Which Joystick brings you joy?

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Bignorthumbrian
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by Bignorthumbrian » Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:51 am

Love my Planar 2, it’s so silky smooth and so many features
here hare here!

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Bubbles
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by Bubbles » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:51 am

Will no one make a laudable defense of the spring-loaded, return-to-zero joystick??

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ersatzplanet
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by ersatzplanet » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:39 pm

Bubbles wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:51 am
Will no one make a laudable defense of the spring-loaded, return-to-zero joystick??
Spring return is best used in keyboard use, used just like a pitch bend wheel and a mod wheel.
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by oliodnb » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:50 pm

suboptimal wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:29 pm
I have a Planar and a Choices and the Choices has been my preferred go-to for years, despite the extra bells and whistles on the Planar.

May I ask you why? You're not the fist person I see saying this but I never read an explanation.

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robotfunk
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by robotfunk » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:51 pm

Just removed the springs from my ol' Doepfer joystick and instant joy increase. On another note, why does almost every joystick have a round hole? As satisfying it can feel to go round in circles, is nobody missing positions like x=0, y=0?

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deftinwulf
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by deftinwulf » Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:14 pm

robotfunk wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:51 pm
On another note, why does almost every joystick have a round hole? As satisfying it can feel to go round in circles, is nobody missing positions like x=0, y=0?
I've often wondered this myself. I'd love it if someone could explain why this is never seen, from a technical perspective rather than subjective opinion.

I don't own any joystick modules, though I want all of them.

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peabreu
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by peabreu » Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:31 pm

Ain't the x=0 , y=0 the center of the spring loaded joystick?

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robotfunk
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by robotfunk » Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:34 pm

Depends where you center your coordinate system. In any case, the edge cases where both pots are at min or max can't be reached in a round joystick.

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robotfunk
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by robotfunk » Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:44 pm

Just realised my avatar image is the perfect illustration. The black corners are out of reach.

LunaticSound
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by LunaticSound » Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:58 pm

Geometry on a sphere is hard.

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Ears
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by Ears » Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:42 pm

Another Planar 2 fan here. For something joystick-like with return to zero I like the Expressive-e Touché - it’s not Eurorack but the outputs plug right into my Eurorack and it allow all kinds of fun sweeps and percussive hits. And boingy oscillations on the side to side axis.
Last edited by Ears on Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KSS
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by KSS » Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:09 pm

The joysticks without a center ball pivot can go to 0,0 and min/min to max,max. Like moogs first, and those based on Roland/Korg style pitch mod controllers.

It's super easy to DIY this kind of full-travel action using aluminum angle and hardware store shaft collars. When R/C hobbies besides airplanes grew in the 80s many of the newer less-expensive fully plastic molded joysticks used could reach the corners. I just walked over to the joystick bin and pulled out one originally from an MRC transmitter I think. Only 60 degrees lean though, compared to the 90 of Choices. The funny thing about it is that it only would need a rectangular hole. But it's molded with that rectangular hole inside of a much larger rimmed circle. It's designed to mount into a circular hole! But it can't reach the area of the circle it's designed to mount into. :lol: :confused:
----------------
Another way to look at the 'problem' is to re-define your coordinate system based on .707 of max/min value at 0,max/minY. Or max/minX,0
Now instead of not being able to reach the corners you have access to the arcs between that go beyond them! ;)

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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by adaris » Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:54 pm

I have both the Befaco and Choices, right next to each other, and I like them both. Love the feel of the Befaco, reminds me of an old Atari joystick, but of course if you want to be able to leave the joystick in a non-zero position then it's not the right "Choice(s)".

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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by M_Johnson » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:21 pm

The R and S pads on the Buchla 223e are pretty fucking amazing, they output the last touched location, so it's like a joystick without a spring. I know it's not a 'joystick" per se but its my favorite(and only one I have).

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ersatzplanet
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by ersatzplanet » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:34 pm

robotfunk wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:51 pm
Just removed the springs from my ol' Doepfer joystick and instant joy increase. On another note, why does almost every joystick have a round hole? As satisfying it can feel to go round in circles, is nobody missing positions like x=0, y=0?
The analogue Systems RS-220 joysticks have a square bezel. I had to remove springs from them.
AS Joystick.tif
AS Joystick.tif (494.39 KiB) Viewed 475 times
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Rex Coil 7
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:11 pm

Flight Of Harmony Choices (x2) .... Intellijel Planar 2 .... SoundMachines Lightplane .... SoundMachines LightStrip (2x) ... DotCom Q182JS Joystick ... DotCom Q182RP20 Ribbon Controllers (2x) ... Doepfer A-198 Trautonium manual/ribbon controller.

These are my currently adopted manual controllers (sans the 5 octave FATAR TP/9 keybed). All 10 of these devices provide their own way of doing things .... x/y .. vector .. touch response .. et al. Some offer gesture recording with gate triggered playback

The Lightplane is excellent in that instead of having to "go through" various voltages to get to whatever destination you're heading you may simply touch the XY touch surface (capacitive) at any point on the grid and immediately ~jump~ to that X/Y coordinance. It also has a 3rd ~axis~ that provides CV (0-10vdc). You may record any gestures up to about ten or so seconds long and play them back. Or you may set up the jumper links 'round back to that it will "replay" your gestures upon rec't of inbound gate signals. Your "jumps" (touches) are also recorded, not just your sweeping gestures. Jumpers may also be used to set the max output voltage (5vdc or 10vdc). It offers two Gate outs (one for X, one for Y) and three CV outs (X, Y, Z). It may be set to "hold mode" so where ever you last touched it, it continues to send voltages set at your last touch until you touch/sweep it again. So hold mode, release mode (lift finger, voltages return to 0vdc output), and record mode. Plus the gate/triggering thing and the recording thing. Well worth the $$.

The pair of LightStrips I have operate in much the same manner as the Lightplane. Difference being the Lightstrips are single channel voltage out-puters (really now!?!?). They still do the recording tricks, the gate triggered recorded gestures thing, and "regular" gesture recording as well. Same thing with the 5vdc/10vdc jumper link setup as the Lightplane.

Choices joystick is it's own critter. I've had both of mine for at least ten years now. Not just the X/Y outs and the Gate and Trigger outs, but it also may be used as a two channel attenuator for attenuating incoming signals (AC or DC). And of course due to the graphics design the Choices may be "flipped" so the I/O jacks are along the top of the module ... no messing around with taking the module apart and rotating the panel ... just mount the thing in your case with the jacks up, or jacks down. You have Choices ... ~ahem~ . (I'm playing at the Airport Hilton Lounge all week folks ... show starts at 11pm).

Planar 2 .... I've much work to do with this yet. So far, just two words ..... sick-ass bitch! (well, maybe that's three words .. STILL YO !!!!).

The DotCom ribbons are outstanding ... their 20 inch length and well thought out interface module makes them very useful. They don't offer a "hold mode" (the Doepfer ribbon does, however) but they do have "reverse" switches that make them operate ~backwards~ ... as your hand moves rightward the output voltage DEcreases when in "reverse" mode.

The DotCom joystick
is excellent. It's sprung-to-center design allows different ~tricks~ than a stick without center return springs. So I have two unsprung sticks and one sprung stick (the DotCom). It's that interface setup that makes it so different ... the very same interface system that pretty much ALL of the Q18XXX series controllers use. See here .... you can see that the ribbon controller interface and the joystick "interface" are the same stuff ... two channels of interface output controls (X/Y on the joystick, pressure and position on the ribbon interfaces).
DotCom Q182JS joystick - 01.jpg
DotCom Q182RP20 Ribbon Controller interface module - 01.jpg
Here's the case with the DotCom interfaces and the 5 octave keybed with the joystick and dual DotCom ribbons .. ........
Keyboard Controller - 13.jpg
Keyboard Controller - 8.jpg

(below) I've set up a little Euro 84HP controller case ... I'm too damned lazy today to shoot a picture so I'll just go with the current accepted status quo of posting a Modular Grid "rack" of all my bitchin shit ... cuz I'm a bitchin kinda guy ... with bitchin shit.

:roll:


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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by mhtones » Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:05 pm

I really like my Planar 2. The joystick action is fantastic and all of the built in functions are really useful. I do miss the built in attenuation and offset that the FoH Choices had. Those simple controls really made it easy to dial in precise modulation of parameters. With the Planar 2 alone, I need to make very small adjustments in the joystick. The Choices allowed me to set the entire joystick range for very small modulation movements. This ability cannot be understated. I had both for a while, but in the end sold the Choices only because I couldn't fit both in my case. I still miss it.

I know that I can just patch an attenuator and offset module after the Planar 2, but it doesn't have the same feel and requires an additional module and patch cables. Don't get me wrong, the Planar2 has lots of tricks that Choices can't do, so its still a great joystick. I just with it also had that attenuation and offset built in and it would be perfect!
FS/FT (US): What's next :hmm:

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Black
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re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by Black » Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:20 pm

mmelnick wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:09 pm
the new Doepfer joystick looks cool
It uses springs, and Doepfer is warning to remove them, they even refuse warranty if you do so.

Also I think the stick itself is just ridiculous if you do not plan to play starship commander.
Last edited by Black on Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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suboptimal
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by suboptimal » Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:57 pm

oliodnb wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:50 pm
May I ask you why? You're not the fist person I see saying this but I never read an explanation.
It's simpler and easier to dial in precise responses thanks to the bigger knobs. Fewer features, but I rarely use most of the Planar's features (for some resaon).

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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by dip_registered » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:48 pm

Bubbles wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:07 am
Overwhelmingly, wrigglers seem to prefer “stays put”. I’m surprised. I’m looking at the Flame JoyRec because I want fast triggers (on X coord) and modulation (on Y coord), then a quick return to zero.

Also like the CV recording option much.
Yep, cv recording on the flame is awesome. Not to mention looping, restarting etc. I wanted a planar so bad but it was too big for my rack, but now I’m really happy I went for the flame.
Sell me your Cwejman PH-8!

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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by Umcorps » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:02 am

mhtones wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:05 pm
. I do miss the built in attenuation and offset that the FoH Choices had. Those simple controls really made it easy to dial in precise modulation of parameters. With the Planar 2 alone, I need to make very small adjustments in the joystick. The Choices allowed me to set the entire joystick range for very small modulation movements. This ability cannot be understated.
And this is why choices is the best joystick evah :goo:

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exper
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by exper » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:09 am

To me it is more useful to have a full range of joystick voltage and attenuvert/offset at the destination modules. That way, one module is affected drastically, anther could have a small range, another inverted, etc. Set a small range from the source and everything gets a small range...
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KSS
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by KSS » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:59 am

@exper
It works both ways. Doing as you suggest requires large movements of the joystick itself, which may not fit with the desired 'feel, use and action. From the generating end of the picture. Destinations can always adjust to their needs. Sometimes it's useful to make an adjustment at the source.

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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by mixxalot » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:07 am

It would be cool if they made a phallic symbol joystick in gold leaf plated and called it the golden cock. Put a rooster icon next to it and would be fun case candy besides making a rooster crow cock sound echo whenever you modulate something. Damn I just came up with a cool idea for a new module!
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trickness
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Re: Which Joystick brings you joy?

Post by trickness » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:25 pm

mixxalot wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:07 am
It would be cool if they made a phallic symbol joystick in gold leaf plated and called it the golden cock. Put a rooster icon next to it and would be fun case candy besides making a rooster crow cock sound echo whenever you modulate something. Damn I just came up with a cool idea for a new module!
Why not go to the inverse way, and make a Golden Butthole that you stick your pinky into and wiggle around for modulation? Maybe make it a super tight fit as standard, but if you pour some red wine into the module and put on some Yanni, the resistance relaxes

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