Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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a_b_d
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Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by a_b_d » Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:22 am

Is there something you wish every Eurorack module had? Think reverse power protection, comprehensive documentation, or user-updatable firmware. Vote on 18 community-driven features and I’ll share the results here and on other Eurorack forums:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... w/viewform

Some notes:
  • The survey closes on Sunday, September 27th at 11:59pm Eastern time (ET).
  • Results will be shared publicly and raw data is available on request (eurorack.survey@gmail.com).
  • I am a Eurorack user doing this survey for fun, and am not affiliated with any business or other private entity.

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lisa
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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by lisa » Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:41 am

At no cost to anyone or should I factor in that many demands could render a module more expensive or even result in it never being released at all?
909, manic trilling courtesy of Make Noise René and DPO, wavetable bass by Disting and some soft melodies by the Korg Minilogue. I mainly sat and watched it all unfold. :eek:


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a_b_d
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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by a_b_d » Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:59 am

Great question! I would recommend considering your "perfect world" -- don't worry about cost implications for the purposes of this survey. It's a very important topic, though.

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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by minatorymodular » Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:04 pm

The only features I consider to be absolutely essential are what I'd call "anti-explodatorial" features. As in, please don't let me ignite, electrocute, or incapacitate the module.

I recently had to follow through on an RMA for dealing with a firmware issue. It wasn't a terrible experience, but I'd prefer to avoid it. If a module can't update its firmware over USB, it better be rock solid.

The way Make Noise handles the Morphagene, where you can set different firmware options by editing a text file, seems very cool. I often see requests for this or that minor feature. Why not let the user decide, to a reasonable extent?

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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by Hovercraft » Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:58 pm

Are features you picked the only choices in the survey?

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a_b_d
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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by a_b_d » Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:07 pm

The feature list was a community-driven effort:

Some features were mined from this thread (which sparked this project): viewtopic.php?f=16&t=234009.

The rest were received through a field comment survey conducted over the last couple of weeks: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=236492&p=3332109&h ... s#p3332109.

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lisa
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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by lisa » Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:28 pm

a_b_d wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:59 am
Great question! I would recommend considering your "perfect world" -- don't worry about cost implications for the purposes of this survey.
It isn't just about cost, though. If every maker had to write an exhaustive manual before they could release a module, many modules might not be released at all, or they might be delayed.

Anyway, I answered the survey as if I could have anything I want at no cost or consequence to me or anyone else. :party:
909, manic trilling courtesy of Make Noise René and DPO, wavetable bass by Disting and some soft melodies by the Korg Minilogue. I mainly sat and watched it all unfold. :eek:


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synth.void
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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by synth.void » Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:23 pm

It was hard to not answer "absolutely essential" to everything.

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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by sduck » Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:16 pm

synth.void wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:23 pm
It was hard to not answer "absolutely essential" to everything.
Just because we're all different, I ended up with the second option, "nice but not essential" for almost everything.
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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by BlinkyLights » Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:34 pm

I took the survey.

At least half of all that should be the baseline for all, imo.

It will be interesting to see the results.

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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by luketeaford » Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:42 pm

I don't have an opinion on most of it. I was going to say reverse power protection is essential, but I'd buy an original QMMG without it if the price is right and probably some of my Doepfer modules don't have it. And I wouldn't know because I am careful when plugging things in.

Similar thing with licenses-- does the license require attribution? Then my opinion has no bearing on it at all.

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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by Ivo Ivanov » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:27 pm

edit: fuck this thread
Last edited by Ivo Ivanov on Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by closedLoop » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:05 pm

a_b_d wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:22 am
Is there something you wish every Eurorack module had? Think reverse power protection, comprehensive documentation, or user-updatable firmware.
I think every single eurorack enduser would want every single one of those 3 'features'.

I can imagine that some of the smaller manufacturers would cringe at those demands, because it would make them responsible for all of the dumb things people do with their modules.

Did I blow up a V1 Intellijel uStep? Yes.
Was it my fault? Yes.
Would reverse power protection have saved it? Yes.
If Intellijel had included reverse protection in the circuit, would I have learned my lesson? No.

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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by M_Johnson » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:18 pm

Did it

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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by mdoudoroff » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:29 pm

I got three pages into the survey and stopped because every question that far was, in my opinion, pointless.

Every Eurorack producer has their own disposition on all these matters, they don’t all match, and that’s ok. That’s Eurorack.

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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by Elahrairah » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:46 pm

Ivo Ivanov wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:27 pm
It would be insanely great if module makers stopped using cheaper parts only because the more expensive (and usually better) alternative would add 2 dollars to the cost of a module! I would love to see this end (and yes I understand that it doesn’t apply to all manufacturers but over the years I have heard the argument way too many times that x part will add x dollars to the cost.
It seems like $2 to us, but the designer needs a few spares to burn, the manufacturer needs a bucketload, the maintainer needs spares. Every part is x1000 in the supply chain. Also the part may become unavailable if it was too unique. Better to use commodity parts and let the factories decide the cost. Or else I could make a Cwejman level part, and have Behringer clone it next year.

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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by KSS » Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:28 am

Elahrairah wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:46 pm
Or else I could make a Cwejman level part, and have Behringer clone it next year.
And when that happens, you'll be fine. Because the clone will be Behringer level and your Cwejman level is aimed at a different audience.

I very much doubt that lambo sales are affected much by what Volkswagen does.

-----------------------
someone earlier in the thread said "everybody would want all three". One of those being reverse power protection. Count me out of that group. I much prefer the benefits gained by NOT having that, at the cost of my needing to be more careful and attentive when connecting new modules. I note that some modules can gain the benefit of reverse power protection without a downside. Mostly those are a digital type.
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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by lisa » Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:03 am

KSS wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:28 am
I very much doubt that lambo sales are affected much by what Volkswagen does.
Well, VW owns Lamborghini so.. :hihi: ..but I get your point.

However, getting into the high end of the market without being Lamborghini or Cwejman might be quite tough. Why would most folks choose your expensive product when there are way less expensive alternatives?
909, manic trilling courtesy of Make Noise René and DPO, wavetable bass by Disting and some soft melodies by the Korg Minilogue. I mainly sat and watched it all unfold. :eek:


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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by Tonescape » Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:34 am

Looking forward to the results!
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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by acidbob » Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:54 am

I would like to in every PSU that a safety warning would alarm when getting too close to the max. Power limit, by light or a meter.
It could also shut down when power is so close to the limit that it becomes instable.
Other than that I am pretty happy with how things have worked out over the years

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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by KSS » Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:17 am

lisa wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:03 am
KSS wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:28 am
I very much doubt that lambo sales are affected much by what Volkswagen does.
Well, VW owns Lamborghini so.. :hihi: ..but I get your point.
That's why I chose to use those as my example actually. Went to school with a guy pretty high up in lambo's org chart.
However, getting into the high end of the market without being Lamborghini or Cwejman might be quite tough. Why would most folks choose your expensive product when there are way less expensive alternatives?
Aaannndd, answering that precise question is the answer! There are *many* different ways to 'justify' -in the mind of a customer- a higher price. Some of them have nothing to do with the product itself.

L1's gold and black PCBs and extra rear panel one good example. But he also uses more expensive and specialized ICs to back up the 'fluffier' aspects of his offers. Limited availability is another we see with Cwejman. And Macbeth. Heavy steel, large size, TH parts. Resistor and capacitor 'magic' and other 'mojo' buy-ins.

Then there are the more solid reasons -some of which this survey addresses- like document quality. Quality of customer service. <--wasn't on the survey?!?

The real and ultimate answer is to decide that price is not where or how you want to compete. Making the conscious choice to go high-end is the first -and maybe most important- step. Nearly every answer to questions changes after making that decision. And the sum total of those answers are the answer to your question why would someone pay more when they could pay less..
Treat utility modules as stars instead of backup singers.
Treat power supplies like Rockstars instead of roadies!
Chase magic sound, not magic parts.

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lisa
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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by lisa » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:23 am

KSS wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:17 am
lisa wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:03 am
KSS wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:28 am
I very much doubt that lambo sales are affected much by what Volkswagen does.
Well, VW owns Lamborghini so.. :hihi: ..but I get your point.
That's why I chose to use those as my example actually. Went to school with a guy pretty high up in lambo's org chart.
Interesting. Since Lamborghini is very much affected by what VW does I'm guessing that I'm actually not getting the point at all then. :confused:
KSS wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:17 am
The real and ultimate answer is to decide that price is not where or how you want to compete. Making the conscious choice to go high-end is the first -and maybe most important- step. Nearly every answer to questions changes after making that decision. And the sum total of those answers are the answer to your question why would someone pay more when they could pay less..
Sure, I agree. But I think that route is a tough one. I don't think that many consumers care about getting high end parts when normal parts seem to work fine. And much of the mojo you are talking about is hard to convey for a new, unknown company.
909, manic trilling courtesy of Make Noise René and DPO, wavetable bass by Disting and some soft melodies by the Korg Minilogue. I mainly sat and watched it all unfold. :eek:


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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by KSS » Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:15 am

@lisa
The point is that the high end and the low end brands can both be served by the xame org. But that they don't confuse the two brands as one. They are separately marketed, managed and do not compete with each other.
I probably should have been more detailed and said, I very much doubt Lambo sales are affected by what the Volkswagen branded retail division does.
--------
The toughest thing about choosing the higher end path is that it usually takes more capital. Your point that "many consumers don't care" is exactly what I was saying. The answers are different. The higher end brand isn't looking for the "many consumers" who don't care. They're instead looking for the few who do. And are therefore willing to pay more. Parts and mojo are only part of the whole picture. And like i said may not even be the important part.

But it doesn't have to mean Lambo's, Cwejman and Macbeth level items. Or sparse well-to-do customers.

Beats sold a bunch of cheap headphones very expensively -in relative terms- by associating with an influencer and putting heavier steel weights in the ears than their equally -technically- well-performing competitors. Maybe one could try to make a case that the increased weight was for some sonic or wearability reason, and the influencer producer association meant a better product. Yet even when that case *is* made and the thing is shown to be smoke and mirrors, the marketing answers have already done their job and that's the result of the decision to go for the higher price in the first place.
Treat utility modules as stars instead of backup singers.
Treat power supplies like Rockstars instead of roadies!
Chase magic sound, not magic parts.

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a_b_d
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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by a_b_d » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:22 am

Anyone know a moderator at lines? Tried to post there but they deleted my account and blocked my IP address :eek:

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Re: Vote now! Eurorack Essential Features Survey 2020

Post by jebusrice » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:41 am

Completed.

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