THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

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philipdeman
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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by philipdeman » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:51 am

lisa wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:47 pm
VibratingMotorGate wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 pm
with the Joranalogue Morph4 one could patch in band, low, high, and notch filters in and scan between the four. I don't know why more people aren't freaking out about this new module
Good question. Similar quad crossfader modules has existed in the past without gaining much popularity. EFN had a Blind Monk Quad (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/blind-monk-modular-quad) in stock for ages and had to lower the price several times to get rid of it.
You can easily do this with the Verbos Scan & Pan, or the Intellijel Planar, or really any quad VCA coupled with the Antimatter V3kt for example, or the ADDAC VC Transitions. Doesn't mean I'm not impressed with the Morph4, of course, but I don't know if more people should be freaking out.

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:05 am

far wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:34 am
Have you checked out Dinsync's Sara VCF?
Has as far as I know a pretty unique take on morphing between lo/hi pass as signal flows between 2 filters, can't quite remember details as I haven't used this feature for a couple of years. I generally use it as two seperate filters or more often for it's self-oscillating sines which are pretty damn sweet.

But yeah, I'm also on the lookout for a new filter, been a few years.
Hi, seemed alright but I favoured the ALTAR over it for similar abilities but with full cv control, despite the SARA being a dual filter.

Do you have experience with Three Sisters, Vibrazum, Altar, Filter Threek? Or have any thoughts on them, or other filters?

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bhmcc
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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by bhmcc » Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:18 am

MyFriendRa wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:15 am
bhmcc wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:02 pm
Yup, this! Buy the filter (or filters) with the sound you seek and then add the utility module(s) to accomplish the crossfading/morphing/spanning, etc. This way you can always change filters but still achieve the desired effect.

P. S. And, yes, the Three Sisters is a really special filter. Highly recommended!
Yes the Three Sisters is getting decent rep so far. So you are saying I should focus on the type/style of the filter?
Not necessarily... Just saying get the filter that you like the sound of and has the modes you need and you can let other module(s) do the morphing between the modes. If there are any of the typical filtered sounds you have heard that draw you in, definitely look at those filter architectures. This was an interesting thread to me because 9 out of 10 filter threads on MW are about the sound or whether a particular clone is any good or if it loses bass when the resonance is cranked or if it will self oscillate and track 1V/octave. So I applaud you there, but then it seemed to come full circle based on a recommendation (which I echoed) so sorry about that.

Back to the idea... in the case of Three Sisters, Cold Mac is the perfect companion for scanning/morphing. And Just Friends. Hell, might as well throw in a Mangroves for good measure. I know I did. 🤔

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:35 am

I think I came from this angle as I'm more into additive/noise/delays (to add tones and that) rather than moog style subtractive synths and haven't cared for clones. I like good panel ergonomics (form follows function) and how it expands the options of the electrical labyrinth you can explore, rather than necessarily the sound but tbf the sound angle is becoming more relevant. I suppose i'd be intentionally after something sterile that allows the sculpting rather than a filter with bass/tone/acid/etc character as I'm not keen for making anything that falls into a particular sound... Its a tricky one I guess.
The filter type on Arturia synths has a warm but potentially gritty or biting character. I'm retconning the argument of doing the morphing out of module is strong, which would leave Three Sisters vs Vibrazum - which there hasn't been any feedback- might start a new post on that!

I'll check out the Cold Mac and other Mannequins gear to see where 3Sis sits in the range... I was thinking about how does Three Sisters respond to attenuator/vca/delay line feedback signals in thru the other inputs? Got any patch suggestions for it?

Thanks bhmcc!

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by VibratingMotorGate » Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:46 pm

philipdeman wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:51 am
lisa wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:47 pm
VibratingMotorGate wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 pm
with the Joranalogue Morph4 one could patch in band, low, high, and notch filters in and scan between the four. I don't know why more people aren't freaking out about this new module
Good question. Similar quad crossfader modules has existed in the past without gaining much popularity. EFN had a Blind Monk Quad (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/blind-monk-modular-quad) in stock for ages and had to lower the price several times to get rid of it.
You can easily do this with the Verbos Scan & Pan, or the Intellijel Planar, or really any quad VCA coupled with the Antimatter V3kt for example, or the ADDAC VC Transitions. Doesn't mean I'm not impressed with the Morph4, of course, but I don't know if more people should be freaking out.
well not exactly. Addac's rotator (transitions doesn't do this)is stepped, Verbos is stereo by nature (edit: but it does seem to scan between 4 inputs! sorry everyone.), and with the Planar it would be difficult to cv both the x and y axis so that they don't overlap (AM modulating every other cycle - oppositely - for both cv). And that's without even getting into the fact that you can cv the position, width AND amplitude of each of the channels with the Morph 4.
Last edited by VibratingMotorGate on Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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everythingcontinues
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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by everythingcontinues » Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:52 pm

MyFriendRa wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:35 am
The filter type on Arturia synths has a warm but potentially gritty or biting character. I'm retconning the argument of doing the morphing out of module is strong, which would leave Three Sisters vs Vibrazum - which there hasn't been any feedback- might start a new post on that!
philipdeman wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:51 am
You can easily do this with the Verbos Scan & Pan
I'd add a plug for the Scan & Pan if you're open to doing the morphing / blending outside of the filter module, especially as you reference a warm but potentially gritty or biting character. Scan & Pan has some lovely transistor-based overdrive, so you could use it to add some extra character. I often use it in conjunction with the SSF Stereo Dipole, which has its own drive, and like how layering a bit of saturation in at the two stages sounds vs doing it all in one.

In general, it's a pretty useful 4-in, 2-out stereo mixing module with voltage controlled level and pan on all the channels, in addition to the scanning, which would give you all sorts of options in blending the filter outputs.

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Dave Peck
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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by Dave Peck » Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:41 pm

lisa wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:47 pm
VibratingMotorGate wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 pm
with the Joranalogue Morph4 one could patch in band, low, high, and notch filters in and scan between the four. I don't know why more people aren't freaking out about this new module
Good question. Similar quad crossfader modules has existed in the past without gaining much popularity. EFN had a Blind Monk Quad (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/blind-monk-modular-quad) in stock for ages and had to lower the price several times to get rid of it.
It may be more versatile to get a couple of simple crossfader modules (or a single module with dual independant crossfaders, like a Happy Nerding Dual X-fade:https://www.modulargrid.net/e/happy-nerding-dual-xfade ) .

Connect HP and LP filter outputs to the inputs of the first crossfader, which now gives you an output varying from HP through notch to LP.

Connect the BP filter output to input 1 of the second crossfader, and connect the output of that first crossfader to input 2 of the second crossfader. Modulate each crossfader with a different CV source, like two random LFOs running at slightly rates. You now get a randomly and continuously changing blend of all four filter outputs - HP, LP, notch, and BP.

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far
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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by far » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:59 pm

MyFriendRa wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:05 am
far wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:34 am
Have you checked out Dinsync's Sara VCF?
Has as far as I know a pretty unique take on morphing between lo/hi pass as signal flows between 2 filters, can't quite remember details as I haven't used this feature for a couple of years. I generally use it as two seperate filters or more often for it's self-oscillating sines which are pretty damn sweet.

But yeah, I'm also on the lookout for a new filter, been a few years.
Hi, seemed alright but I favoured the ALTAR over it for similar abilities but with full cv control, despite the SARA being a dual filter.

Do you have experience with Three Sisters, Vibrazum, Altar, Filter Threek? Or have any thoughts on them, or other filters?
Yes I have 3 Sisters as well, very unique, I barely have taken it out of Formant mode. I'll add to what has been said in the past and in here that I'm not bothered by the bleed/distortion people talk about from the 'all' output.
Not sure what you're into, but I like it quite heavy and the negative Quality has helped me create some room shaking low end drones.
These days I have it pretty much paired with the NE Loquelic Iteritas, they seem to work really well together as Loquelic is so dynamic and modulating Span is the go.
I did try and liked making a kick yesterday from pinging 3 sisters whilst slightly fm'ing the fm in with the aforementioned Sara sine. Wouldn't say I could find more of a sweet spot than where I sat, but it was nice kick imo.

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crumb dinger
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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by crumb dinger » Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:39 am

MyFriendRa wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:45 am
Thanks crumb dinger, yeah if you would miss it that says a lot! How does the inverted Q section handle? I'm considering getting a Bifold so that might come in and a handy combo. I do like shredding out waveforms! The BLmk3 seemed competent for sure, but I felt like it should be a bit more hp for some breathing space, and I personally prefer direct cv mapping but yeah preferences and that. Cheers
The inverted Q is awesome, I can't claim to really understand it but it gives me the feeling that I'm using a sort of EQ rather than a filter. I'm the type that just patches and tries things out, and Sisters has rewarded me greatly despite the fact that I don't get it at a fundamental level! Something to keep in mind, I guess.

BLMK3 is definitely cramped, that has to be my main complaint with it. For instance, if you want to adjust the CV2 attenuverter on channel B you will basically find yourself bumping into the adjacent knobs no matter what, plus there'll always be a cable plugged in a couple mm above it. Scott seems to have designed the UI on the smaller MK3 modules with the preset manager very much in mind, since using it deliberately takes a lot of the strain off the knobs. That being said, it's not that bad and the sound is crazy, especially fully patched up with unsynced CV. I only have a 7U and I'm willing to trade hands on interfaces for deep capability.

With all of that in mind, though, Mannequins stuff is near-perfect from a UI standpoint and works great in or as a small system. 3S also has kind of a sterile, neutral character that you can grit up through feedback. Might be up your alley that way. You asked for patching ideas with 3S so I'll throw a couple simple ones out: throw any really chunky signal into the all input. Patch the center out to FM in and adjust to taste. Monitor at high, low, or all output. Span takes audio rate modulation beautifully as well. An envelope into the quality in does wonders, too.

Otherwise get a cold mac: patch low and high into left and right respectively, and then put center into survey or fade, suddenly you have spectrally related amplitude modulation, in stereo. Simple and beautiful.

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by skulptr » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:44 am

Long-time lurker here, finally made an account to talk about a filter that doesn't seem to get a lot of love here (unknown makes unloved I guess).

I have the Funkstill Filter Threek and if you are looking for a stepless morphing multimode filter (and then some) then I can highly recommend it. While you can use it as "just" a regular filter, that is not really what it was made for. As its layout makes very clear, it is all about morphing between the different modes. And in between these modes you are in waveshaping territory which itself can create all kinds of interesting sounds (the module doesn't use VCAs to blend between the modes, it uses a diode circuit instead).

You can also toggle the center section between 2 different band-pass or all-pass configurations and you can of course also modulate the toggling between both using CV (and decide how/when you wan the toggling to occur). There are 2 CV inputs which you can assign to various parameters (the usual suspects such as resonance and cutoff frequency but also linear FM and modulation of mode but that one also has a dedicated CV input). Various switches allow you to change the modules behaviour. Like for example LP resonance compensation (when "On" signal level stays the same with increasing resonance, "Off" reduces level at lower frequencies and "1/2" is somewhere in between). You can even set the "type" of resonance to either "classic" or 2 variations which give you yet more sound sculpting possibilities (the 2 variations being more unpredictable and highly dependent on input signal, level, ...).

And even this is just scratching the surface of its possibilities. All of this does, however, make it a much more complex module than a classic bread-and-butter LP/BP/HP filter but I just noticed that there is a manual now (there wasn't when I got it) so I'd definitely check that one out if the module interests you: https://www.funkstill.ch/files/Filter_T ... 1.0_En.pdf

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:42 am

everythingcontinues wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:52 pm
I'd add a plug for the Scan & Pan
Looks damn good!

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by 1960strat » Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:46 am

I would add the new WMD C4rbn.. It is small and sounds awesome

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:56 am

skulptr wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:44 am
Long-time lurker here, finally made an account to talk about a filter that doesn't seem to get a lot of love here (unknown makes unloved I guess).

I have the Funkstill Filter Threek and if you are looking for a stepless morphing multimode filter (and then some) then I can highly recommend it.
Hi skulptr, thanks for making your account! - I made mine for this topic so glad you can share this.

I found the Threek because of searching for a smooth morphing filter. Thanks for the manual link as before I was really on the translator app!
The only issues or questions I have about the module are:

- how do you find all the extra switches and attached utility options like the assignable attenuators etc?

I have wondered why they didn't just have attenuverters on each input if that was what was needed.

- does the mode track cv well, or do you have to use it by hand to find 'sweet spots'? - or is the answer to this about my question above using a assignable knob?

- any criticisms of the module?

Cheers

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:00 am

EDIT: New filter for the list. LA67 LR4 - crossover filter. ANY THOUGHTS?

Seems like a good module to add to any system as a supporting feature rather than a dedicated filter - is that a fair guestimation? Was imagining have a band-pass output going into this module so it can slice it up more.


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dubonaire
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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by dubonaire » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:20 pm

^^ That looks very useful.

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by skulptr » Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:20 am

MyFriendRa wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:56 am
- how do you find all the extra switches and attached utility options like the assignable attenuators etc?

I have wondered why they didn't just have attenuverters on each input if that was what was needed.
On the one hand these switches make the module more versatile but on the other hand it would have been nice if some (CV1 and CV2 in particular) would have had dedicated inputs & attenuverters. I guess the designer made a tradeoff here to keep the module reasonably compact at 14HP. That would definitely not have been possible if he had given every option its own input (let alone attenuverter).
MyFriendRa wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:56 am
- does the mode track cv well, or do you have to use it by hand to find 'sweet spots'? - or is the answer to this about my question above using a assignable knob?
The mode input is very flexible and responds well to both traditional CV as well as audio rate modulation. You will, however, most likely want to pair it with an offset generator because often there will be a particular subrange that is the real sweet spot for a given signal and so you'll want to set it up so that your modulation stays within that range. Like many "sexy" modules this one also shines brightest with the support of some basic utility modules.

MyFriendRa wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:56 am
- any criticisms of the module?
I'm personally very happy with it but it is definitely more a deep sound design tool for in the studio than a live performance filter to make the crowd go crazy. ;) The flexibility of the switches and the interplay between how you've set them and various other parts of the circuit, as well as quite some extensive internal normalling you need to be aware of, do make it one of the more complex filters out there. If all you need is a simple "classic" filter then there are better alternatives out there but if you like diving in the deep end to go hunting for new sounds then I'd definitely check it out.

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by autopoiesis » Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:08 am

OP: klangbau twin peak resonator can do a morph between 12db LP and variable width bandpass (12db LP subtracting the other 12db LP) that gives you a sort of peaking filter in the middle of the "blend" knob. has character in spades and is a champ at pings and dual peak filter fm.

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MindMachine » Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:15 pm

Dave Peck wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:41 pm
lisa wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:47 pm
VibratingMotorGate wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:10 pm
with the Joranalogue Morph4 one could patch in band, low, high, and notch filters in and scan between the four. I don't know why more people aren't freaking out about this new module
Good question. Similar quad crossfader modules has existed in the past without gaining much popularity. EFN had a Blind Monk Quad (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/blind-monk-modular-quad) in stock for ages and had to lower the price several times to get rid of it.
It may be more versatile to get a couple of simple crossfader modules (or a single module with dual independant crossfaders, like a Happy Nerding Dual X-fade:https://www.modulargrid.net/e/happy-nerding-dual-xfade ) .

Connect HP and LP filter outputs to the inputs of the first crossfader, which now gives you an output varying from HP through notch to LP.

Connect the BP filter output to input 1 of the second crossfader, and connect the output of that first crossfader to input 2 of the second crossfader. Modulate each crossfader with a different CV source, like two random LFOs running at slightly rates. You now get a randomly and continuously changing blend of all four filter outputs - HP, LP, notch, and BP.
That's what I did. Recently bought a Bubblesound X Fade to use not quite exclusively for this purpose. There are so few filters that offer this built in feature. I am leaning toward purchasing a second Doepfer A-124 Wasp VCF. The old Cyndustries Wasp was morphable. So sweet to go bewteen filter types on that And same w/ the creamy Doepfer A-106 SEM VCF. They are inexpensive enough to try the experiment. It's just a matter of space.
FS: Pedals and Euro modules, Delta Labs
viewtopic.php?f=74&t=233636&p=3287718&h ... e#p3287718

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:05 am

skulptr wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:20 am
definitely check it out.
Skulptr, thanks for the thorough answers! Yeah I thought that the spacing trade out might have been the case, but that can't always be sure unless you've had hands-on experience. I'm 50/50 on switches, I appreciate how more modes can be added and that certainly does expand possibilities but again it affects the sound if switching mid tones or hits etc. But yeah this filter does seems like a definite sound searcher , rather than the crowd pleaser. Gotta say with this positive review you're making the possible future filter purchase more difficult !! Cheers :guinness:

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by minatorymodular » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:00 am

I too am trying to replicate this specific filter setup: a dual peak filter that can morph between modes and can be parallel or serial. Bonus points for morphing between parallel and serial modes.

I like the idea of morphing/crossfading between two seperate filters. Mostly because it would save the 20HP and ~$400 from a dual filter. I'd think it's be cool with something like Mutable Frames.

But does anyone know how to set up a crossfade between parallel and serial configurations with two seperate filters? Or more specifically, a crossfade between serial, parallel, serial with one inverted, and parallel with one inverted? I'm giving my polarizer the thousand island stare trying to figure it out.

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by pingu » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:17 pm

I recomend the Polaris...
My starter filter and I feel no pressure or need for another filter... No wants...
Im in an absolutel ☺️ zen state with this one :hail:.
Swim through the waves and feel the spray

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:40 am

minatorymodular wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:00 am
I too am trying to replicate this specific filter setup: a dual peak filter that can morph between modes and can be parallel or serial. Bonus points for morphing between parallel and serial modes.

I like the idea of morphing/crossfading between two seperate filters. Mostly because it would save the 20HP and ~$400 from a dual filter. I'd think it's be cool with something like Mutable Frames.

But does anyone know how to set up a crossfade between parallel and serial configurations with two seperate filters? Or more specifically, a crossfade between serial, parallel, serial with one inverted, and parallel with one inverted? I'm giving my polarizer the thousand island stare trying to figure it out.
morphing between parallel and serial would be heavy. But i imagine that a filter like this would actual have to be a quad filter (?) - ie Dual A would be set to serial and Dual B to parallel - there's a reason there is a switch right? - and then the outputs are crossfaded . which is kind of what the intellijel bi fold is throwing out there but not the filter morpher for sure. ... Although maybe another way would be a regular dual filter but instead of a switch there is a crossfade but wouldn't this just make a mad feedback mess? like circuit bending the thing, could be fun.

You're conundrum of 2 indie filters which then moves between them etc - I tried to write this but reached for pen and paper!

Osc etc - 2 filters - 2 VCAs - 3 buff mults - 2 combiners of some sort - a modulator cv source that can be high whilst low (make noise function is my choice) ... although now it would be possible to not have an inverting blend but you could have phase offset or gate delayed ADSR so you can have it Serial moving through into Parallel in a non linear fashion.
2indiefilterSPidea.jpg

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by autopoiesis » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:14 am

to morph between parallel and serial I believe it would only require a couple of passive mults, single crossfader, and a mixer (could be a simple unity mixer without attenuators):

- vco multed to both vcf1 input and crossfader input1
- vcf1 output multed to crossfader input2 and the mixer
- crossfader output patched to vcf2
- vcf2 output patched to the mixer

when the crossfader is in the "1" position, you end up with a parallel routing. when it's in the "2" position, you get serial.

to do the inverted bits requires some more utilities but that's the easier part to wrap your head around

basically, get a 3x MIA and a Dual Xfade both from happy nerding :)

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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by MyFriendRa » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:58 am

autopoiesis wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:14 am
to morph between parallel and serial I believe it would only require a couple of passive mults, single crossfader, and a mixer (could be a simple unity mixer without attenuators):

- vco multed to both vcf1 input and crossfader input1
- vcf1 output multed to crossfader input2 and the mixer
- crossfader output patched to vcf2
- vcf2 output patched to the mixer

when the crossfader is in the "1" position, you end up with a parallel routing. when it's in the "2" position, you get serial.

to do the inverted bits requires some more utilities but that's the easier part to wrap your head around

basically, get a 3x MIA and a Dual Xfade both from happy nerding :)
Ah yes, my 2 VCA could just be a Xfade, for simplicity - I quite like having 2 VCAs for madness ... I realised i messed up after the filters as well. The issue is that VCF is always parallel, whereas VCF2 is a blend of both. After the 2 filters there need to be a reverse crossfader right(?) - one input with 2 outputs. In code it would be a pack and unpack function. I'm probably mistaken dunno , but I can only think flip flop VCAs after VCF2 which is modulated by the same CV that controls the Crossfader.

This? Sorry for bad hand writing!
Xfader2.jpg

[EDIT]

Nope rather than 2 VCAs after the VCF-2 there just needs to be a VCA after VCF-1 ... So that when in Serial Mode the post-VCF1-VCA is closed so that there isn't Parallel mixed into the Serial, and when the Crossfader is in Parallel this post-VCF1-VCA is fulled open.
Last edited by MyFriendRa on Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

autopoiesis
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Re: THE SEARCH FOR A NEW FILTER

Post by autopoiesis » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:07 am

oh yeah, forgot to subtract the first filter for the serial routing. I'm sick and my head hurts so I'm going to bow out of further discussion on this right now haha

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