Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

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GregIcky
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Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by GregIcky » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:20 pm

Hey there brothers and sisters!

I've got a good amount of HP still empty in one of my 2 cases. There are 3 module types that I don't currently own.

Sample and Hold
Noise
Quantizer

The only thing I have that does S&H is the Kermit MKIII. But I've got no noise source for it. I do have a Wogglebug and/or I can use another Kermit channel set to random to send voltages to the S&H, but I'm thinking a proper noise and a proper S&H is something that every rack should have.

Also, I have no Quantizer module.

I'm wondering what (specific modules) people are using that they like? Seems like these 3 modules are somewhat related kind of as they can be used together. But they also have other specific uses when used on their own (kind of a meaningless statement, IDK what I'm talking about).

What do you guys use? What do you like? Any module were a bonus feature makes it the perfect thing for you? Any quantizers that stand above the rest? What are some of the things where a quantizer is absolutely necessary??? Anyone end up surprised by a one that took things "to a whole 'nother level?"

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by Datum » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:27 pm

I personally really like the Zlob Entropy as a small S&H and noise source (white, pink, brown). It's only 3HP.

For a quantizer.... there are many choices and different ways to go on that front. As far as something that took things to a whole 'nother level, ornament and crime is a great quantizer that can take you to many, many, many places beyond simple quantization.

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:48 pm

Disting has sample hold and quantizer combined in one preset. You change scales on the menu. Also see Brain seed. uScale. Barton. Pico Quant. Noise is not required. If you feed a VCO into the sample hold you will get random notes as long as the clock is not audio rates. This can be solved by one module. If you want noise anyway that is hard to say. Depends if you want random LFO, white noise, random gates. Depends if you want something 2HP 4HP 8HP. Check ultra random analog. Check the wogglebug. Zlob entropy is great. I have A-118 and MFOS noise. I can make pseudo white noise by using the matrix mixer in a FM matrix with analog VCO's. Are you making drum sounds or wind sounds? Or you simply want to patch the noise with the sample hold?
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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by GregIcky » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:57 pm

EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:48 pm
Disting has sample hold and quantizer combined in one preset. You change scales on the menu. Also see Brain seed. uScale. Barton. Pico Quant. Noise is not required. If you feed a VCO into the sample hold you will get random notes as long as the clock is not audio rates. This can be solved by one module. If you want noise anyway that is hard to say. Depends if you want random LFO, white noise, random gates. Depends if you want something 2HP 4HP 8HP. Check ultra random analog. Check the wogglebug. Zlob entropy is great. I have A-118 and MFOS noise. I can make pseudo white noise by using the matrix mixer in a FM matrix with analog VCO's. Are you making drum sounds or wind sounds? Or you simply want to patch the noise with the sample hold?
I'd like to be able to make cymbal sounds, explosion sounds, add crunch to drums.... not just use the noise for random sequences using S&H.

I've wondered if you could use a VCO to get pseudo noise. I know the Shapeshifter has a few noise wavetables but they don't sound like noise.

Wind sounds would be cool, not like "woodwind" instruments per say. More like wind blowing past blown out buildings in an apocalyptic wasteland. :evil:

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by GregIcky » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:00 pm

I read something about using noise as the base sound of a patch. Thought that sounded fun. I'd like to see how different flavors would sound paired with my Plankton Nutone Distortion.

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:04 pm

Actual wind is a filter over white noise. You can modulate the filter to get the sound of wind blowing faster. The random modulations for that patch are %100 essential to be convincing. Wind wind instrument sounds use filtered white noise to simulate the breath component. Synthesizers use white noise to mix back in with the VCO's for that airy sound. You also use white noise as FM on a VCO or filter. Drum sounds are more commonly done with some square wave chaos circuit. Any LFSR based noise circuit will work. There are modules specifically designed as some clone of some component of a vintage 808 drum machine or a prophet 5 etc.. they are all available in eurorack.
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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by megarat » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:12 pm

These modules are basic building blocks, but they are frequently used together or as part of larger, more multi-functional modules. I recommend thinking about your own personal workflow and how you would prefer to use these kinds of modules: on their own, or as part of larger modules, with more functionality.

Personally, I gravitate toward basic tools myself, so I tend to use:

— Noise: SSF Quantum Rainbow 2
— Quantizer: Doepfer A-156
— Sample/track and hold: Ladik C-310

That said, the Doepfer A-156 quantizer has a sort of built-in sample-and-hold by way of the “trigger in” jack, and I also have a XAOC Samara II, which has sample-and-hold as one of its modes, so this functionality is well-represented in my rack. Screw VCAs, you can never have too many sample-and-holds.

A last note on “noise”: this can mean an audio source, to use when sound-sculpting, or it can mean a source of random voltages, which you use for modulation. With a sample and hold, you can use audio-rate noise for modulation, but you can’t necessarily use all random voltages for audio. I already mentioned the Quantum Rainbow 2, which I mostly use for audio noise, but w/r/t random voltage sources I also have a Turing Machine Mk.2 with expanders, a Transient Modules 4R, a Doepfer A-149-1 and A-149-2, and various sequencers that can generate random voltages.

I find that I also use lag/slew limiters with these kinds of modules, especially random, so I recommend making sure that you’re covered on that front as well.
Last edited by megarat on Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by GregIcky » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:30 pm

megarat wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:12 pm
These modules are basic building blocks, but they are frequently used together or as part of larger, more multi-functional modules. I recommend thinking about your own personal workflow and how you would prefer to use these kinds of modules: on their own, or as part of larger modules, with more functionality.

Personally, I gravitate toward basic tools myself, so I tend to use:

— Noise: SSF Quantum Rainbow 2
— Quantizer: Doepfer A-156
— Sample/track and hold: Ladik C-310

That said, the Doepfer A-156 quantizer has a sort of built-in sample-and-hold by way of the “trigger in” jack, and I also have a XAOC Samara II, which has sample-and-hold as one of its modes, so this functionality is well-represented in my rack. Screw VCAs, you can never have too many sample-and-holds.

A last note on “noise”: this can mean an audio source, to use when sound-sculpting, or it can mean a source of random voltages, which you use for modulation. With a sample and hold, any “noise” can be used for modulation, but not necessarily the other way around. I already mentioned the Quantum Rainbow 2, which I mostly use for audio noise, but w/r/t random voltage sources I also have a Turing Machine Mk.2 with expanders, a Transient Modules 4R, a Doepfer A-149-1 and A-149-2, and various quantizers that can generate random voltages.

I find that I also use lag/slew limiters with these kinds of modules, especially random, so I recommend making sure that you’re covered on that front as well.
This "... basic building blocks, but they are frequently used together or as part of larger, more multi-functional modules..." is pretty much what I was thinking. The SFF specially is something I've been wondering about.

The only lag/slew I've got right now is Maths. I know there's a bunch out there. WMD mini slew or some such thing....

Did not know that quantizers can generate random voltages... but now that makes sense. Thanks for the post, this was the kind of info I was hoping for!

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by closedLoop » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 pm

GregIcky wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:20 pm

Sample and Hold
Noise
Quantizer
Look at the ADDAC 215. It's got a noise output, 2 channel S&H (normalled to the noise), option for track & hold, slew of each channel, and some extras in 6hp. The new Divkid/SSF Rnd Step is also worth a look, though it won't give you a great audio-rate noise.

For a quantizer, Ornament & Crime is hard to beat, especially with all the other functionality it provides. I personally love the Piqued app. The slim versions are 8hp.

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by GregIcky » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:44 pm

EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:04 pm
Actual wind is a filter over white noise. You can modulate the filter to get the sound of wind blowing faster. The random modulations for that patch are %100 essential to be convincing. Wind wind instrument sounds use filtered white noise to simulate the breath component. Synthesizers use white noise to mix back in with the VCO's for that airy sound. You also use white noise as FM on a VCO or filter. Drum sounds are more commonly done with some square wave chaos circuit. Any LFSR based noise circuit will work. There are modules specifically designed as some clone of some component of a vintage 808 drum machine or a prophet 5 etc.. they are all available in eurorack.
Yeah, cool... this is what I figured would do the trick. Swirrling, howling, scary-halloween type stuff would be right up my sonic alley!

As for the LFSR's. I don't know much about them. Was thinking the Zorlon Canon would be good to explore. I almost grabbed one but it looks like they'er pretty much sold out now everywhere (I'm in the US and Fuck Trump BTW!)

Don't think I'm into the "clone" of some component of and 808 (if I'm reading that correctly). Like I have no desire to get a module dedicated to an 808 clap sound. If what you mean is a part of the functionality that allowed the 808 to make a certain sound was cloned - so that you could use that component to mangle your own sounds, that kind of thing makes sense to me.

This may be veering off topic a bit but I would like to know more about LFSR and what they're used and/or useful for. :hmm:

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by GregIcky » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:53 pm

closedLoop wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 pm
GregIcky wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:20 pm

Sample and Hold
Noise
Quantizer
Look at the ADDAC 215. It's got a noise output, 2 channel S&H (normalled to the noise), option for track & hold, slew of each channel, and some extras in 6hp. The new Divkid/SSF Rnd Step is also worth a look, though it won't give you a great audio-rate noise.

For a quantizer, Ornament & Crime is hard to beat, especially with all the other functionality it provides. I personally love the Piqued app. The slim versions are 8hp.
I've been curious about these kind of "all in one" noise+s&h modules. You can sort of pull this off with the 4 channels of Kermit as well (minus the noise). I could see getting one if they have the option to access individual features as well (and apparently the ADDAC one does). Built in slew.. hmmm :hmm:

The O_C thing looks like a lotta bang for the buck. I know it goes way beyond just a quantizer. Something tho... maybe the menu, is keeping me on the fence about it. 8hp tho... that would be hard to beat.

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by megarat » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:57 pm

GregIcky wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:30 pm
The only lag/slew I've got right now is Maths. I know there's a bunch out there. WMD mini slew or some such thing....
There are many, many options. Maths is great, unless you’re also using it as a function generator. Personally I have a Ladik C-012 and a pair of Joranalogue Contour 1s.

GregIcky wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:30 pm
Did not know that quantizers can generate random voltages... but now that makes sense. Thanks for the post, this was the kind of info I was hoping for!
Sorry, that was a mistake on my part. I meant to say “sequencers”, not “quantizers”.

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by GregIcky » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:27 pm

megarat wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:57 pm
GregIcky wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:30 pm
The only lag/slew I've got right now is Maths. I know there's a bunch out there. WMD mini slew or some such thing....
There are many, many options. Maths is great, unless you’re also using it as a function generator. Personally I have a Ladik C-012 and a pair of Joranalogue Contour 1s.

GregIcky wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:30 pm
Did not know that quantizers can generate random voltages... but now that makes sense. Thanks for the post, this was the kind of info I was hoping for!
Sorry, that was a mistake on my part. I meant to say “sequencers”, not “quantizers”.
Hmm... now I'm confused (it happens). I thought sequencers were the opposite of random voltages... figured (at least when I use them) that you're dialing in the exact voltage that you're after.

How are you using the slews in conjunction with these? If I may ask?

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by NewNewRon » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:33 pm

Synthtech e-102 has noise and can work as sample and hold and or Digital shift register. I love it. Noise module I love is Dunst. Intellijel Quantizer is simple and works.

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by megarat » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:38 pm

Sequencers employ randomness all the time. I have an ER-101/102 and a NerdSEQ, both of which can use randomness for, e.g., setting the probability that a note will get triggered, or for the actual pitch itself. (Think of a loop where the second note has a 20% chance of being a randomly generated pitch within two octaves of your defined scale.)

Many sequencers can randomly generate a sequence of voltages and then replay those randomly generated voltages. I have a K2579 which does this, and I’m considering getting a Mimetic Digitalis, which has a button (“Shred”) dedicated to generating random voltages. With four outputs, the MD can easily dedicate one channel cranking out a random sequence of voltages for modulation, etc.

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by megarat » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:44 pm

Oh, and re: slew, they’re very handy to use with random sources, to turn stepped random voltages into flowing random waves. A classic use for all this is to route white (audio) noise through a low-pass filter, then use a slewed random “wave” to control the filter cutoff, which gives you a wind-like sound, ala ‘70s rock.

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by rew_ » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:19 pm

I've used several small quantizers and O_c is the best if them in terms of features and interface.

I can't believe we got this far into a noise thread without mentioning Quantam Rainbow.

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by megarat » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:23 pm

rew_ wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:19 pm
I can't believe we got this far into a noise thread without mentioning Quantam Rainbow.
Whatcha talkin about? I mentioned the QR2 only a few posts in.

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:12 pm

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/noise-eng ... ranslatron

There are numerous examples of LFSR noise. Patching panda has a small one that is pretty new. Hex inverter.net VCnoise
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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by dubonaire » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:23 pm

megarat wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:12 pm
These modules are basic building blocks, but they are frequently used together or as part of larger, more multi-functional modules. I recommend thinking about your own personal workflow and how you would prefer to use these kinds of modules: on their own, or as part of larger modules, with more functionality.

Personally, I gravitate toward basic tools myself, so I tend to use:

— Noise: SSF Quantum Rainbow 2
— Quantizer: Doepfer A-156
— Sample/track and hold: Ladik C-310

That said, the Doepfer A-156 quantizer has a sort of built-in sample-and-hold by way of the “trigger in” jack, and I also have a XAOC Samara II, which has sample-and-hold as one of its modes, so this functionality is well-represented in my rack. Screw VCAs, you can never have too many sample-and-holds.

A last note on “noise”: this can mean an audio source, to use when sound-sculpting, or it can mean a source of random voltages, which you use for modulation. With a sample and hold, you can use audio-rate noise for modulation, but you can’t necessarily use all random voltages for audio. I already mentioned the Quantum Rainbow 2, which I mostly use for audio noise, but w/r/t random voltage sources I also have a Turing Machine Mk.2 with expanders, a Transient Modules 4R, a Doepfer A-149-1 and A-149-2, and various sequencers that can generate random voltages.

I find that I also use lag/slew limiters with these kinds of modules, especially random, so I recommend making sure that you’re covered on that front as well.
I think I have enough noise sources, but the Quantum Rainbow has always appealed to me and the Red noise output will give the OP the best noise for wind.

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by megarat » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:03 pm

dubonaire wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:23 pm
I think I have enough noise sources, but the Quantum Rainbow has always appealed to me and the Red noise output will give the OP the best noise for wind.
+1. Red/brown noise is ideal for wind effects.

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by GregIcky » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:37 pm

I think I might have to go with the Quantum Rainbow. I like SSF, they make neat stuff.

Just a random thought.... could you create some kind of white noise in a DAW and record it as a sample? I would think that some VST's would have some kind of noise you could generate and record...

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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by nostalghia » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:43 pm

GregIcky wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:37 pm
Just a random thought.... could you create some kind of white noise in a DAW and record it as a sample? I would think that some VST's would have some kind of noise you could generate and record...
If you just want noise to load into a sampler, you could get it from a site like this, with white, pink and brown noise mp3 downloads: https://whitenoisemp3s.com/free-white-noise

There are also apps for iOS, Android, Mac and Windows like White Noise: https://www.tmsoft.com/white-noise-player/

Using waterfall, rain and surf sounds as sources for S&H can be interesting too.
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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by Muff McMuff » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:24 am

The humble Doepfer A-118 Noise and random voltage is great module and can be very cheap secondhand. There is a DIY hack to add another jack and mult the random out.
The latest version of it A-118-2 is more compact and has sample and hold added.
DIsting Mk4 covers all the OP's needs plus a lot more. Its only going to be doing thing at a time though.
Some kind of input amp module like the Music Thing Microphonie will allow you to play radio crackle into your rack and get all kind of noise.
I don't own any Feedback Modules but their Static module looks very interesting and cheap $65. All their modules seem pretty rad.
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Re: Noise, S&H and Quantizers are missing from my rack.

Post by MillionJT » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:58 am

Depending on what you think about Behringer, they got a 16hp Ring Mod/S&H/Noise Combo. It's the Behringer 150 from their system 100 lineup. It doesn't have a quantizer though. When it comes to that, I'm still searching myself. I tried the Pico Quant and the Doepfer A-156 but both didn't do it for me. I thought I could save a buck with them. But I will try the Tip Top Audio quantizer or the Intellijel Scales I guess. I would really like to try Ornaments and Crime but at the moment I'm not in the mood to build it myself and I haven't found a good source for a pre-built (is it pre-built or pre-build?) here in Germany. The Dusting would be awesome to, but unfortunately it's also unavailable at the moment.

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