What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

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Justa Ghost
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What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Justa Ghost » Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:32 pm

Note: Thanks to everyone's help, this rack has been though a few iterations. Sorry for any confusion if the comments don't line up

Here is the MG setup:
(current iteration) https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1354841
(third iteration) https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1352899
(second iteration) https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1347475
(first iteration) https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1352568

I'm pretty new to Eurorack, and after a couple months of research I've decided to DIY an 11U 104hp case with a 7U top and a 4U bottom so that I can build it in 2 stages. I'll build the 4U rack first so that I can get my feet wet and jam with stuff. I don't have to get everything at once, and I'm open to exchanging modules if things don't work out. Is there anything you think I need/don't need?
Last edited by Justa Ghost on Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:12 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Raindeer
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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Raindeer » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:56 am

This looks like such a great 5-module combo. I wish I had them all. Just one thought...

SWN and QPAS are amazing stereo modules but Erbe-verbe only has mono in which seems a shame considering your other choices. Did you consider a stereo effect instead? (e.g. Mimeophon or Desmodus Versio - just random examples.)

For the same reason perhaps consider a dual VCA for your remaining 6hp. QPAS has its own single VCA but you might prefer to control each of your stereo channels separately.

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Justa Ghost » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:38 am

Raindeer wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:56 am
SWN and QPAS are amazing stereo modules but Erbe-verbe only has mono in which seems a shame considering your other choices.
Good catch on the mono input for the erbe-verb, definitely a shame. Maybe I can hold out for a v2 with stereo input and get some other stuff instead. That gives me another 20hp to work with.
Last edited by Justa Ghost on Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Justa Ghost » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:30 am

Any thoughts on the 4ms DLD? It has stereo i/o and its 20 hp. With that and maybe a 6hp dual-vca, that fills up the rack.

I'm thinking of putting a vca in the 1U row however, so I could probably put something else in the 6hp.

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Foghorn » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:00 pm

The Intellijel 1U VCAs are perfect (dual VCA)
8 hp though
Loose your multiple and you could fit one.
Use stackable cables instead of a multiple.
Or,
use a Duatt instead of Quadratt and fit two VCAs
Last edited by Foghorn on Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Sleepfc » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:03 pm

I think an fx aid would really help out a smaller case like this

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Justa Ghost » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:50 pm

Foghorn wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:00 pm
The Intellijel 1U VCAs are perfect (dual VCA)
8 hp though
Loose your multiple and you could fit one.
Use stackable cables instead of a multiple.
Or,
use a Duatt instead of Quadratt and fit two VCAs
I could also take out the power entry and use something more built in, since it'll be a diy case.

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Justa Ghost » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:56 pm

Sleepfc wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:03 pm
I think an fx aid would really help out a smaller case like this
It would be nice to have so many effects from the get go, but I'd prefer to have individual modules for each effect to give me full creative control rather than a convenient multi tool. This is only the first part of the case for me to play around with, and I will expand later with 7U anyway. Also, I can route/record the audio into my DAW and use effects/plugins there if I really need it, so I'd like modules centered more on creativity and less on

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by bedhed3000 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:14 pm

Are you planning on sending modulation into the rack from a DAW (or something else) via the PolyEnd? If not, I think you have a lot of modulation inputs and not nearly enough modulation sources. A few suggestions:
Pons Asinorum - quad envelope w/ variable shape and looping
Takaab 3LFO - simple, three LFOs in 6HP, use Maths to spice them up
Ochd - 8 simple LFOs in 4hp, again use Maths with this to get more complex shapes
Get rid of the passive mult and the scope and get the Intellijel Noise Tools 1U (noise, random triggers, clock source, S&H, slew)
Same as above, but get 3 different 1U NLC Sloths - basically the Triple Sloths in 1U

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Justa Ghost » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:32 pm

bedhed3000 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:14 pm
Are you planning on sending modulation into the rack from a DAW (or something else) via the PolyEnd? If not, I think you have a lot of modulation inputs and not nearly enough modulation sources.
The Poly2 is mostly for giving me polyphonic midi input, but I figured it would be a good way of future proofing my rack for any controllers I might get down the line. I have a novation launch control Xl, but I'm not sure if that will work with the poly2. Tbh, its a bit much for what I need, but if I want polyphonic midi, then there are few other options. The poly2 will let me send pitch and gate to all 6 of the SWN's oscilators.

Thanks for the advice, I'll check out your suggestions. I wasn't sure if I needed an LFO module since the SWN comes with 6. Also, if I make room for the 1U noise tools, that gives me another 12hp in the 1U row, I could get an FSR maybe, a power entry, or more vcas :) What would you fill it with?
Last edited by Justa Ghost on Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by bedhed3000 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:39 pm

Ok, wow I didn't realize that thing had a bunch of LFO outputs. That is pretty rad.

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Justa Ghost » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:45 pm

There is also an intellijel 1U LPG, but I don't think I can really utilize it without a proper gate sequencer

edit: the Pons Asinorum could help here
Last edited by Justa Ghost on Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Justa Ghost » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:58 pm

bedhed3000 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:39 pm
Ok, wow I didn't realize that thing had a bunch of LFO outputs. That is pretty rad.
Although, I don't think they are cv controllable. You might be right about getting more LFOs/VCOs. That Pons Asinorum looks dope.

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Foghorn » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:43 am

Justa Ghost wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:58 pm
Although, I don't think they are cv controllable. You might be right about getting more LFOs/VCOs
That Pons Asinorum looks dope.
When it comes to LFOs/VCOs, I like modules that are both.
Then you get to choose what they are used for.
.
In Modulargrid use search functions like "Function: Oscillator", "Second function: LFO.
.
Intellijel Dixie II comes to mind but only because I have several of them.
I also have and like Steady State Fate Modbox.
And, Erica Synths Pico VCO is a great little LFO/VCO.
.
Plus I have some old modules that are not available new like Noise Engineering Sync Iter.
Sync Iter is not listed as an LFO but is great for modulation.
.
However I want an OCHD :hyper:
And the N.E. Pons Asinorum, that looks useful.
I want one !
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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Justa Ghost » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:10 pm

I’m having second thoughts on the DLD. The effect is stereo and would be cool, but since its digital, I can most likely just use a similar effect in my DAW. I don’t have to go DAWless any time soon. The SWN is also digital, but is unique and full featured enough that I can justify getting it.

20hp is a decent amount to work with. If I went without an effects module, what do you think should be my next focus? The SWN unfortunately doesn’t take envelope/gate input so I’m thinking of getting something that complements the pons. With the poly2, I could use the pons to generate 4 envelopes for max 4 voices right? I could get a mixer and other analogue voices to play with. It would be fun to load a crazy voice into the wavetable.

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Justa Ghost » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:39 pm

I revised the rack quite a bit and made a new post, thanks for the input everyone. viewtopic.php?f=16&t=238954

With the changes, it has up to 4 voice polyphony for the SWN, loads of cv and sequencing tools, and an extra VCO/LFO

Too many or few modulation sources? I didn't have room for a bigger mixer, but am I correct in thinking that I can achieve a stereo mix with the SWN and TS-L using the duatt and two dual vcas?

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Raindeer » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:23 am

Looks good to me.

No problem with SWN. Without a mixer, I guess for the TS-L to be in stereo rather than hard-panned left or right you might want to split the output signal into both channels - perhaps with a stacking patch cable.

QPAS will also do that automatically since the Left input is normalled to both outputs. Then the radiate parameters will create stereo effects even with a mono input.

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Arneb » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:44 am

What's that quantizer supposed to do? I'm asking because, if your pitch CV comes from Mutant Brain, then there's no need for a quantizer since MIDI note values already are discrete.

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by foliephonics » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:27 am

Suggestion for future generations : keep your original MG unchanged and create news ones as need be. The first replies here refer to something that has changed along the way and I couldn't understand what they were refering to... and I now don't want to make the effort. :despair:

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Justa Ghost » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:09 am

foliephonics wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:27 am
Suggestion for future generations : keep your original MG unchanged and create news ones as need be.
What I learned today

Here's a rack of how it started, if you're curious. https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1352568
Last edited by Justa Ghost on Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Justa Ghost » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:29 am

Arneb wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:44 am
What's that quantizer supposed to do? I'm asking because, if your pitch CV comes from Mutant Brain, then there's no need for a quantizer since MIDI note values already are discrete.
The quantizer is for the cv and sequencing tools. With the mutant brain, I only get 4 pitches max, but there are 2 more oscillators on the SWN and there's also the Ts-L. I'll have more options when it comes to actually producing sound, and it's easier to turn knobs when you don't have to simultaneously play a keyboard.

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by esmooov » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:04 am

Hi Ghost,

I've been spending some time looking at your grid and I have a few thoughts.

1.) I'm not sure if it's immediately obvious, but there is a mode in the SWN that allows for 6-voice polyphony without external envelopes/VCAs. 6 of the CV jacks become gate jacks that generate internal envelopes based on using the internal LFOs as one-shots. Granted you lose the ability to modulate wavetable variables through these repurposed CV jacks, but thought it was worth mentioning. Look at "CV/Gate and CV/Gate/Sustain Modes" in the manual. Beyond that, using the Pons to create 4-voice "polyphony" is only partially possible, because, in VCA mode, all voices will transpose together (it's almost like an inverted paraphony in that each envelope/vca is independently controlled and the roots of each voice are independently assignable [or spread controlled], but there's only one pitch input, the global transpose).

2.) As others have noticed, I'm not sure the quantizer is essential. Pitch CV from the mutant brain will already be quantized based on your input device and the SWN has an internal quantizer as well. Sure, you could plug, say your Clep or your noise into the quantizer for the TS-L, but that might be a bit of an edge-case, in practice, especially if you want to make it musical wrt whatever is coming out of the mutant brain. Remember, that the SWN relies on its spread to create musical chords, so you don't need to feed every voice independent CV.

3.) You might want to consider replacing the Clep + Pons + Lapsus section with an integrated, four-channel modulation source like the Quadrax, the Zadar, the Quadigy or the Kermit. I doubt you will be often using all four envelopes out of the pons and it would give you a lot of flexibility, fun things to play with (especially given that this is your first eurorack rig). Sure, you already have 6 LFOs in your SWN, but you a fair amount of immediacy and control over those LFOs for their integration. Having four, full-featured envelopes, LFOs, burst generators, etc really unlocks a lot of modulation possibilities.

4.) Presently, other than your LPG, you only have linear VCAs. Most of the time I'm using linear VCAs to control audio, but you might find that a controllable VCA in your 3u section is worth the hp, for running CV through your VCAs. I find myself constantly tweaking offset and response on my VCAs when I'm controlling CV, using envelopes to shape LFOs, say.

5.) Overall, you have a well-balanced rack, but I feel compelled to note that a lot of this rig depends on the idiosyncrasy of the of SWN to fully work. The SWN is very cool and very capable, but as you are just getting started in eurorack, I honestly think that starting on the right side of your case and making a monophonic TS-L based voice would be more fun. There's so much you could just do with Ts-L + Maths + VCA + QPAS, that I worry adding the SWN to the rig, might actually spoil the learning and experimentation experience. Presently, the SWN manual is 44 densely-typed pages and it is almost/basically an all-in-one voice. I know everyone always says "start slow" and then no one actually listens (I'm guilty too) but I really wish I had spent time with a single oscillator and filter before I got my more complex modules, especially given that you've already chosen a pretty complex filter to start.

Just my two cents.

Erik

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Justa Ghost » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:59 pm

@esmooov you bring up some great points, so Ill have to do some hard thinking and maybe back up a bit with the SWN.

A few thoughts come to mind before I start browsing and modifying things:

If I’m serious about the SWN, which I’ve had my doubts on, it would behoove me to find the manual online and do more research. From what I saw in demo videos, I can really only input pitch from my midi keyboard, since envelopes are triggered automatically on a cv change. I thought that I would take the note gates and run them through pons to generate modulation whenever I hit a note, possibly into the SWN itself, or to the qpas. I can also use the Ts-L to load a custom wavetable into the SWN to save presets, and then let it play itself while I fiddle more with the Ts-L.

As for the 2 dual vcas, I was planning on multing the mono signal and mixing it to one for the left and one for the right. Then I could change the levels with the duatt. If I had a stereo mixer in the rig then things would be different, I was eyeing the make noise x-pan.

If I were to ditch the SWN, would it be best to give up on polyphony for now and focus on one or two main oscilators? Would you still get rid of the clep + pons + lapsus?

If I have enough room, I’ve been eyeing the Cs-L

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Justa Ghost » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:05 am

Here's the newest iteration: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1352899

Thanks for all the help so far. I may have gone a little far with the overhaul, but I redesigned the rack around a single or double voice from the intellijel 1U midi, replacing the SWN with the arguably just as complicated Cs-L. I took out the noise engineering modules for now; I am realizing how specialized they are and would probably benefit from more versatile multi channel cv generators like esmooov suggested. The only 3U modules that stayed are maths and qpas.

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Re: What would you use to complete/modify this 4U 104hp rack?

Post by Squallaz » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:12 am

What are you using maths for here? I would consider changing it for a SSF S.P.O. + Mimeophone or Ochd + Mimeophone combo.
You have a lot of mixing potential with the quad vco and qadratt. If you need more lfos ochd is perfect and if you need a polarizer i guess the S.P.O. is ok. You don't have an effect module, mimeophone is a dilay + reverb (kinda).

EDIT: i think you need more modulation, the 2 lfos on maths are not going to make a difference, i would take ochd. Stages is super flexible but if you use it as an eg it can run out of outs quickly (3 ad envelopes or 2 asr envelopes or 1 ad + adsr evnelopes).

EDIT: of fuck you already added an ochd, i didn't even see it sorry LOL

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