (to me).

Probably fun to play around with for 2h or so (...and to never come back again, because you're bored of it and you've heard what it has to offer).

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by The Mule » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:29 pm

bemushroomed wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:14 pm
To me it sounds cheap and samey + with unbearable latency that makes it rather useless (to me).

Probably fun to play around with for 2h or so (...and to never come back again, because you're bored of it and you've heard what it has to offer).
"bad mp3" and "cheap and samey." These descriptions are not instilling me with much inspiration or desire to fork over $500. :doh:

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by Devilwidget » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:59 pm

Yeah, neither 'bad mp3' or 'cheap and samey' remotely describe what the PH can do. I suspect people view it that way because its typical use is a little more... esoteric than something like Clouds. It's certainly not an end of chain FX. It is, however, a fantastic tool for analysing and augmenting sonic material with a fair degree of precision.
If it has a signature sound (which I am not sure it does, given you have fairly good control of the rate, waveshape, and density of its vco's), it could probably be described best as 'Morton Subotnik'. I tried to explain the concept of the module to my 3-year old by running an episode of 'Paw Patrol' through it, and my god did it sound just like 'Sliver Apples'.

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by The Mule » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:07 pm

Devilwidget wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:59 pm
Yeah, neither 'bad mp3' or 'cheap and samey' remotely describe what the PH can do. I suspect people view it that way because its typical use is a little more... esoteric than something like Clouds. It's certainly not an end of chain FX. It is, however, a fantastic tool for analysing and augmenting sonic material with a fair degree of precision.
If it has a signature sound (which I am not sure it does, given you have fairly good control of the rate, waveshape, and density of its vco's), it could probably be described best as 'Morton Subotnik'. I tried to explain the concept of the module to my 3-year old by running an episode of 'Paw Patrol' through it, and my god did it sound just like 'Sliver Apples'.
OK, this is more what I was hoping to hear, obviously. And "Morton Subotnik" is certainly more inspiring than "bad mp3"... ;) But as with anything, I guess some folks will gravitate towards it and others won't. Or perhaps, as you say, some won't appreciate it for what it is...

I haven't given much though to the sorts of audio I'd feed into it, but most likely I would run my own vocals through it, as well as guitar and other "woody," acoustic instruments. I'm wondering though what it's like to run VCOs and DCOs through it. Does it do interesting things to sounds that are already "synthesized?"

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by Devilwidget » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:20 pm

Simple waveforms will produce something akin to a frequency shifter or supersaw effect. Though you can control the new pitch entirely independently of the old pitch, so it could equally be used as a harmoniser in this manner. You, of course, get a fair amount more control than those sort of effects typically provide, with the downside being that it is not designed to be a real-time effect in the same way a vocal pedal is, for instance. So the latency people complain about is a real thing, though not something that has ever concerned me (largely because the joy of the module is its compositional scope, not it's capacity as an 'instant X effect' module). Running vocals and other more complex sounds through it is great fun.

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by The Mule » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:25 pm

Cool. I also thought of running mix downs of slow shifting patches, involving many oscillators through it. The sort of music I do (when it comes to the modular) tends to be more towards the textured, ambient, ethereal stuff, and that is what my friend was thinking about when he referred me to this module. For this sort of thing, I imagine latency wouldn't be an issue and perhaps could even be a plus.

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by desolationjones » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:21 pm

The Mule wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:51 pm
desolationjones wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:43 pm
I think the PH is much more interesting when used at slower capture rates, or for feedback. If you use it to try and resynthesize complex acoustic material live, you will be disappointed with the sound quality and latency. Treat it more like Clouds and you'll be happy. Or combine it with other live processing to de-emphasize its signature "bad mp3" sound. For example, I've use it with a vocoder to make a pretty cool harmonizer: voice into PH, voice + PH into vocoder. It also is fun to whistle into the PH!
Interesting. I certainly don't like the sound of "bad mp3". Didn't realize that was its signature sound! Yikes...
"Bad mp3" is only its signature sound because lazy usage of the PH will yield the conclusion that it sounds "cheap and samey" as someone said above. This module is FUCKING BRILLIANT and Rossum's demos just don't show you how that's true. I actually came pretty close to writing "DON'T SELL ME" with sharpie on my PH just in case I ever get some stupid idea to trade it away :lol:

Here's a track with Lyra-8 through Panharmonium with varying feedback, Mangrove on bass, and some flavor from Mysteron in the second half (and too much reverb, forgive me). 0:49-1:14 is JUST the decay of one Lyra note with modulated feedback through R*S ResEq. Those "sad bottle rockets" at the end are fast PH feedback with descending pitch:


And here's an utterly stupid track I made to punish my friend on his birthday. Panharmonium comes in at 0:54; the "melody" of this song is solely clocked PH feedback!

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by desolationjones » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:24 pm

Oh yeah, it's a great additive VCO too because you can save complex spectrums and then choose how many voices to use when replicating them! Only bad thing with VCO usage is it is pretty slow on the FM input, like if you input white noise to FM it's more like warble / tape flutter.

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by Jaypee » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:27 pm

I was a bit disappointed with what I heard but maybe (probably?) I was judging more the 'patcher' than the module.
It's hard to spend that amount of money without being fully convinced please convince me :)

Anyone can share good demos?
Last edited by Jaypee on Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by zengomi » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:30 pm

My current signature piece ('Duress') features Panharmonium being fed one Synth Tech ER370 VCO (doubled via a mult).

Notes sequenced by ER-101, clocked by Marbles.

ER370 is in MorphXY mode. X & Y parameters modulated by ADDAC 506 VC Stochastic Function Generator.

Panharmonium is lightly FM'd by Doepfer A-110-4 (its signal attenuated and offset by Frap 321). Its Mix parameter is modulated slowly by a Batumi channel (itself modulated by a Batumi channel). Its L/R outs go to MN QPAS, which is modulated by DivKid ochd.

This is my first use of Panharmonium. It's doubtful anyone, even Dave R, would recognize its role.

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by Mannstrane » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:58 pm

Jaypee wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:27 pm

Anyone can share good demos?
Panharmonium is awesome. Like talked about before, you want slower sample rates. I use it for pads and it is amazing for that. I like to send a stepped voltage to for octave transposing.

These aren't what I would call good demos, but it shows off the Paharmonium for pads:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B8t-2SVgSkQ ... _copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/p/B-Lg_Y-gTeZ ... _copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/p/B-ZJSIzATWc ... _copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/p/B-rOvQdg7A8 ... _copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CCR0X97Aoz ... _copy_link

There aren't really any good demos that I have found with it. I would never have grabbed one if it wasn't for the pre covid 19 demo room at Analogue Haven.

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by The Mule » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:09 pm

Now I'm getting stoked. Great tracks, everyone. And yes, pads is what I was thinking for it. Mannstrane - I like your style. You're making me want a Plaits too.

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by Mannstrane » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:30 pm

The Mule wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:09 pm
You're making me want a Plaits too.
Thanks! Yeah, get Plaits too and BIA.

My two favs until Virt Iter comes out from Noise Engineering. I was able to play around with this oscillator and it's very cool. The version I heard had a beautiful chorus included in the unit.

Back to Panharmonium.. It's the best way to get auto pads for Eurorack.

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by The Mule » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:43 pm

I sense my bank account is about to take another hit!

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by Devilwidget » Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:33 am

Here is an experiment using Folktek Conduit/Matter into the Panharmonium. The PH is almost completely wet throughout, no other processing or modules were harmed in the making of this.


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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by Bosavi » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:57 am

Hi, I totally agree with the comments of Devilwidget, zengomi and Mannstrane and great example tracks here.
As VCO it is unique in eurorack especially with the "Warped" function, but with live sounds it is also fantastic. For example: with the "Drums" function you can try to resynthesize sounds from percussion modules with RES-4, you can add many textures to VCOs... there are many possibilities.

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by The Mule » Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:36 am

Devilwidget wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:33 am
Here is an experiment using Folktek Conduit/Matter into the Panharmonium. The PH is almost completely wet throughout, no other processing or modules were harmed in the making of this.

Cool track, Devilwidget! I'm officially sold on the Panharmonium. Order has been placed. :zombie:

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by Devilwidget » Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:43 am

The Mule wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:36 am
Devilwidget wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:33 am
Here is an experiment using Folktek Conduit/Matter into the Panharmonium. The PH is almost completely wet throughout, no other processing or modules were harmed in the making of this.

Cool track, Devilwidget! I'm officially sold on the Panharmonium. Order has been placed. :zombie:
Just occurred to me I am lying - there is of course reverb on the track too. But yes, buy the PH, you won't regret it :)

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by Mannstrane » Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:33 pm

Those drones are great DevilWidget.

Here is a clip I did lastnight with the Panharmonium and Odessa: Odd partials panned left Even Partials Right. Fundamental from Odessa fed to Panharmonium.


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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by The Mule » Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:40 am

Cool. Inspiring stuff - thanks for sharing!

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Re: Panharmonium Questions

Post by wavejockey » Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:21 am

i want one too, i want to re-synthesize music/compositions, like orchestral scores
so offline, latency no prob, will be sampling output for further use
triggering will not be (a) clock but a trigger extracted from real music, still figuring that out (how to do that)
-probably slice music and use those (MIDI) phrases as triggers
or maybe use a envfollower that can generate a trigger when passing a threshold

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