Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

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OHEXOH
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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by OHEXOH » Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:51 pm

One more question :-)

What's the conceptual difference between Individual mode and Hex mode specifically when it comes to editing channels within each mode? It seems like you can edit channels just as freely within Hex mode as you can in Individual mode. So, I guess my question really is, what's the point (and difference) of Individual mode?

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by OHEXOH » Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:04 pm

Oh and for the record, the Mob of Emus pairs really nicely with Akemie's Taiko. :yay:
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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by dBVelocity » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:43 am

First off, sync of individual channels is only from manual tap input from what I gather as the trig jack affects the hex layer only regardless of mode.

Second, the knobs are so dang tight I don't dare pull any harder to see what's going on.. I see this as a pro where my youngest kid still occasionally tries to hide knobs from me.

Third, the difference for what I can tell is really about either having separate functions at their own pace and not tied to each other in any way or..The hex layer which clearly works as a macro for all ...but then you can select individual channels and offset from the macro and even change the function.. (mixed mode) ..this just means the individual functions are still tied by the macro and are thus potentially clocked together or whatnot.

In other words, just use the hex layer for clocking externally. :despair:

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by OHEXOH » Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:18 pm

dBVelocity wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:43 am
Third, the difference for what I can tell is really about either having separate functions at their own pace and not tied to each other in any way or..The hex layer which clearly works as a macro for all ...but then you can select individual channels and offset from the macro and even change the function.. (mixed mode) ..this just means the individual functions are still tied by the macro and are thus potentially clocked together or whatnot.

In other words, just use the hex layer for clocking externally. :despair:
Yes, I've concluded that the only benefit is complete independence from other channels and the ability to manually set tempo via the Tap button. But, you lose the Hex shifting ability. The benefit of Hex mode is you can still tweak each channel independently for the most part... which does make me wonder why have the option - it adds a layer of complexity that in my opinion isn't needed.

In general however, this module it very clever and has a lot of power. It's great in a small system and can perform many tasks. The built in attenuator really helps. I originally got it to replace a Just Friends as they share a lot of similarities. It's not quite as immediate, but it can do a lot of what JF does and more.
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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by TME » Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:36 pm

OHEXOH wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:18 pm
dBVelocity wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:43 am
Third, the difference for what I can tell is really about either having separate functions at their own pace and not tied to each other in any way or..The hex layer which clearly works as a macro for all ...but then you can select individual channels and offset from the macro and even change the function.. (mixed mode) ..this just means the individual functions are still tied by the macro and are thus potentially clocked together or whatnot.

In other words, just use the hex layer for clocking externally. :despair:
Yes, I've concluded that the only benefit is complete independence from other channels and the ability to manually set tempo via the Tap button. But, you lose the Hex shifting ability. The benefit of Hex mode is you can still tweak each channel independently for the most part... which does make me wonder why have the option - it adds a layer of complexity that in my opinion isn't needed.

In general however, this module it very clever and has a lot of power. It's great in a small system and can perform many tasks. The built in attenuator really helps. I originally got it to replace a Just Friends as they share a lot of similarities. It's not quite as immediate, but it can do a lot of what JF does and more.
I’m interested in the comparisons between mob of emus with Just Friends. Has anyone done some kind of head-to-head? Particularly curious about the potential for modulating partials of a Verbos harmonic oscillator in case anyone has tried that. A related question is the voltage range produced by the envelopes.

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by Dogma » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:36 pm

I’ve got both and they’re really nothing alike. So different I wouldn’t know where to begin...seems the moe has some firmware work to be usable outside of the presets
I’m used to complicated modules and have most of the rossum stuff and I’m far from being comfortable using it
I guess the main difference is the moe is all button combos and strange modalities underpinning it and JF is also very unique but it’s more voltage and dummy cables, then you have run which is just fantastic.....
I’d start with a jf first
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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by OHEXOH » Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:55 pm

TME wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:36 pm
I’m interested in the comparisons between mob of emus with Just Friends. Has anyone done some kind of head-to-head? Particularly curious about the potential for modulating partials of a Verbos harmonic oscillator in case anyone has tried that. A related question is the voltage range produced by the envelopes.
I also have both and disagree that they're nothing alike. As I mentioned previously, they share a lot of similarities...

Both
  • 6 outputs (gates, 1 shot envelopes & LFOs)
  • Control over envelope/LFO frequency rate
  • Various envelope/LFO shapes (Sine, Triangle, Ramp, Pulsewidth)
  • Harmonic relationships between channel frequencies
  • Macro control over all channels at once
  • Digital (tracks well)
  • Mix output

They're also different in various ways...

Just Friends
  • More immediate & 'hands on' with one knob per function operation
  • All 6 channels can be triggered independently but must all be the same 'type' (ie: 1 shot, looping, slow/fast rate)
  • Channel settings are always related (includes harmonically)
  • Wave shape blending with pulse width modulation
  • 0/8v output, no ability to attenuate
  • Run modes changes the operation of the module there are 6 of them and they can radically change how Just Friends operates

Mob of Emus
  • Denser interface with multi-mode buttons, states and preset saving
  • All 6 channels can be triggered independently and can be any type (wave / envelope / gate pattern / noise / 1 shot / looping)
  • Channel settings can be related or independent (includes harmonically)
  • Independent manual and CV control over channel's settings - CV control depends on CV mode setting
  • Discreet wave shapes with no pulse width modulation
  • Control over octave switching & phase
  • Preset channel harmonic relationships (if required)
  • Ability to mute channels
  • Skipping / Ratchetting
  • Quantization, scales per channel
  • Hard sync to channel 1 per channel
  • Random frequency variation per channel
  • -5/+5v output, with attenuation and DC offset per channel

This is by no means exhaustive but hopefully you get a sense of the similarities and differences.

I'd say they both require a reference manual but over time, Just Friends becomes more intuitive and easier to understand (maybe not the RUN modes though). What helps with Just Friends is the one knob per function - they make things very simple. I also find the small LEDs very useful, they clearly show you what each channel is doing. I like how the channels are related (from right to left) and it's very easy to use one channel to close a filter and the next one to the left close a VCA (a common use case). This relationship can be limiting however and you have to work with it. Additionally all the channels share settings - they are modulate-able at any time, but note all channels will be affected. In general, I find I can insert Just Friends into a patch at any point and understand how it will fit into things.

Mob of Emus packs a much bigger punch with more independent control over each channel. But with that control comes more complexity in operation. I find it sits right on the line of usability, I'm referencing the manual less and less but I'm not 100% comfortable yet. It helps that the panel is well labelled so understanding how to change each setting is pretty clear. However it is dense and the knobs are very close to one another. Mob of Emus also has LEDs that show each channels state but they don't work that well; you have to put it into a state to see each channel's output and you're kicked out of that state whenever you want to do any channel editing. The LEDs aren't great either, I find them hard to decode what they're showing you. This isn't helped by the fact that they're a single colour visualising a bipolar signal. An oscilloscope helps a lot here. Of course, you should use your ears, but these visual cues are useful especially if you're bringing the Mob of Emus into a patch midway.

Which is best for your set up and brain is up to you. As always... get both. :tu:
Last edited by OHEXOH on Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by TME » Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:42 pm

Awesome, thanks to you both! A healthy contrast in opinion (with also some similarity) and very informative. I’m leaning towards JF because of the knob per function and because a lot of my modules want hot modulation voltages. With that there’s still time for more research seeing as the JF isn’t going to be in stock for a while still.

Appreciated

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by dBVelocity » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:27 am

I've been thinking a bit about the dense UI and how an implementation of individual cv assignments could be handled, assuming it's on the radar.
There are already several button combos for many things but it suddenly seemed so obvious that a hold of the channel's button selector ( which selects it and deselects the others ) is a perfect gateway to then continue holding and then select the cv mode. It makes sense to keep the global cv in the option 2 mode but this could be an easy way to start operating different functions with greater independence. Then comes the question of how global cv perhaps overrides or resets all channels when desired.. Like say a double click of hex and hold?

Of coarse this is all speculation and whatnot.

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by OHEXOH » Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:17 pm

I like that simple solve
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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by OHEXOH » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:49 pm

Something which has caught me out on a number of occasions is the button combination for Select Preset vs. Select CV Input Mode. To select a Preset you tap a Preset button (or double-tap for the 2nd bank of Presets). To select CV Input Mode you double-tap + hold the Option button and then tap the corresponding Preset button - which in this combo will switch to the mode labelled in blue. Makes sense, Option button is blue and the CV mode buttons are labelled blue.

However, if you single-tap + hold the Option button and press the Preset button you don't change CV mode instead you change preset and you instantly lose all your settings.

So my question is, why is it only double-tap the option button? Why can't a single-tap also work? There is no conflict with any other combination and instead this combo isn't used... well it is used, it ends up changing presets which is not as it's labelled in the manual or in the panel design (blue labels require the option button). This approach of doubling up a single or double tap is implemented elsewhere for modes that don't have a second 'level'.

Going further with this, and to critique the panel design further, the Presets are labelled in Orange and elsewhere in the UX orange refers to HEX mode (eg: Warp is in orange) could loading/saving presets be done with the press of HEX and the Preset buttons? I say this as they're accidentally pressed and it's very easy to lose all your work. Adding a combination button to this would help avoid any accidental loading of Presets.

And finally (and I know this can't be fixed unfortunately), across the panel things that require the Option modifier are labelled in Blue. Except the CV In Multi button which is labelled in Black. On the panel, labels in Black are accessed with no Option button modifier. But pressing this button directly does not switch CV mode to Multi... it loads in Preset 1 (which is written in Orange). So again, you have to remember not to press that button on it's own as it will not switch to Multi but instead will load Preset 1 (and change all your settings).

This panel irks me a lot. Consistent design patterns are really important to get right and I think the Mob of Emus panel design is one of Rossum's poorest. Combined with the depth and multi state nature of this module makes it much harder to operate than it should be.

:hmm:
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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by dBVelocity » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:02 am

OHEXOH wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:49 pm
However, if you single-tap + hold the Option button and press the Preset button you don't change CV mode instead you change preset and you instantly lose all your settings.
This is an interesting area of function that has been left open, agreed. The option 1 layer would have made sense for CV assign with access from layer 2 like other controls with only one option.
OHEXOH wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:49 pm
So my question is, why is it only double-tap the option button? Why can't a single-tap also work? There is no conflict with any other combination and instead this combo isn't used... well it is used, it ends up changing presets which is not as it's labelled in the manual or in the panel design (blue labels require the option button). This approach of doubling up a single or double tap is implemented elsewhere for modes that don't have a second 'level'.
It would make more sense, although there may have been plans to keep this open for another function yet to be implemented.

Should they not use the option 1 on the preset buttons in later updates then this would be the logical move. A step further would be to allow option 2 as a gateway for changing cv types available e.g. cv of Warp. Though it could be Pandora's box of confusion. Option 1 layer controls are cv addressed from option 2 preset buttons? What about option 2 controls? How complex would new cv addresses to individual channels become should the channel's eventually exhibit individual cv assignments?

Ultimately the line will have to be drawn about what is actually useful here. Whether these things are even capable of and so on.

OHEXOH wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:49 pm
Going further with this, and to critique the panel design further, the Presets are labelled in Orange and elsewhere in the UX orange refers to HEX mode (eg: Warp is in orange) could loading/saving presets be done with the press of HEX and the Preset buttons? I say this as they're accidentally pressed and it's very easy to lose all your work. Adding a combination button to this would help avoid any accidental loading of Presets.
I actually would prefer the presets be labeled black as primary function. I have been saving variant presets and doing manual switching for effect. This is the main use of these buttons as I see it and is consistent with Panharmonium ..where switching cv mode, is often done in setup of a patch and then left alone. The additional light chase that occurs is also the biggest visual clue that I always verify before changing cv mode. Though l have noticed a couple rare times that the light chase does not occur in latched option mode when cycled through from layer 1.. it often does not repeat this glitch and it clears on the next cycle through so it's a bit of a non repro.

OHEXOH wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:49 pm
And finally (and I know this can't be fixed unfortunately), across the panel things that require the Option modifier are labelled in Blue. Except the CV In Multi button which is labelled in Black. On the panel, labels in Black are accessed with no Option button modifier. But pressing this button directly does not switch CV mode to Multi... it loads in Preset 1 (which is written in Orange). So again, you have to remember not to press that button on it's own as it will not switch to Multi but instead will load Preset 1 (and change all your settings).
I think a more correct print for Multi would be orange to refer that it's mainly for hex mode... And the presets again ought to have been black.

Alas, it is already released in the form it has. The preset buttons are living in their own little section apart from the real time controls (i.e. knobs) that follow the "color coded convention" as the manual indicates.
OHEXOH wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:49 pm
This panel irks me a lot. Consistent design patterns are really important to get right and I think the Mob of Emus panel design is one of Rossum's poorest. Combined with the depth and multi state nature of this module makes it much harder to operate than it should be.

:hmm:
To each their own, I have a much more difficult time getting Voltage Block to do the precise things I want..that is one I have to pull the manual out for again and again after all this time when going for specifics but I do enjoy the simple things from it too.

I've not had to do that for MOE except for the data dump and load utilities. I've really gelled with it overall. I have found one other little bug but I'm still not sure of the repro.. I'll maybe dig at it tonight and report back.

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by Sam Botstein » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:50 am

If you are experiencing an issue with any Rossum Electro-Music product, please consider updating your software and writing to us with your software version number and detailed steps to reproduce any potential bugs. We need to be able to recreate any potential bugs in order to understand and set about squashing them.

http://www.rossum-electro.com/support/s ... uest-form/

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by dBVelocity » Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:52 am

Ok so I've followed through and what is happening appears as this..

Using the Warp on a selected or all channels in the "chorus range" or rather anywhere in the clockwise of 12 o'clock means that the pitch bending that takes effect will have a direct correlation on the Freq knob and subsequent tuning. To demonstrate..

Make an adjustment of the Warp (hold Option and turn the Variation) into the positive, then change the Freq and you'll notice how the frequency goes a different direction. Now you might think that the initial frequency could still slide up and down normally... and it likely is, be that it is internally, but then the Warp is shifting it real time so a high frequency pushes downward and a low one upward.

This caught me off guard and part of me expects that I would hear frequency decrease when I turn the Freq knob down despite any setting on the Warp. What I understood about Warp was that the odd channels shifted lower and the even channels higher when going clockwise. Though this seems to describe the hex mode operation of it. Using with channels selected gives a pitch bend that is more than a simple transposing yet is addressing the selected channels in varying amounts.

So the Warp algorithm is a bit strange, I expect that it isn't a bug but I also expected something different so maybe there is room for a tweak to it that gives you a shift from frequency but a way to tweak the primary one in an expected manner. This certainly goes back to how they wanted a non static pitch shifter and Warp is pretty crazy fun..

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by OHEXOH » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:04 pm

dBVelocity wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:02 am
I think a more correct print for Multi would be orange to refer that it's mainly for hex mode... And the presets again ought to have been black.
I definitely agree that preset should be in black as they are a direct action. Not sure about Multi in Orange as Multi isn't exclusive to Hex mode - but I understand your logic. For me however, the colors seem to reflect the way to access functions - which is a pattern seen on other Rossum modules. If Multi is accessed via the option button then I think it should be blue to keep consistent. But yeah, the panel is the panel.

Of course, all of this is my own subjective opinion ;) and at the end of the day, it is still a hugely powerful module :sb:
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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by Sam Botstein » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:44 pm

Sections are marked in orange on various Rossum Electro-Music modules like Panharmonium and Mob of Emus.

"Multi" and the associated text for the CV inputs in that mode are in black to differentiate them from the blue numbers that correspond to the other global CV input modes which are also marked in blue.

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by OHEXOH » Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:17 pm

I want to add that accidentally pressing a Preset button in the way I described above should not lose the settings, simply press the Preset button again and the Mob reverts back to as it was. Thanks @Sam Botstein for that information.
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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by Sam Botstein » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:45 pm

Rossum Electro-Music is excited to announce the Mob of Emus 1.2 Software Update with feature enhancements including the new single CV Input Reassignment feature, new CV modulation destinations, and a new Pause feature that expand programming and performance possibilities.

The Mob of Emus 1.2 software update is available to download now at Rossum-Electro.com!

http://www.rossum-electro.com/products/mob-of-emus/

The updated Mob of Emus Manual and Mob of Emus 1.2 Software New Features Guide (also included in the updated manual) linked below are also available to download now at the product page.

http://www.rossum-electro.com/fqlzron/w ... 021521.pdf

http://www.rossum-electro.com/fqlzron/w ... atures.pdf

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by dBVelocity » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:20 pm

Awesome news! Thank you!

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by fruitsnake » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:03 pm

brilliant
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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by lihp » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:07 pm

What a fantastic update! Thank you!
It makes the module so much more valuable.

Just one remark: apparently the function (Manual chap.15) CHANNEL SELECTOR BUTTONS / CLICK AND HOLD: Select the channel, and deselect any other channels, doesn't work for me as before. It does deselect the other channels, but the selected channel is also deselected (unlit).
Maybe I missed out on something...

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by jonbenderr » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:50 am

I was on the fence about maybe trading/selling this. Felt like it was meant for bigger rigs with more control options than I have. Told myself to just wait for the firmware update.

Did not expect it this soon. Holy cow this thing just opened up. Had one input/out as a triggered envelope. Another input controlling the freq of that env. Another quantizing incoming CV and another again to control the gain of the quantization.

It was magical! :)

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Re: Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus

Post by Freequenz » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:26 am

Anyone, how do I modulate series?
Doesn't it boarder anyone to not have modulation control over HARM#/SERIES... ? Would be great for setting up some progression! Just why don't have control over harmonics series on a harmonic sextet... isn't it obwiest?

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