THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

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MyFriendRa
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THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:51 pm

Hi folks,

Hoping any of you fellow travellers here could wade in with some opinions on filters please . (if I missed any previous threads, please link, ta) :doh:

Filters - I've never be ecstatic about them and have general preferred additive methods and whatnot, and they have been last on my considerations.

However, have been wondering about 'morphing' mode filters - not toggle/switching state - the kind that can clicklessly blend between Lp,bp,hp,n etc

Currently my filter is a WMD/SSF MMF, which I enjoy despite being 4hp - it responds well and can get grizzly and punchy when needed. With this I recently bought an Intellijel Quad Vca and using the 4 Phase Lfo outs of Batumi and some Kinks routing have been phasing or morphing through LP/BP/HP/(kinks style)Notch from the MMF - creating a pseudo morph of sorts - pretty satisfying wondering if I could find a proper dedicated morph filter.

In this search then also discovered the 'spread / span / shift' methods - which initially muddied the waters...

FINDING A NEW FILTER to leak the wallet at...

So after surfing through the whole of the Modular grid Filter/phasor listings I narrowed down some filters that some input on would be very much appreciated :guinness: So iff you own one please rate etc ... and also correcting any of my misconceptions etc... Cheers!

Example - POLARIS - seemed like an obvious upgrade to MMF, seems like a solid build, but the lack of Morph, or Spans functions seemed lacking for where i'm heading - despite dedicated outs and distortion circuit being awesome.

...

https://www.funkstill.ch/module - Filter Threek 13700 is an OTA-based analog multimode filter that offers two serial linked multimode circuits.
Seems like a fascinating design with some interesting in module routing but was hard to gauge its response from videos available - do anyone here own one?

...

Ritual Electronics - ALTAR - I like this as a clean design with the bipolar cv options, and the color function is satisfactory for the morph if not the multi-poled monster than the Threek offers. If this module had set LP/BP/HP/N outs just there for the taking then I wouldn't likely be here asking! =p
I've watched the DivKid video so convinced atm - any over opinions?
...

Patching Panda - Vibrazum - Some thorough video (DK again, good stuff). Having 3 filters cores seems interesting, despite 1 set input. The shifter and switchable to BP modes seems handy for those Formant sounds.

...
Mannequins - Three Sisters - After find the circuit diagram on the GitHub page linked from their website this module seems the most curious and for exploration - but I've read issues about bleed or odd cv response , please can anyone confirm? Despite this the 4 in 4 out, and freq point spanning and !Q - subtractive resonance business seems cool.

...

Not in a rush with this and will likely save for a Intellijel Bifold before hand - Its Xfader circuit has helped rule out a Morgasmatron (spelt like that Idk).

If anyone know of a morphing, spanning shifting spreading, acidic butter based, with some fixed outputs and a variable one too, then please do tell! :goo:
...

If you made it this far, thank you, and if anyone can leave a reply the lord of sines will bless ye! :hail:

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nios
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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by nios » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:29 pm

There are only a couple filters in Euro that actually will continuously morph between states as opposed to "state variable" really meaning "you toggle a switch or use a different output to get different modes."

IME Bionic Lester mk3 will get you there and is in fact a dual filter with comb modes at the end as well and saves/can morph between a couple presets. It's two 2-poles but also can stack them both to go into 4-pole mode which sounds quite nice despite being an all-digital filter.

There's also the Koma SVF-201 which has a "mix" output where you can sweep between the state modes, but it's just LP/BP/HP and also it isn't in stereo while the BL is. The Make Noise MMG also can continuously sweep between LP/HP; both these filters incidentally are vactrol-based as well which will produce some variance between each unit. All in all though these are both older models (the MMG has in fact been discontinued for a while) and far less advanced/capable than the BL mk3; I have an MMG and BL and really the MMG is just vestigial in my system at this point, only kept for the quirk that you can ping it like a low-pass gate.

Also for span/spread type things there are two recent and awesome options in the format - SSF Stereo Dipole, and Make Noise QPAS. The Dipole is a much, much more capable filter specs-wise and can serve a number of different functions with some creative settings/patching, but is also a very clean/neutral sound as opposed to the QPAS having a really soft/dreamy/drifty tone to it, almost phased-sounding sometimes. Dipole also can drive and I'd say probably is better-suited for acid, and QPAS better-suited for ambient, although really you can actually get the Dipole pretty close to QPAS' sound by cranking up the resonance on each filter peak to just-below self-oscillation, then it sounds pretty similar actually and must be how the QPAS peaks were tuned (its peak res isn't adjustable unlike Dipole). Overall QPAS is a "quad filter" that really acts like just one filter, but the Dipole is more like two twin-peak filters with a third master filter on top of them.

BL mk3, QPAS and Stereo Dipole are all also stereo filters as well which is IMO a really big deal over the typical mono format and essential if you're looking for morphing/spreading activities. Basically you can't go wrong with any of those three I think, and although personally I'd vouch for BL+Dipole over the QPAS by a longshot - not everyone would.

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lisa
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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by lisa » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:38 pm

Doepfer A-107 Multitype Morphing Filter is an interesting contender.
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natureclubcassettes
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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by natureclubcassettes » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:35 pm

another vote for MMG, sad that it is out of production

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by Voltcontrol » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:47 pm

SEM and Wasp filters come equipped with a band pass output and a combined low/notch/high pass (mix knob) output if that's what you mean. Much simpler beasts than something like the (great) SSF dipole.

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by Buttons ARE toys » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:58 pm

It's not exactly the sort of thing you're describing, but the Rossum Morpheus comes to mind for me here. It has tons of different filter shapes and responses that can then be morphed in various ways.

Three Sisters can do some really cool stuff with signal mixing/splitting. I'm not familiar with the issues of bleed and odd CV response and I've had mine for about two years. Mine has never given me more problems than a scratchy pot turn every once in a while.

You could also look into modules that make it easier to morph through the outputs of your other filter. The ADDAC 805.VS2, Mutabe Instruments Frames/Plancks, or adding a Doepfer A-144 to your Quad VCA would make that sort of patch super quick to put together.
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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:08 pm

Thank you all for replies so far - chronology-response

@nios - thank you for the in-depth reply:

Koma SVF-201 - News to me, but seems tidy. The MMG I got that impression.[and for both - not sure about vactorals for this, always seen them for pinging in LPGs - cool tho]
QPAS looks heavy for sure and have done some thorough research on it, but falls into the 'when i win the lottery to buy and B&G shared system' category I forgot to mention =p ... I just finished watching the Dipole video, and altho it would likely sit well with my ZPO , I was put off but the click switches - but sounded ace.

The Bionic Lester mk3- I have seen this, was worried about the screen..( should i be ?) as in how much do you have to rely on it vs playability ( ?? ), and didn't realise it passed the 'will it blend' check, figured it was selected a mode and blend with the A/B xfader at the bottom - I'll check some videos though for sure. Thanks the recommendation.

-----

@natureclubcassettes - maybe Tony will make a redux one day

----

@lisa - Doepfer A-107 Multitype Morphing Filter - definitely seems decent from what I've researched although I was hoping to really shred the cv on morphing up into audio range... Also, great track had it on whilst reading all the replies!

-----
@voltcontrol:
Wasp filters - yeah they have been on my maybe list for a while now as there is something rather distinct about them. Looking for mad cv control this time around

---

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:22 pm

Buttons ARE toys wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:58 pm
It's not exactly the sort of thing you're describing, but the Rossum Morpheus comes to mind for me here. It has tons of different filter shapes and responses that can then be morphed in various ways.

Three Sisters can do some really cool stuff with signal mixing/splitting. I'm not familiar with the issues of bleed and odd CV response and I've had mine for about two years. Mine has never given me more problems than a scratchy pot turn every once in a while.

You could also look into modules that make it easier to morph through the outputs of your other filter. The ADDAC 805.VS2, Mutabe Instruments Frames/Plancks, or adding a Doepfer A-144 to your Quad VCA would make that sort of patch super quick to put together.
Rossum Morpheus - haha yes that madlad of a module.I had a bash thru the manual and felt like in a VST emporium, interesting but not this time around!

Three Sisters - Mixing, yes I'm getting this impression and I really like making delay feedback signals so this could be the one maybe. Ok, good to know you haven't experienced these problems. How is the formant mode for you? I guess I could get some sister based morph with the quadvca method.

ah yes that is true, frames seems cool - I also saw Qu-Bit Synapse and the Malekko QuadVca as similar paths to this - Doepfer missed the trick there by not including the 4vcas to put with the controller! Alas, might see if there's a under 6hp phase lfo about.

Basically I would have to decide between the Patching Panda Vibrazum / Three Sisters multi core spanning /shift style ... vs ... the Threek, Altar , BLmk3 style. The second group won't really need this quadvca scenario , but you do get to audio rate some morphing it seems. Thanks for the feedback!

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by Gringo Starr » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:30 pm

Thanks for mentioning the Ritual Electronics Altar. Just listened to some demos. I’m impressed. Sounds great! I vote for that one.

I think I just found my next filter.
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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by Illwiggle » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:39 pm

The Rossum Evolution may fit the bill here

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:45 pm

@GringoStarr - Ah nice, glad this has been some help to you. Yeah that module has a decent tone, they have a good distortion module too Miasma i think, and some rather late medieval style blind panels to be feared.

@Illwiggle - right then, got the manufacturer's page on tab to read the manual tomorrow, to much talk of species and the like on the panel for this hour!
Thanks for the rec!

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by crumb dinger » Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:45 pm

I own the Lester and Three Sisters and love them both. As far as the screen on the Lester, you'll rarely have to use it except to change CV assignments and check which link mode you're on. CV routing is quite simply accomplished and I don't find it a hassle to change mine up on the fly as opposed to using presets. Everyday filter swooping is easily handled by the knobs alone.

Sisters is the one I would miss more, admittedly. It's just very special in terms of sound, as a voice, and in its response to audio rate modulation. As mentioned above, I haven't had any issues except for a scratchy pot, which is easily fixable. Pairs great with Cold Mac or another crossfading mixer, etc. Cold Mac rocks with it because nearly all of it can respond at audio rate, perfect for feedback and AM stuff.

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by Buttons ARE toys » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:06 pm

MyFriendRa wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:22 pm
How is the formant mode for you? I guess I could get some sister based morph with the quadvca method.
I love formant mode, use it all the time for all sorts of things. If you ping it in formant mode you can make some good sounding drum voices, and when you turn down the negative resonance it sort of turns into a 3 notch phaser. Overall Sisters is one of the most versatile and interesting modules I've used, it can do so many things.
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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by Foghorn » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:48 pm

Bionic Lester, a state variable, digital filter? :hihi:

BTW, I believe that morphing is just really a fancy mixer that fades between the outputs of a state variable filter.
Also, state variable refers to a certain circuit topology and not the fact that it has multiple outputs.
.
OK, damn you, now you have me thinking about filters again. And just when my wallet started to recuperate


P. S. I am just laughing at the term, State Variable digital filter, and not the Bionic Lester which is a really good filter module.
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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by Dave Peck » Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:25 pm

Keep in mind that any filter that provides multiple outputs on separate jacks (HP/BP/LP) can be made to smoothly transition from one to the next even if the filter module doesn't have this feature built in. Just connect the various outputs to one or more crossfaders.

Doing this also lets you do crazy things like crossfade between LP and HP, but instead of a slow 'morph', try controlling the crossfader with the audio output from the filter's BP output, or with some other audio source. Etc.

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by bhmcc » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:02 pm

Dave Peck wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:25 pm
Keep in mind that any filter that provides multiple outputs on separate jacks (HP/BP/LP) can be made to smoothly transition from one to the next even if the filter module doesn't have this feature built in. Just connect the various outputs to one or more crossfaders.

Doing this also lets you do crazy things like crossfade between LP and HP, but instead of a slow 'morph', try controlling the crossfader with the audio output from the filter's BP output, or with some other audio source. Etc.
Yup, this! Buy the filter (or filters) with the sound you seek and then add the utility module(s) to accomplish the crossfading/morphing/spanning, etc. This way you can always change filters but still achieve the desired effect.

P. S. And, yes, the Three Sisters is a really special filter. Highly recommended!

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by dubonaire » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:07 pm

lisa wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:38 pm
Doepfer A-107 Multitype Morphing Filter is an interesting contender.
It's a great filter, even when not morphing. 36 filter types, heaps of CV and an output VCA which is useful. It's being discontinued so needs to be bought now.

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by VibratingMotorGate » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 pm

Dave Peck wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:25 pm
Keep in mind that any filter that provides multiple outputs on separate jacks (HP/BP/LP) can be made to smoothly transition from one to the next even if the filter module doesn't have this feature built in. Just connect the various outputs to one or more crossfaders.

Doing this also lets you do crazy things like crossfade between LP and HP, but instead of a slow 'morph', try controlling the crossfader with the audio output from the filter's BP output, or with some other audio source. Etc.
with the Joranalogue Morph4 one could patch in band, low, high, and notch filters in and scan between the four. I don't know why more people aren't freaking out about this new module, you can use it as a very interesting looking oscillator, 4-way crossfader, a dual crossfader, and it was suggested by the man himself you could use it as a 4-windowed comparator (albeit after plugin the outputs into actual comparators I would think?).

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by lisa » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:47 pm

VibratingMotorGate wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 pm
with the Joranalogue Morph4 one could patch in band, low, high, and notch filters in and scan between the four. I don't know why more people aren't freaking out about this new module
Good question. Similar quad crossfader modules has existed in the past without gaining much popularity. EFN had a Blind Monk Quad (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/blind-monk-modular-quad) in stock for ages and had to lower the price several times to get rid of it.
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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:45 am

crumb dinger wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:45 pm
Sisters is the one I would miss more, admittedly. It's just very special in terms of sound, as a voice, and in its response to audio rate modulation. As mentioned above, I haven't had any issues except for a scratchy pot, which is easily fixable. Pairs great with Cold Mac or another crossfading mixer, etc. Cold Mac rocks with it because nearly all of it can respond at audio rate, perfect for feedback and AM stuff.
Thanks crumb dinger, yeah if you would miss it that says a lot! How does the inverted Q section handle? I'm considering getting a Bifold so that might come in and a handy combo. I do like shredding out waveforms! The BLmk3 seemed competent for sure, but I felt like it should be a bit more hp for some breathing space, and I personally prefer direct cv mapping but yeah preferences and that. Cheers

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:53 am

Buttons ARE toys wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:06 pm
I love formant mode, use it all the time for all sorts of things. If you ping it in formant mode you can make some good sounding drum voices, and when you turn down the negative resonance it sort of turns into a 3 notch phaser. Overall Sisters is one of the most versatile and interesting modules I've used, it can do so many things.
Oh nice, a triple notch sound interesting. I'm guessing that the spacing between them can then be modulated with the span? Formant could be good for sequecning I imagine. I've tried out formant through Plaits and playing with Pure Data, but it would be great to get in there and be able to take the process apart. Thanks

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:03 am

Foghorn wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:48 pm
Bionic Lester, a state variable, digital filter? :hihi:

BTW, I believe that morphing is just really a fancy mixer that fades between the outputs of a state variable filter.
Also, state variable refers to a certain circuit topology and not the fact that it has multiple outputs.
.
OK, damn you, now you have me thinking about filters again. And just when my wallet started to recuperate
Yeah I think that morphing is that in some extent. I did a basic test with Ableton which has to option to morph and sent a square into it and did the same on the modular and used a quad via and phase lfo to near recreate the process. I guess its all about the playoff of available CV generation and VCAs vs whatchawannado. If the ALTAR had dedicated outputs not affected by the morph/color circuit then I'd get that!

"Also, state variable refers to a certain circuit topology and not the fact that it has multiple outputs." - ah right didn't specifically realise this, but I do get how the topology would matter to the final filter appeal. The Three Sisters comes with a deeper manual that explains the layout which I find appealing.

I , and we , are all damned by the ever expanding circuitry...

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:05 am

Dave Peck wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:25 pm
Keep in mind that any filter that provides multiple outputs on separate jacks (HP/BP/LP) can be made to smoothly transition from one to the next even if the filter module doesn't have this feature built in. Just connect the various outputs to one or more crossfaders.

Doing this also lets you do crazy things like crossfade between LP and HP, but instead of a slow 'morph', try controlling the crossfader with the audio output from the filter's BP output, or with some other audio source. Etc.
Nice thanks for the headsup. Yeah since posting the other night I have been exploring more with a quad VCA... The Disting has a crossfader so I'll try out that BP modulation for sure! Any thoughts on Three Sisters / Vibrazum / ALTAR?

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:15 am

bhmcc wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:02 pm
Yup, this! Buy the filter (or filters) with the sound you seek and then add the utility module(s) to accomplish the crossfading/morphing/spanning, etc. This way you can always change filters but still achieve the desired effect.

P. S. And, yes, the Three Sisters is a really special filter. Highly recommended!
Yes the Three Sisters is getting decent rep so far. So you are saying I should focus on the type/style of the filter? I can get quite interesting waveforms from additive methods I have, and have a WMDSSF MMF which does a good range. It's quite possible I don't even need an additional filter and was getting focused on unique utility options rather than sound. Thing in for something like spanning , it would require more than 1 filter module to achieve I'm guessing if that function isn't provided within the module itself? The morphing I've got down, and its the Three Sisters and Vibrazum that have my attention more now. Any other filters other than Three Sisters I should check out - for sound etc? I've done a fairy thorough search just on the utilities of the modules dismissing those that didn't have special features, but obviously I can hear them otherwise!! Thanks for the feedback, a different way to think about the issue.

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by far » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:34 am

Have you checked out Dinsync's Sara VCF?
Has as far as I know a pretty unique take on morphing between lo/hi pass as signal flows between 2 filters, can't quite remember details as I haven't used this feature for a couple of years. I generally use it as two seperate filters or more often for it's self-oscillating sines which are pretty damn sweet.

But yeah, I'm also on the lookout for a new filter, been a few years.

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