Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by Smapti » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:59 pm

IMO you can definitely get the generative side of Autechre in eurorack, but obtaining the heavily processed DSP sound would be a whole lot harder -- probably impossible. There are all kinds of deep tricks in max/msp that don't have any analogs in eurorack as far as I know. One example is spectral/FFT effects; although there are some modules that do this kind of thing, they aren't going to get you anywhere near what computers can do. I don't think there's even anything like the Spec Ops VST in eurorack, let alone deeper programming like max/msp. (These are the tools I used to use to try to get the Autechre sound, before I realized that it's extremely difficult and gave up.)

To be clear, I'm not trying to say negative stuff about eurorack here -- it's just that there are some things computers do better, just as there are lots of things eurorack does better. You might be able to get there with a hybrid rack/computer setup using something like Ableton's CV Tools.

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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by xidnpnlss » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:52 pm

Theyve pushed back on the idea of their patches in hardware. But id love for their reverb to be ported to a unit.
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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by ignatius » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:57 pm

xidnpnlss wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:52 pm
Theyve pushed back on the idea of their patches in hardware. But id love for their reverb to be ported to a unit.
they've built some incredible reverbs! all over NTS and el-seq and exai.. it's incredible to listen to on a decent system in a good space or some nice headphones. the reverbs are so textural or something. embedded in the synthesis or something.

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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by xidnpnlss » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:29 pm

Totally agreed. I listen on my Genelecs or Sennheiser HD600 and it's head and shoulders above any other artistic reverb I've heard. Sooo rich.
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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by architexture » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:39 pm

Check out "traditional synthesizer music" by venetian snares. It's all eurorack

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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by kesserich » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:24 pm

Smapti wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:59 pm
IMO you can definitely get the generative side of Autechre in eurorack, but obtaining the heavily processed DSP sound would be a whole lot harder -- probably impossible. There are all kinds of deep tricks in max/msp that don't have any analogs in eurorack as far as I know. One example is spectral/FFT effects; although there are some modules that do this kind of thing, they aren't going to get you anywhere near what computers can do. I don't think there's even anything like the Spec Ops VST in eurorack, let alone deeper programming like max/msp. (These are the tools I used to use to try to get the Autechre sound, before I realized that it's extremely difficult and gave up.)

To be clear, I'm not trying to say negative stuff about eurorack here -- it's just that there are some things computers do better, just as there are lots of things eurorack does better. You might be able to get there with a hybrid rack/computer setup using something like Ableton's CV Tools.
I think you're basically right: dsp sourcery is much easier/cheaper on computers than in hardware and that's one of the big reasons i will never ditch my DAW. I'm a pretty big max user myself and while you can find some really cool dsp max externals(just like you can find some cool reaktor ensembles), i think max really shines at control. Prior to bigwig, for instance, max was basically the only way you can hook up an lfo to a VST plugin for instance.
Re autechre, I seriously doubt they are tweaking filter coefficients at home. They are probably using max mostly for control and maybe doing some *basic* hacking on community built externals.

Back in the day there was a lot of buzz around kyma for this purpose, but i think things have simmered down and nowadays my read is that plain old VST's are probably your best bet for dsp manglingly. The problem is that building a dsp platform is just a massive job and seems to be beyond the scope of any single company. Shit, there are companies that *just* make reverbs and other companies that *just* code up filters. There have been several attempts in euro to build dsp platforms but without tons of coders ready to build for them, i don't see how they can really succeed. Maybe someone with a kyma, eventide, or nord mod can correct me here?

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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by ignatius » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:37 pm

architexture wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:39 pm
Check out "traditional synthesizer music" by venetian snares. It's all eurorack
actually no it isn't. his modular is a lot of modules made by a friend of his. also lot's of drums are from an elektron Machinedrum. he performs all the songs live and does multiple takes to get the good ones.

he's got some eurorack for sure as seen in this video but it's clear that a lot of his modular is custom made in a format that is not eurorack.


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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by stylesforfree » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:48 pm

Definitely the rossum control forge and a complex vco of some kind, plenty of gating and triggering multiple sound sources in a rhythmical manner.

I love making patches in an autechre style.

I would say the 4ms enemble oscillator could cover 60%-70% of the ground you wish to cover, a long with a quad modulation source and a bunch of attenuators.

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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by adg672 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:54 pm

Arbhar and Lubadh under heavy modulation and resampling can get you interesting places

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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by GUM » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:04 pm

Mysteron, Telharmonic, Erbe-Verbe and Akemies Castle / Taiko are all good euro-'voices' that when heavily modulated and sequenced can yield some highly Autechre-ian sounds. Mysteron with Tides + Maths + Zularic Repepitor is a combo in particular that was always able to get me into AE territory.

But as has been stated above, their gift for sequencing and for 'playing' reverb / space is really difficult to replicate. I remember getting a Nord Lead 2x and it had a very LP5 / cichli suite preset: that sorta twinkly and bendy FM sound. It wasn't anything special on its own, but if sequenced by the G2 or Max you could probably achieve something spot on.
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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by Chartreuse-J » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:38 pm

NTS Session 1 through 4 is one of the best mathematical contemplation I've heard of the real world in an abstract sense. In lay terms, just play it while driving and you will see, all 4 sessions are awesome. Those are my favorite.

I have yet to recreate Autechre on my euro.
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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by medium Rob » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:15 am

AE_LIVE_DUBLIN (2015), along with some of the other 2015 sets are tops... some of the wildest sound designs i've ever heard, and definitely one of the best shows (Denver, Colorado, Oct. '15 at the Bluebird Theater) i've ever experienced. the sounds were massive, visual. it was like going to the movies, but the audio was the (visceral, abstract, enveloping) movie

here's a good interview- https://www.residentadvisor.net/features/2756

Melbourne (2018) is also worth a gander

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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by windchill » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:03 am

Chartreuse-J wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:38 pm
NTS Session 1 through 4 is one of the best mathematical contemplation I've heard of the real world in an abstract sense. In lay terms, just play it while driving and you will see, all 4 sessions are awesome. Those are my favorite.

I have yet to recreate Autechre on my euro.
I agree. I think a lot of people sort of bypassed the NTS Sessions because of their incredible length and a degree of Autechre fatigue. I did too for a while but I now think the NTS Sessions contain some of Autechre's best work.
Moving beyond standard album length allowed magic to happen - including an astonishing shimmering, stuttering, digital drone which goes on for an hour.

As for late Autechre in eurorack. Seriously, no. It's the sound of Max/Msp. I think it would be a struggle just to get the complexity of the generative systems with Eurorack, before we consider any sound. I used to do this sort of thing on my fully expanded Nord Modular G2 and would often max the whole thing out.
There are digital modules, some of which have already been suggested, which might superficially get you some of the way, but a lot of them are not really very modular, they're complex, prepackaged, specialised modules. Sure you might be able to modulate things but you don't have access to lower-level building blocks. It's these low-level components that allow you to build truly inter-related systems, and to break down the boundaries between control, voice, space.

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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by ch3oh » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:42 am

My approach would be:
Elektron Machinedrum under heavy modulation and assortment of modules to enhance that: Rossums Assimil8or for lush stereo textures, chords and other pre-made sounds; Instruo Arbhar for more textural work; IME Bionic Lester; Intellijel Rainmaker for crazy delays; Happy Nerding FX aid or MN Erbe Verb at the end of chain; sequencers and other utilities to taste; and as many Befaco VCMC / CV thing as you could reasonably pack to modulate the said Machinedrum.

But, as other have said, if you don't mind Max/MSP, this is probably the way to go.
Here's how Machinedrum sounds when modulated by the Max/MSP patch I made the other day:


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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by ari ellis » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:43 am

ch3oh wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:42 am
My approach would be:
Elektron Machinedrum under heavy modulation and assortment of modules to enhance that: Rossums Assimil8or for lush stereo textures, chords and other pre-made sounds; Instruo Arbhar for more textural work; IME Bionic Lester; Intellijel Rainmaker for crazy delays; Happy Nerding FX aid or MN Erbe Verb at the end of chain; sequencers and other utilities to taste; and as many Befaco VCMC / CV thing as you could reasonably pack to modulate the said Machinedrum.

But, as other have said, if you don't mind Max/MSP, this is probably the way to go.
Here's how Machinedrum sounds when modulated by the Max/MSP patch I made the other day:

Extremely cool! Would you be willing to share your Max patch? I've been trying to get out of my usual patterns (pun semi-intended) with my machinedrum and I'd love to reverse-engineer what you've got happening there.

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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by xidnpnlss » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:57 am

Absolutely agreed on NTS. Their best yet from this current Max/MSP period. Exai second.

NTS sounds like the they reached the point they'd been trying to get since Exai. For all its sprawl, it's masterfully executed.
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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by ch3oh » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:18 am

ari ellis wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:43 am
Extremely cool! Would you be willing to share your Max patch? I've been trying to get out of my usual patterns (pun semi-intended) with my machinedrum and I'd love to reverse-engineer what you've got happening there.
Absoultely! I've attached the amxd file. I should've noted, that this is a Max for Live device rather than a separate patch, but the idea should come across anyway.

In a nutshell, there are 8 tables of 128 random values each. You can choose the CC#, a table to read, a number of items to read from that table before returning to the item 0 and clock division, at which the table is read to produce new CC values. A button randomizes all the tables. It is very rough around the edges so you'll have to look up CC# you need in MDs manual and the settings are not stored with a live set AFAIK, but I'm fine with that. The notes themselves are triggered by modulated Ableton arpeggiator.
Attachments
MD Controller 0.3 copy.amxd.zip
(12 KiB) Downloaded 12 times

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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by ari ellis » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:26 am

ch3oh wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:18 am
ari ellis wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:43 am
Extremely cool! Would you be willing to share your Max patch? I've been trying to get out of my usual patterns (pun semi-intended) with my machinedrum and I'd love to reverse-engineer what you've got happening there.
Absoultely! I've attached the amxd file. I should've noted, that this is a Max for Live device rather than a separate patch, but the idea should come across anyway.

In a nutshell, there are 8 tables of 128 random values each. You can choose the CC#, a table to read, a number of items to read from that table before returning to the item 0 and clock division, at which the table is read to produce new CC values. A button randomizes all the tables. It is very rough around the edges so you'll have to look up CC# you need in MDs manual and the settings are not stored with a live set AFAIK, but I'm fine with that. The notes themselves are triggered by modulated Ableton arpeggiator.
Thanks a ton! Max for Live is even better for my workflow, this will be fun to play with.

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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by aragorn23 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:06 am

I guess Richard Devine comes pretty close to Autechre in terms of crazy sound design chops, so perhaps it's worth having a look at how he does what he does. I've seen some 100% modular stuff from him that's pretty wild.

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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by lisa » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:44 am

aragorn23 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:06 am
I guess Richard Devine comes pretty close to Autechre in terms of crazy sound design chops, so perhaps it's worth having a look at how he does what he does. I've seen some 100% modular stuff from him that's pretty wild.
Yeah. So, just start with the RD setup and build from there.
409CE5A4-B733-4B35-A6CE-08FFC8B04099.jpeg
;)
909, manic trilling courtesy of Make Noise René and DPO, wavetable bass by Disting and some soft melodies by the Korg Minilogue. I mainly sat and watched it all unfold. :eek:


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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by boom blip » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:00 am

aragorn23 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:06 am
I guess Richard Devine comes pretty close to Autechre in terms of crazy sound design chops, so perhaps it's worth having a look at how he does what he does. I've seen some 100% modular stuff from him that's pretty wild.
He literally has half the modules that exist. The interesting thing about autechre or richard or aphex twin or any of the electronic music experimental greats is that it literally doesn't matter what gear they use at the end of the day it sounds like them. Autechre sounds like autechre out of max msp but they also do out of elektron gear boxes or the nord modular.

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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by mixxalot » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:14 am

I can get pretty close with my setup using Richter Anti-Oscillator + Dual Borg Filter with Noise Engineering BIA+ Cursus Iteritas and modulated by Batumi and Kermit and using Quadrax for random generator.

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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by xidnpnlss » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:13 am

Huh. I don't see a single analog sound source in RDs rig. I think one of the biggest draws of Euro is that you can manipulate analog so extremely.

I think it's also possible with a small setup to get close (or even equivalent) but it would require multiple takes. Put together a skeleton of a track - beat, leads, harmonies (whatever that means in Aedom) - and then repatch and rerecord for each part. Maybe not as expertly entangled as Ae but with some choice manual modulation you could maybe fake it. Not impossible imo.
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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by windchill » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:26 am

aragorn23 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:06 am
I guess Richard Devine comes pretty close to Autechre in terms of crazy sound design chops, so perhaps it's worth having a look at how he does what he does. I've seen some 100% modular stuff from him that's pretty wild.
The thing about Richard Devine for me is that, although the sound design is certainly there, the music isn't.
Autechre's music has moments of astonishing beauty that can melt my face. Devine leaves me cold. Always did, right back to the early days.

There, I've said it now.

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Re: Autechre - recreate on Eurorack?

Post by BrokenBo » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:36 pm

boom blip wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:00 am
aragorn23 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:06 am
I guess Richard Devine comes pretty close to Autechre in terms of crazy sound design chops, so perhaps it's worth having a look at how he does what he does. I've seen some 100% modular stuff from him that's pretty wild.
He literally has half the modules that exist. The interesting thing about autechre or richard or aphex twin or any of the electronic music experimental greats is that it literally doesn't matter what gear they use at the end of the day it sounds like them. Autechre sounds like autechre out of max msp but they also do out of elektron gear boxes or the nord modular.
this!

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