"paradigm shift" modules from your experience

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by 22tape » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:20 pm

A specific module wasn't a paradigm shift for me, rather it was the sound of analogue feedback paths, as well as experimenting with clocks and sequencers that brought me to the modular world :guinness:

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by dp4 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:11 am

another vote for matrix mixers.

also bandpass filters are my favorite kinds. many bands.

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by Puscha » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:49 am

monome ansible for me! kria app controlled with a grid has been most immediate, intuitive and musical sequencer I've come across. It makes the Rene 2 and Usta feel slow and clunky by comparison (I ended up selling both to get a second ansible!).

I made a video of a little improvisation to show how playable this is as a sequencer:



What I think really works to its advantage is that a new sequence starts off simple, with pitch and gate coupled, with the ability to decouple and have separate divisions and loop points per parameter (for both CV and gates!) after getting things going. I find it's a lot better, faster and more accurate to enter sequences with a visual grid over trying to dial in a melody with a different knob per step. There's also the ability to save sequences which makes it incredible for deep composition and recall for live performances.

The only thing it's missing is an ability to modulate it, but I'm just waiting for some clever person to write a script for monome norns and crow to become a programmable I/O expander, haha.

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by inoshi » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:19 am

Rainmaker. Didn't even have to think about it. Nothing else comes to mind.

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by ersatzplanet » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:28 am

For me it was Wav players and Granular. I started with a ADDAC101, then got another, then mad a couple of modules using the WaveTrigger PCB from SparkFun. Then I got my first Nebulae v1. Bought another. Got a 4ms STS. Sold one Nebulae and bought a couple of v2 versions. Dismantled the WaveTrigger modules (destined to ba a Mellotron someday), and got a Tesseract Nutella (based on the more powerful SparkFun Tsunami PCB). Basically sold all the VCOs in my system except two AS RS-90's I still have (I mangled the panels drilling holes in them so fell bad selling them). Completely changed the way I use my modular. I make complex timbres, sequences, abstract sounds and more on my Nords or computer, and burn them onto media and play them on the modular. I have tripled the number of filters in my rig.
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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by gringostar » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:38 am

Multiples, specifically Felix since it can output polarized and/or attenuated signals of the original CV. It's a brilliant module that's only 6hp which takes one or two CV signals and then generates 3 or 6 attenuated/polarized versions of them so that one stream of audio gets kind of processed the same way, or a separate stream of audio gets processed inversely.

I really can't recommend it enough if you're looking to expand modulation sources in a rack since it's pretty cheep. It also pairs incredibly well with a module like Lapsus Os (3xMIA would work well to i think) that lets you mix those related modulation sources to generate new ones, all while spending a fraction of what a new modulation module might cost you.

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by SavageMessiah » Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:46 pm

Puscha wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:49 am
monome ansible for me! kria app controlled with a grid has been most immediate, intuitive and musical sequencer I've come across. It makes the Rene 2 and Usta feel slow and clunky by comparison (I ended up selling both to get a second ansible!).

I made a video of a little improvisation to show how playable this is as a sequencer:



What I think really works to its advantage is that a new sequence starts off simple, with pitch and gate coupled, with the ability to decouple and have separate divisions and loop points per parameter (for both CV and gates!) after getting things going. I find it's a lot better, faster and more accurate to enter sequences with a visual grid over trying to dial in a melody with a different knob per step. There's also the ability to save sequences which makes it incredible for deep composition and recall for live performances.

The only thing it's missing is an ability to modulate it, but I'm just waiting for some clever person to write a script for monome norns and crow to become a programmable I/O expander, haha.
You can modulate kria via teletype if you have the ansible hooked to teletype with i2c. I've been thinking about getting an ansible and grid to go with mine but grid is awfully expensive.

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:19 pm

dp4 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:11 am
another vote for matrix mixers.
I can supply the matrix mixers. If anyone needs one, pm. Custom gain ranges + tapers available. Mods please let me know if this is spammy. I'm not sure where to draw the line with being helpful or spammy.
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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by tehyar » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:22 pm

Synovatron CV Tools, for many of the same reasons Blinds was mentioned. Really turned on the lights regarding cv mixing, offsetting, attenuating. The visual feedback is enormously helpful. The Comic Sans font is much less enlightening. :hihi:

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by Puscha » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:30 pm

SavageMessiah wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:46 pm
Puscha wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:49 am
monome ansible for me! kria app controlled with a grid has been most immediate, intuitive and musical sequencer I've come across. It makes the Rene 2 and Usta feel slow and clunky by comparison (I ended up selling both to get a second ansible!).

I made a video of a little improvisation to show how playable this is as a sequencer:



What I think really works to its advantage is that a new sequence starts off simple, with pitch and gate coupled, with the ability to decouple and have separate divisions and loop points per parameter (for both CV and gates!) after getting things going. I find it's a lot better, faster and more accurate to enter sequences with a visual grid over trying to dial in a melody with a different knob per step. There's also the ability to save sequences which makes it incredible for deep composition and recall for live performances.

The only thing it's missing is an ability to modulate it, but I'm just waiting for some clever person to write a script for monome norns and crow to become a programmable I/O expander, haha.
You can modulate kria via teletype if you have the ansible hooked to teletype with i2c. I've been thinking about getting an ansible and grid to go with mine but grid is awfully expensive.
Yes I have read about the teletype support for ansible and grid, I've been curious and intrigued but I really don't think teletype work flow would be for me.

The grid is expensive, but it is well well worth it! They are solidly made and make for a fantastic controller and sequencer. Price wise it's comparable to Frap Tools Usta, but it's a comparably serious sequencer, and I think a it's so much more playable and fun than Usta.

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by kesserich » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:52 pm

Puscha wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:30 pm
Yes I have read about the teletype support for ansible and grid, I've been curious and intrigued but I really don't think teletype work flow would be for me.

The grid is expensive, but it is well well worth it! They are solidly made and make for a fantastic controller and sequencer. Price wise it's comparable to Frap Tools Usta, but it's a comparably serious sequencer, and I think a it's so much more playable and fun than Usta.
I used to own both teletype and ansible. I have no regrets buying those modules back in the day as i agree they are a powerful pair. That said, kria has serious wholes in its functionality. For instance, it took the community(monome itself had already moved on to building new things) years to finally implement note tie and last i heard the implementation was still lack luster.

Eventually, i replaced ansible with vector and kept teletype for algo stuff. Kria had tremendous potential but it never delivered. Vector is already there.

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by forrest » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:02 pm

The monome stuff is awesome if you don't mind implementing functionality yourself. I wrote a custom firmware for their meadowphysics module in C that utilized the 128 grid. It was a lot of fun but dang a lot of work too.. The grid interfaces with Max4Live / Max really nicely so you can use it that way too. Norns has taken the grid usefulness up a notch as you can write norns apps in lua so thats generated a lot of interest/apps. There is a $200 norns diy kit you can get as well. The grid/arc are REALLY solid and well built. Teletype + Just friends(Mannequins) + crow + Norns + 128 grid and/or arc is the "standard" setup, lots of i2c stuff going on there, you can use just friends w/ teletype/crow/norns as a polyphonic synth over i2c..

All that said I hate looking at screens so I got rid of all of those things and went more in the 1 knob per function direction with a much larger rack..

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by nomass » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:51 pm

I just got a Joranalogue Compare 2 and comparators are amazing. All lfo’s can be synced! Plus you can do 10 billion things with a simple triangle. I’m still learning it but it promises to be a very powerful module.

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by Puscha » Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:02 am

kesserich wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:52 pm
That said, kria has serious wholes in its functionality. For instance, it took the community(monome itself had already moved on to building new things) years to finally implement note tie and last i heard the implementation was still lack luster.
Interesting that you say that. I've been using kria for over 3 years now and find it to be fully featured and don't have any issues with functionality. Note tie (which has been there since I got mine early 2017) can be turned on and off easily, but because configuring it relies on setting some abstract shapes from dim (off) to bright (on), and there's a bunch of other sync options, I think there's a lot of confusion around setting this up. You definitely need to refer to the manual to know which one is which (though they're generally more set and forget anyway). I've started working on a video tutorial that gives and in depth look at all of kria's features and explains how the configuration works.

Also, I wouldn't say that monome relies on the community while working on other things, more so that they work with the community. They don't have that many current products available, and I've seen few companies put so much work into pre-existing products (of course the community participation helps), especially when considering that they are open sourced.

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by Hazza26 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:01 am

GryphonP3 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:53 am
Complex switches. All of my CV gets multed to sequential switches matrixes No matter what so I can use switched versions of it whenever i want with turing machine logical outputs driving the switching
This is new concept to me, sounds amazing. What switches do you use? Would love to understand the application of this, what kind of CV signals are you switching? Thanks :)

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by kesserich » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:44 am

Puscha wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:02 am


Interesting that you say that. I've been using kria for over 3 years now and find it to be fully featured and don't have any issues with functionality. Note tie (which has been there since I got mine early 2017) can be turned on and off easily, but because configuring it relies on setting some abstract shapes from dim (off) to bright (on), and there's a bunch of other sync options, I think there's a lot of confusion around setting this up. You definitely need to refer to the manual to know which one is which (though they're generally more set and forget anyway). I've started working on a video tutorial that gives and in depth look at all of kria's features and explains how the configuration works.

Also, I wouldn't say that monome relies on the community while working on other things, more so that they work with the community. They don't have that many current products available, and I've seen few companies put so much work into pre-existing products (of course the community participation helps), especially when considering that they are open sourced.
The history of kria note tie is pretty long and complicated and disappointing which is why i am no doubt coming off as a bit salty. Check out the thread below for relevant details:
https://llllllll.co/t/kria-how-to-creat ... s/12164/32

Basically, monome advertised that kria had note tie. It did not. Eventually a kind individual from the community wrote some code to implement it. It was not well written and did not function at as advertised.
https://llllllll.co/t/kria-how-to-creat ... es/12164/6

A bunch of times goes by and another individual proposes another solution. This one was bug free but in my opinion was a pretty lack luster implementation. https://llllllll.co/t/kria-how-to-creat ... =kesserich

I write software for a living. When I realized that monome was depending on the community to finishing building their product and that those contributors weren't event writing tests, I sold the thing. Obviously, i'm not going to blame volunteers for producing substandard work. The responsibility must lie with the company. I think culturally they just prefer to create new products over finishing the released ones. It's a shame because I think kria had a tremendous amount of potential.

Vector by contrast is tight. It does what it advertises and the five12 guy obviously knows how to code.

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by GryphonP3 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:47 am

Hazza26 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:01 am
GryphonP3 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:53 am
Complex switches. All of my CV gets multed to sequential switches matrixes No matter what so I can use switched versions of it whenever i want with turing machine logical outputs driving the switching
This is new concept to me, sounds amazing. What switches do you use? Would love to understand the application of this, what kind of CV signals are you switching? Thanks :)
2x WMD Sequential Switch Matrix And RYO Paths. I make pretty complex dark psychedelic stuff so heavy modulation is a big thing in a lot of my sounds, trying to make parts sound like evolving entities. So with one sound I will usually have at least 4-8 things being modulated - LFO rates/shapes/clocks triggering S&Hs/wavetable positions/FM amounts/Pitch on carrier&modulator oscillator in FM patch/division of clock triggering the switch to step in the first place/zone,delay time,repeat &mix on a mimeophon .... it goes on and on and on what could be modulated
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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by electricanada » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:30 pm

Ras Thavas wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:39 pm
The Cocoquantus is indeed a magical box in my experience. The Quantussy, the center 5 oscillator complex modulation source, is deep and musical. It should also be mentioned that the delays, while being lo-fi, sound great as well. I love to see both broken out into eurorack modules in the Mobenthey line.
You can patch program the quantussys in euro.
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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by Hazza26 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:24 pm

GryphonP3 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:47 am
2x WMD Sequential Switch Matrix And RYO Paths. I make pretty complex dark psychedelic stuff so heavy modulation is a big thing in a lot of my sounds, trying to make parts sound like evolving entities. So with one sound I will usually have at least 4-8 things being modulated - LFO rates/shapes/clocks triggering S&Hs/wavetable positions/FM amounts/Pitch on carrier&modulator oscillator in FM patch/division of clock triggering the switch to step in the first place/zone,delay time,repeat &mix on a mimeophon .... it goes on and on and on what could be modulated
Thanks for the detailed explanation, getting my head round it now! 'Evolving entities' sounds a lot like the sci-fi elements in my music too :). So you pile a load of CV sources into the inputs and some destinations to the outputs, then setup 'scenes' (if that's the right word) to route certain inputs to outputs.. then use a clock trigger to step through them, resulting in instant glitch mayhem. Oh wow, this is opening up some exciting possibilities.. thank you :tu:

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by lisa » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:13 pm

Instruō Harmonàig. All other chord solutions in eurorack that I’ve tried has been quite awkward. Harmonàig makes it smooth.
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New track! Drum synthesis heavy, melodic piece where Instruō harmonàig is doing the chords. 🐡


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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by Gringo Starr » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:34 pm

ersatzplanet wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:28 am
For me it was Wav players and Granular. I started with a ADDAC101, then got another, then mad a couple of modules using the WaveTrigger PCB from SparkFun. Then I got my first Nebulae v1. Bought another. Got a 4ms STS. Sold one Nebulae and bought a couple of v2 versions. Dismantled the WaveTrigger modules (destined to ba a Mellotron someday), and got a Tesseract Nutella (based on the more powerful SparkFun Tsunami PCB). Basically sold all the VCOs in my system except two AS RS-90's I still have (I mangled the panels drilling holes in them so fell bad selling them). Completely changed the way I use my modular. I make complex timbres, sequences, abstract sounds and more on my Nords or computer, and burn them onto media and play them on the modular. I have tripled the number of filters in my rig.
Very cool. I can totally relate to this. It’s an approach I’ve been considering diving into further. I’ve been contemplating going on a filter frenzy myself for these reasons. Do you still use the ADDAC 101?
Last edited by Gringo Starr on Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by starthief » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:12 pm

Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:21 am
Comb filters. Are they a filter or a delay? Why do we use short delays to make Karplus-Strong patches? This whole approach made me realize how we mistakenly tend to think of filters as "something that cuts frequencies" more than we think of them as a space inside which sound lives, or instrument bodies that can resonate. To make things more specific: the Rossum Morpheus. Not so much a filter, as much as a mutable resonant body. You could also think of it as a convolver (I know it's not really a convolver).
Interesting. I'm watching DivKid's noise shaping video on the Morpheus and there are definitely some cool things going on there -- it does often sound very physical.

The impression I got of Morpheus is it would be very easy to get completely lost in choice paralysis due to the mind-numbing number of cubes to choose from. Is it like that in practice, or do you find yourself just randomly picking something and running with it, or do you have a few favorites for specific purposes?

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by Puscha » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:09 am

kesserich wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:44 am
Puscha wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:02 am


Interesting that you say that. I've been using kria for over 3 years now and find it to be fully featured and don't have any issues with functionality. Note tie (which has been there since I got mine early 2017) can be turned on and off easily, but because configuring it relies on setting some abstract shapes from dim (off) to bright (on), and there's a bunch of other sync options, I think there's a lot of confusion around setting this up. You definitely need to refer to the manual to know which one is which (though they're generally more set and forget anyway). I've started working on a video tutorial that gives and in depth look at all of kria's features and explains how the configuration works.

Also, I wouldn't say that monome relies on the community while working on other things, more so that they work with the community. They don't have that many current products available, and I've seen few companies put so much work into pre-existing products (of course the community participation helps), especially when considering that they are open sourced.
The history of kria note tie is pretty long and complicated and disappointing which is why i am no doubt coming off as a bit salty. Check out the thread below for relevant details:
https://llllllll.co/t/kria-how-to-creat ... s/12164/32

Basically, monome advertised that kria had note tie. It did not. Eventually a kind individual from the community wrote some code to implement it. It was not well written and did not function at as advertised.
https://llllllll.co/t/kria-how-to-creat ... es/12164/6

A bunch of times goes by and another individual proposes another solution. This one was bug free but in my opinion was a pretty lack luster implementation. https://llllllll.co/t/kria-how-to-creat ... =kesserich

I write software for a living. When I realized that monome was depending on the community to finishing building their product and that those contributors weren't event writing tests, I sold the thing. Obviously, i'm not going to blame volunteers for producing substandard work. The responsibility must lie with the company. I think culturally they just prefer to create new products over finishing the released ones. It's a shame because I think kria had a tremendous amount of potential.

Vector by contrast is tight. It does what it advertises and the five12 guy obviously knows how to code.
Right, I didn't quite get what you meant by note-tie (thinking it was regarding the entering of notes, not pulse divisions). I actually really like this feature functionally and never saw it as an issue, but I can definitely understand how it would be desirable and annoying not to be there for others. It is a shame that it wasn't addressed by monome (though I wonder how many people spoke up about it as an issue to them? I don't see any posts from them in that thread, but yes that's beside the point anyway).

I totally get your issue, but the "focus on new products over finishing released ones" doesn't sound right to me, as they have released so very few products anyway. I think the community contribution aspect is a big part of their philosophy (the resources and "studies" put out that teach people how to code norns and crow using lua is evidence of this, even teletype encourages new people to try learning basic coding), which I really like, but it's not great for people just wanting to buy something more or less in its final form.

Never tried Vector, and would be interested to try one someday, but kria really does it for me. I don't feel like there's anything missing for my uses!

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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by Paranormal Patroler » Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:16 am

starthief wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:12 pm
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:21 am
Comb filters. Are they a filter or a delay? Why do we use short delays to make Karplus-Strong patches? This whole approach made me realize how we mistakenly tend to think of filters as "something that cuts frequencies" more than we think of them as a space inside which sound lives, or instrument bodies that can resonate. To make things more specific: the Rossum Morpheus. Not so much a filter, as much as a mutable resonant body. You could also think of it as a convolver (I know it's not really a convolver).
Interesting. I'm watching DivKid's noise shaping video on the Morpheus and there are definitely some cool things going on there -- it does often sound very physical.

The impression I got of Morpheus is it would be very easy to get completely lost in choice paralysis due to the mind-numbing number of cubes to choose from. Is it like that in practice, or do you find yourself just randomly picking something and running with it, or do you have a few favorites for specific purposes?
I think both the design of the module and the choice, and naming, of the filters point to a very particular use, which seems rather obvious to me at least. You can of course choose not to use them in the prescribed manner, but the fact that you can save your own lists is at least indicative of how it's expected of you to curate their use in order to optimize what will work for you either in live situation or in the studio. Hence, when I read the complaints about not being able to morph between filters I dismissed them as missing the point. Albeit, yes, I get why people wish that option was there. I mostly bought the filter to use for physical modeling purposes, and I believe that it was meant to be used for exactly that. Hence when I see filters titled "violin" or "strings" or "piano" that's my starting point when I'm trying to replicate these sound territories. Similarly, I find that the parameters which are available do invite you to experiment, but mostly beg you to think of how you'd implement them in a physical modeling patch. Another thing pointing towards this is how each axis has an attenuverting possibility, which is exactly what you'd need when you're mapping each parameter to a user controlled action: pressure might decrease X while increasing Y.

But maybe I'm just biased!

The Morpheus came up during my search for a filter that would cover my need for instrument bodies, and there were only some very complex (and somewhat obscure) options out there. Convolution notwithstanding of course. And lo and behold, I was pointed to the Morpheus and it covers all the requirements ... what's the chance of that being a coincidence? I do firmly believe that the design thinking was at least informed by this application (re: solving this type of problem that I run into), but I have not confirmed that with Rossum yet*. In the meantime, I was disappointed that you cannot design your own cubes, but after reading the topic, and reading the manual, I get why it's not the case, and frankly I have not used half of what's in there yet, so it's not as if I've pushed the module to its limits so that I'd need my custom designed filters.

Hope the above tangent answers your question.

For me, this quest, and the answer that Morpheus brings, really change my perspective of what filters are and what role they play. And being able to jump back and forth between these paradigms, even in in a non-physical modeling patch, e.g. when I'm using the QPas on a completely different setting as a stereo filter for a full mix, makes me think differently of how I patch, how I tweak, and what I expect of filters.


*I really wanna talk to him in person about this :hihi:
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Re: "paradigm shift" modules from your experience

Post by starthief » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:52 am

Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:16 am
Hope the above tangent answers your question.
It does, thanks! Excellent post :tu:

(And now that I glance over the manual and look at some of the cube categories and descriptions, that does mesh pretty well with your take on it, and the module as a whole makes a bit more sense.)

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