Attenuverter

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jebusrice
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Attenuverter

Post by jebusrice » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:24 am

Hi! Fairly simple question, is there anything like this in a more compact package: 8 attenuverters in 12 hp.

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/mmi-modular-octaverter

Thanks!

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lisa
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by lisa » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:32 am

New track! Drum synthesis heavy, melodic piece where Instruō harmonàig is doing the chords. 🐡


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jebusrice
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by jebusrice » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:03 am

Exactly what I'd hoped for with some extras, perfect thank you!

philipdeman
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by philipdeman » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:06 am

Is the Levit8 still the only module that combines 8 attenuators with inversion and 2 x gain (or more) into a 10HP-ish package?

I don't even really care about the small footprint, but it seems way more difficult than it should be to find modules with 6-8 simple CV-modulators that combine attenuation/amplification/10V offset in an affordable and ergonomic package. Most manufacturers seem to go straight for high-density VCAs, but the voltage control quickly adds to the price tag, unless you go for VCAs without knobs such as the Doepfer octal VCA, but that is not at all useful for finetuning sweet spots on control voltages. Sure, there's a lot of module combinations like 2 x MI Shades, HN 3xMIA or Intellijel Triatt/Quadratt, which all seem like great little modules but do not offer amplification I believe. Intellijel Duatt is almost a great compromise, but it only offers 2 attenuverters, of which only 1 has a gain switch.

The Levit8 ticks all the boxes of attenuversion, amplification and 10V offset generator but I would prefer if there were some alternatives, especially given the wobbly knobs on the Levit8. It's more than 4 years since it was released, surely there's something else by now that offers the same functionality with better build quality?

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lisa
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by lisa » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:18 am

Wobbly knobs isn't necessarily an indication of bad build quality, is it?
New track! Drum synthesis heavy, melodic piece where Instruō harmonàig is doing the chords. 🐡


Arneb
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by Arneb » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:25 am

There's the Hinton Trimmer, but it's 14HP. Or the Mazzatron GainOffsetMix, but it's 4 channels only. I suppose that if I really needed more than 4 channels of gain >1 attenuversion that badly and it wasn't a set-and-forget situation I'd bite the bullet and go for the former.

Well, or you start looking into ways to abuse preamp modules...

philipdeman
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by philipdeman » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:51 am

Forgot about the Hinton, that's probably the best alternative there is right now, but quite a bit more pricey. Appreciate the suggestion

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deftinwulf
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by deftinwulf » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:51 am

As a single module, I don't know of anything other than what was mentioned by others already.

But if you have power headers to spare, you can do 8x attenuverters in 8hp by getting 4x 2hp Avert: https://www.twohp.com/modules/avert

philipdeman
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by philipdeman » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:01 am

Good call about the 2HP, but the Avert does not seem to provide additional gain. Neither does the 2HP VCA apparently. Bummer

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deftinwulf
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by deftinwulf » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:22 pm

philipdeman wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:01 am
Good call about the 2HP, but the Avert does not seem to provide additional gain. Neither does the 2HP VCA apparently. Bummer
Most attenuators/attenuverters are not going to provide additional gain, AFAIK. That seems to be an uncommon feature, generally.

RYO Ampmix, if you can find one, is an attenuator/cascading mixer that provides 2x gain per channel (and can cascade that multiplication of gain through the channels, for up to 16x gain when chaining all 4), but it doesn't invert.
Last edited by deftinwulf on Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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lisa
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by lisa » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:28 pm

From the LEVIT8 product copy: "8 channels of attenuate or gain up to ~2x"
New track! Drum synthesis heavy, melodic piece where Instruō harmonàig is doing the chords. 🐡


flashheart
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by flashheart » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:13 pm

philipdeman wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:06 am
... but it seems way more difficult than it should be to find modules with 6-8 simple CV-modulators that combine attenuation/amplification/10V offset in an affordable and ergonomic package.
Why is this 'more difficult than it should be'? It's a very niche use case. 8 channels of amplification, how often do we need that? 8 x 10V offsets? It seems that some euro makers have decided that CV signals should use the full 20V range, despite the fact that this is at the limit of what a 12v opamp can handle. So now we need 10v ofsets everywhere :despair: There was a reason when Euro started that audio was 10v p-p and CVs were specced the same...
Amplification can be achieved by multing a signal to more than one channel of a mixer.
Anyway this module exits and does what you want, there doesn't necessarily need to be 50 modules for every function :)
I'm not buying a maths though, not my idea of fun...

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forrest
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by forrest » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:15 pm


transistorresistor
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by transistorresistor » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:28 pm

lisa wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:18 am
Wobbly knobs isn't necessarily an indication of bad build quality, is it?
I dont have experience w the module in question, but generally speaking, it can be an indication of poor design:

if you have a "wobbly knob" on a pot that has a bushing, this is the regular "large" pots you see on stuff held to the front panel with a nut, the wobble is inside the assembly of the pot and thats just a function of the manufacture of the pot and it is what it is.

trimmer pots however, which are pretty popular in eurorack as the "little" pots that usually dont get knobs on them, they are often bushingless and if they are allowed to "wobble" enough through the hole in the front panel, this has the potential to stress the solder joint on the pcb and can lead to failures because when those "wobble" they arent doing it inside a bushing holding the unit to the panel, they are wobbling directly at the pcb, so this is poor design.

just a hypothetical thought to your question.

philipdeman
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by philipdeman » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:28 am

flashheart wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:13 pm
philipdeman wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:06 am
... but it seems way more difficult than it should be to find modules with 6-8 simple CV-modulators that combine attenuation/amplification/10V offset in an affordable and ergonomic package.
Why is this 'more difficult than it should be'? It's a very niche use case. 8 channels of amplification, how often do we need that? 8 x 10V offsets? It seems that some euro makers have decided that CV signals should use the full 20V range, despite the fact that this is at the limit of what a 12v opamp can handle. So now we need 10v ofsets everywhere :despair: There was a reason when Euro started that audio was 10v p-p and CVs were specced the same...
Amplification can be achieved by multing a signal to more than one channel of a mixer.
Anyway this module exits and does what you want, there doesn't necessarily need to be 50 modules for every function :)
More difficult than I feel it should be for a simple combination of rather vanilla functions, I guess. I find myself needing a lot of amplification when using envelopes to modulate all the inputs on several Verbos and R*S modules, for example, or to boost the level of the 17 outputs of the Vector Space, to name but a few cases.

And while I don't need 50 modules to choose from, I do find it a bit odd that among all the manufacturers working in eurorack these days, there are so few that offer affordable multi-channel attenuverters with amplification, and I find it a bit disappointing that the one with the best specs for my purposes has been criticised by many for less than optimal build quality/design. (The issue with the LEVIT8 appears to be due to a design compromise for the purpose of HP optimization. I recall the designer of LEVIT8 mentioning somewhere that they had gone through 4 models before settling on the model with the 'least wobbly' knobs, the remaining wobbliness being due to the fact that they could not fix the pots with nuts because of the panel layout.)

So that's why I raised the question of alternatives to LEVIT8 now that we're 4+ years after it was first released, is all.

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EATyourGUITAR
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:17 am

I never use attenuverters. zero is a maybe. I use inverters and attenuators. if I need inversion I go through the invert module. if I need attenuation, I don't. in the old days, this is how it was always done. some hipster with a latte decided that this was inferior. so now attenuverters are the new religion. good luck finding zero. you turn a professional tool into a toy. they are more useful when you know %100 that you want a built in attenverter on your VCA for example. if you have envelopes modulating something, the attenuverter is definitely an upgrade. but that is such a narrow use case. and people are not talking about having it built in to the cv input on some specific module. they want free standing attenuverters 0 attenuators anywhere in the system as if they completely replace attenuators and add features but they don't.

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/malekko-h ... invert-mix

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/steady-st ... quad-atten

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/steady-state-fate-s-p-o
WWW.EATYOURGUITAR.COM <---- MY DIY STUFF

mrgrimm
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by mrgrimm » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:26 am

Another thing to consider is that with something like the 2hp Avert you only have half the range for attenuation, from 12 o'clock to 5, if i'm not mistaken.

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far
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Re: Attenuverter

Post by far » Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:26 am

EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:17 am
I never use attenuverters. zero is a maybe. I use inverters and attenuators. if I need inversion I go through the invert module. if I need attenuation, I don't. in the old days, this is how it was always done. some hipster with a latte decided that this was inferior. so now attenuverters are the new religion. good luck finding zero. you turn a professional tool into a toy.

Yeah nah, pass me the latte big fella.

I'm always attenuverters over attenuators.

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Re: Attenuverter

Post by kay_k » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:57 am

philipdeman wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:01 am
Good call about the 2HP, but the Avert does not seem to provide additional gain. Neither does the 2HP VCA apparently. Bummer
I've tried 2x gain in the WK2 but it just feels very flimsy on a 2HP module with trimmer pots. So I went with -1 to +1 range.
It would be extremely easy to change the module for someone with a little soldering skills. I bet this is also true for the 2HP Avert.

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