PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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metamorphmuses
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PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by metamorphmuses » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:22 am

Can we have a dedicated thread for those of us who don't own Intellijel-specification 1U cases?

I'm referring to them as Doepfer / PulpLogic because PulpLogic states that "1U Tiles were born out of a combination of the Rack Unit specification and the Doepfer Eurorack specification." I suppose this means Doepfer's Eurorack specification has some parameters regarding 1U modules, or alternatively PulpLogic interprets Doepfer's specification for 3U modules to have definitive implications for 1U modules.

The 1U module market has been slowly growing over the last few years, but I wonder how many manufacturers of assembled modules are looking to expand into it with fully fledged mixer and output modules in particular, and of those manufacturers how many intend on making them available in both Intellijel and Doepfer / PulpLogic format.

I currently have a number of PulpLogic and Syinsi tiles, but I am interested to replace my PulpLogic Sum tiles with a ST Modular Mia 1U module, however the Mia is DIY-only, I still haven't made any modules myself and I don't think that's the one to start with.
Last edited by metamorphmuses on Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Doepfer / PulpLogic 1U Modules

Post by señor-bling » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:55 am

This has been discussed before, but first of all I think your interpretation of PL's statement is slightly off. There's nothing Doepfer specific about their tile "standard". Neither do Doepfer mention 1U anywhere. If anything, I'd say the Intellijel format sticks more closely to Eurorack + Doepfer "standards". In terms of both power connector and height.

I don't mean to question the usefulness of such a thread, but having Doepfer in the title is misleading at best.
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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by metamorphmuses » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:43 pm

señor-bling wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:55 am
This has been discussed before, but first of all I think your interpretation of PL's statement is slightly off. There's nothing Doepfer specific about their tile "standard". Neither do Doepfer mention 1U anywhere. If anything, I'd say the Intellijel format sticks more closely to Eurorack + Doepfer "standards". In terms of both power connector and height.

I don't mean to question the usefulness of such a thread, but having Doepfer in the title is misleading at best.
For the record, I did my due diligence and searched for thread with "pulplogic 1u" in their titles. Thanks for letting me know about the lack of any one, true standard that could objectively trace back to Doepfer. There's clearly room for interpretation, and both Intellijel and PulpLogic (and others) have interpreted it differently.

I just changed the thread title, too.

Anyway, onward to discussions on the development of modules in the PulpLogic format. And about 1U mixer modules in that format, in particular...

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by sduck » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:07 pm

I have two rows, 168hp each, of 1U pulplogic style rows in my large cabinet. That's probably about twice as many as I actually need, considering that after 2 years one of them is only half full, and the other one still completely empty. But the dozen pulplogic modules i have, plus the 1uO&C are really nice to have.

I have some plans on the backburner to add some format jumbler type tiles, plus possibly a large scale "multiple" - 4 little tiles with 4 jacks each, with the respective jacks all connected, so the A jack on one would be connected to the other A jacks, the B... etc. Maybe that makes sense. To eliminate some of the need for big cross cabinet patch cables.

Mixer - this is the perfect use for these little tiles. I have a nice little 3 channel one that pulplogic made, it gets a lot of use.
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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by flies » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:55 am

Just chiming in to say that I have a synthrotek case with a pulplogic 1u row and it's filled with intellijel 1u modules and they fit without major problems. (You'll either attach them on the bottom or the top but not both.)

Image

(PS is there a way to get bbcode to reduce the size of this image? I tried width=200 and style="max-width:30%;" and neither worked.)
my rig https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/622777 (not shown: VCV rack, MOTO 828 mk2, outboard effects)

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by anduu » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:42 pm

Thank you for posting this! I just got a synthrotek case and I've been struggling to find the right setup in the 1u row. Not sure why I thought the intelligent tiles would be entirely unusable and out of the question but this image makes a lot of sense! There are no differences in how they are powered or their depth right?

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by Arneb » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:58 pm

anduu wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:42 pm
Thank you for posting this! I just got a synthrotek case and I've been struggling to find the right setup in the 1u row. Not sure why I thought the intelligent tiles would be entirely unusable and out of the question but this image makes a lot of sense! There are no differences in how they are powered or their depth right?
There are differences in how they're powered. It's just that PulpLogic are the weird ones. Intellijel 1U uses the same connectors as 3U Euro modules. PulpLogic 1U in its pure form uses Futaba connectors, which are common in RC model building and amateur robotics but unheard of in electronic music AFAIK. That being said, I think PulpLogic sells Futaba-Euro power adapters.

Well, and then there's Synthrotek complicating things by selling PulpLogic-Intellijel hybrid 1U modules: Pulp-style panel size, Intellijel-style connectors.

As for depth, that's not standardized at all.

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by flies » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:29 pm

anduu wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:42 pm
There are no differences in how they are powered or their depth right?
Pulplogic tiles won't connect to a normal power bus board without an adapter of some kind. (They use the normal voltages, so it's just a matter of making the right connections. )
http://pulplogic.com/1u_tiles/

Intellijel tiles have standard eurorack power connections.

Depth varies from module to module, but i would expect them to be pretty shallow in general given their simplicity.
my rig https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/622777 (not shown: VCV rack, MOTO 828 mk2, outboard effects)

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by hinterlands303 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:42 pm

I love my PulpLogic tiles! They take care of a lot of my utility needs. A few standouts that go beyond standard utilities - RND (a looping random tile), X-Fade (crossfader for audio or CV), Doing (an envelope follower and pre-amp with a spring attached!). I've got two 84hp rows of PulpLogic tiles and adding them was one of the best decisions I made with my system.

In terms of other tiles in the format - I've had a mixed experience with the Sysinsi tiles. There has been some kind of design flaw with each one I've had (I've had the filter, vco, and S&H). They've all been usable, just not as well designed as the PulpLogic modules.

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by metamorphmuses » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:10 pm

Arneb wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:58 pm
There are differences in how they're powered. It's just that PulpLogic are the weird ones. Intellijel 1U uses the same connectors as 3U Euro modules. PulpLogic 1U in its pure form uses Futaba connectors, which are common in RC model building and amateur robotics but unheard of in electronic music AFAIK. That being said, I think PulpLogic sells Futaba-Euro power adapters.
Yes, I myself have seven PulpLogic tiles powered by one Futaba-Euro power adapter and currently two on another, and that's the advantage I see to that setup. In my EliteModular 7U case, there are only twenty power headers. I am just barely willing to dedicate two of the power headers to the up to eight PulpLogic tiles each of the adapters can power, and leave nine power headers per 3U row; otherwise powering up to 16 1U modules would leave almost no power headers for the 3U modules. On the other hand, if I use all ten power headers for the top 3U row and ten for the bottom 3U row, there is nothing left for the 1U row and I'd have to get a separate power module with a flying bus strip just for the 1U modules.

Since I have no Intellijel 1U modules, I have to ask: is it really one module to a power header? If so, the Intellijel 104 HP cases must have quite a few power headers in them to accommodate the 1U and 3U rows.

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by autopoiesis » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:15 pm

hinterlands303 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:42 pm
I love my PulpLogic tiles! They take care of a lot of my utility needs. A few standouts that go beyond standard utilities - RND (a looping random tile), X-Fade (crossfader for audio or CV), Doing (an envelope follower and pre-amp with a spring attached!). I've got two 84hp rows of PulpLogic tiles and adding them was one of the best decisions I made with my system.
+1
hinterlands303 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:42 pm
In terms of other tiles in the format - I've had a mixed experience with the Sysinsi tiles. There has been some kind of design flaw with each one I've had (I've had the filter, vco, and S&H). They've all been usable, just not as well designed as the PulpLogic modules.
+1

Similar experiences here with both manufacturers

I've been in pretty deep with the PulpLogic spec since I started out. 210HP of PL 1U tiles — 18 from PulpLogic, 6 from Syinsi, 1 from Plum Audio. No regrets, they have maximized my two cases' functionality, and I would have far fewer (and less space-economical) options if I were in the Intellijel spec.

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by blaythe.steuer » Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:57 am

i absolutely love my 1U. i’ve got a bunch of the pulp logic D mults to make my own sort of make noise CV bus. easily distributing of signals horizontally is huge for cable management.

also my nonlinear circuits 1U modules are a blast. having sloths in 6HP 1U is insane value and PiLLs, diff/rect, and signum also get a ton of use. highly recommend!!

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by Arneb » Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:55 am

metamorphmuses wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:10 pm
Since I have no Intellijel 1U modules, I have to ask: is it really one module to a power header? If so, the Intellijel 104 HP cases must have quite a few power headers in them to accommodate the 1U and 3U rows.
What you'll find when looking through the Intellijel 1U line-up is that most of it is either passive or pretty wide. If IJ was PL, Noise Tools would be sold as three separate modules. But then the physical size of Euro connectors becomes an issue - there's only so many power headers you can put on a busboard before you run out of physical space for connectors and ribbon cables. So, PL went for Futaba connectors for their 6HP "tiles" as they're physically smaller. Notably, Synthrotek's Euro-connector-powered PL-sized 1U line-up is also on the wider side.

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by metamorphmuses » Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:42 am

As far as I can tell from ModularGrid, the companies producing 1U modules in PulpLogic format, besides the eponymous company, are: Syinsi, Erthenvar, Synthrotek, Nonlinearcircuits, ST Modular, Ritual Electronics, Xodes, Plum Audio, Shakmat, Tsyklon Labs.

The one manufacturer I'm really curious about is Vermona. They supposedly still have a Dual buffered Attenuator / Mixer available but the Vermona website does not mention it and it's not widely available for sale. Consequently, I have no information as to what dimensions it conforms to. If Vermona is in the 1U market, or would consider a return to it, I would be quite frankly atwitter with excitement. My first hand experience with Vermona is currently limited to the standalone synthesizer PerFourmer mkII, but what a well-made instrument that is, so I can justifiably assume that their Eurorack modules are also of great quality (and what reviews I've read of them are positive).

Another manufacturer getting into the market would, of course, be Doepfer. There is one module of theirs listed as in prototype or planning phase since 2018 and there is also no information about its dimensions, so if the company were to ever take the format more seriously, one might hope they'd release modules in both PulpLogic and Intellijel formats.

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by XODES » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:23 am

metamorphmuses wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:42 am
Another manufacturer getting into the market would, of course, be Doepfer. There is one module of theirs listed as in prototype or planning phase since 2018 and there is also no information about its dimensions, so if the company were to ever take the format more seriously, one might hope they'd release modules in both PulpLogic and Intellijel formats.
I was intrigued when I read that part.

What you actually saw on Modulargrid simply is a A-182-1 rotated by 90° so that it fits in a 1U space...

The user that added it surely uses one of those 3U to 1U adapters, and the text is a copy-paste of the original 3U version.

I may be wrong, and I guess we'd have seen Doepfer cases with 1U rows already if they had a plan to make 1U modules.
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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by Schrank » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:39 am

XODES wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:23 am

Doepfer cases with 1U rows
Yes, please! :love:

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by metamorphmuses » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:41 am

XODES wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:23 am
metamorphmuses wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:42 am
Another manufacturer getting into the market would, of course, be Doepfer. There is one module of theirs listed as in prototype or planning phase since 2018 and there is also no information about its dimensions, so if the company were to ever take the format more seriously, one might hope they'd release modules in both PulpLogic and Intellijel formats.
I was intrigued when I read that part.

What you actually saw on Modulargrid simply is a A-182-1 rotated by 90° so that it fits in a 1U space...

The user that added it surely uses one of those 3U to 1U adapters, and the text is a copy-paste of the original 3U version.

I may be wrong, and I guess we'd have seen Doepfer cases with 1U rows already if they had a plan to make 1U modules.
That makes perfect sense, now that you mention it, particularly as (1) the text is not rotated 90 degrees to read horizontally as it would be if the module itself was designed fit in a 1U format; and (2) there are no holes shown for fitting in that orientation. So, I am inclined to agree that it's just the vertical module that a user has mounted in an adapter. Why the user submitted it as if it were a purpose-built 1U is a bit ad-hoc and misleading, but :shrug:

Also, hi, I am interested in what Xodes might be doing with 1U in the future, particularly if a mixer will eventually enter the lineup. I find it intriguing that a 1U module can fit both Intellijel and PulpLogic formats simply with a hybrid faceplate.

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by XODES » Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:08 am

metamorphmuses wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:41 am
Also, hi, I am interested in what Xodes might be doing with 1U in the future, particularly if a mixer will eventually enter the lineup. I find it intriguing that a 1U module can fit both Intellijel and PulpLogic formats simply with a hybrid faceplate.
No mixer was planned as I first thought there would be a couple options for these, and even though there are some already, it looks like people are looking for something else, so I'm wondering what would you be expecting in terms of functionality, size, etc?

I do like the Doepfer A-138u, and I'd say a similar product could be adapted, and would probably be 12HP.

The hybrid format solution comes from laziness, as I didn't feel like managing 2 formats for the very same products. So the mechanical constraints are based on the IJ format, and the slot holes allow the front panels to be mounted in PL cases while screwing these both on top and bottom, unlike when using stock IJ modules with PL cases.
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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by blaythe.steuer » Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:17 pm

a 1U mixer with pan CV would rock

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by metamorphmuses » Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:12 am

XODES wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:08 am
metamorphmuses wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:41 am
Also, hi, I am interested in what Xodes might be doing with 1U in the future, particularly if a mixer will eventually enter the lineup. I find it intriguing that a 1U module can fit both Intellijel and PulpLogic formats simply with a hybrid faceplate.
No mixer was planned as I first thought there would be a couple options for these, and even though there are some already, it looks like people are looking for something else, so I'm wondering what would you be expecting in terms of functionality, size, etc?
In terms of functionality, I would be looking for at least four mono input channels and a stereo output in 1/4" or 6.35mm jacks plus a stereo headphone out.

My preference would be a 1U combined mixer and output module similar to the Bastl Instruments Ciao! and 4MS Listen Four 1/4 (or "Quarters") modules, but with three improvements: (1) Pan knobs on all four inputs, (2) left and right inputs with left normalled to right for mono signals, (3) attenuverters on the inputs rather than plain attenuator inputs.
blaythe.steuer wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:17 pm
a 1U mixer with pan CV would rock
I agree with the proposal of pan CV as well.

And finally, in terms of size, such a module would necessarily be fairly wide, probably at least as large as ST Modular Mia at 28HP. Perhaps as large as 32HP?

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by shellfritsch » Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:23 am

Much love for PL 1u.
I picked up a minimal panning mixer a while back and it’s been super handy.
94F9CF01-878E-4EF9-B199-E5F846FE665E.jpeg
More info here:
https://llllllll.co/t/nearness-a-1u-adaption/29033

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by Whelm » Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:11 am

On the topic of 1U generally, what I find exciting is Nonlinear Circuits stuff in 1U. Triple Sloths and Difference Rectifiers and all kinds of cool stuff.

Also just for anyone reading this thread and wondering about the "standards", when it comes to power it's not as simple as "intellijel does this and PulpLogic does that", because the main differentiating factor tends to be the size of the panel. IE you can find plenty of not-intellijel 1U modules, listed as "PulpLogic style", that use the standard power connectors. For instance my 1U row is all PulpLogic sized but use standard headers. Varies by maker it seems. It's also pretty easy to convert the "PulpLogic power" to ribbon cable
metamorphmuses wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:12 am


In terms of functionality, I would be looking for at least four mono input channels and a stereo output in 1/4" or 6.35mm jacks plus a stereo headphone out.

My preference would be a 1U combined mixer and output module similar to the Bastl Instruments Ciao! and 4MS Listen Four 1/4 (or "Quarters") modules, but with three improvements: (1) Pan knobs on all four inputs, (2) left and right inputs with left normalled to right for mono signals, (3) attenuverters on the inputs rather than plain attenuator inputs.
That's a lot of knobs and jacks in 1U. You want attenuverters and pan knobs and 2 inputs per channel, AND multiple outputs? Why not get a 3U mixer?

Synthrotek has close to what you're looking for, in 1U anyways. 4 input stereo mixer with 1/4 and 1/8 stereo outs. Pan only over 2 channels though, no CV. I wish it had individual L and R outs... I wouldn't be surprised if there are other similar ones or more complex ones out there. You can always patch your own pan with 2 VCAs and an inverted CV.

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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by metamorphmuses » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:05 am

Whelm wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:11 am
{...}
metamorphmuses wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:12 am
In terms of functionality, I would be looking for at least four mono input channels and a stereo output in 1/4" or 6.35mm jacks plus a stereo headphone out.

My preference would be a 1U combined mixer and output module similar to the Bastl Instruments Ciao! and 4MS Listen Four 1/4 (or "Quarters") modules, but with three improvements: (1) Pan knobs on all four inputs, (2) left and right inputs with left normalled to right for mono signals, (3) attenuverters on the inputs rather than plain attenuator inputs.
That's a lot of knobs and jacks in 1U. You want attenuverters and pan knobs and 2 inputs per channel, AND multiple outputs? Why not get a 3U mixer?
Because I want to leverage the 1U space I have. But this is a "if I had my druthers" list. I am also basing the proposal on the ST Modular Mia 1U, which exists (DIY only, however), crossed with the 4MS Listen Four Quarters 3U and the Bastl Ciao 3U; I am only altering a few things that I have in the PulpLogic tiles I own (image attached below).
Whelm wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:11 am
Synthrotek has close to what you're looking for, in 1U anyways. 4 input stereo mixer with 1/4 and 1/8 stereo outs. Pan only over 2 channels though, no CV. I wish it had individual L and R outs... I wouldn't be surprised if there are other similar ones or more complex ones out there. You can always patch your own pan with 2 VCAs and an inverted CV.
Yes, if all else fails, I could get that Synthrotek 1U Stereo Output Mixer, or I could just continue to use what I have. I can live without the pan over CV, to be honest. I can even live without the attenuverters, but I have them in my current PulpLogic 1U setup, it's just a bit *too* modular for my taste — I have to patch the Att-Verts to the Sum modules, which then have to be patched into the Out module; I would prefer one module with internal busses for that.

Below is my 84 HP 1U row in my old case; I recently upgraded to a 104 HP Elite Modular case and have moved the tiles, now with a 20 HP gap. The black Att-Vert and Sum tiles are for the left channel, and the silver ones are for the right channel.
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Re: PulpLogic-format 1U Modules

Post by XODES » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:36 am

metamorphmuses wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:12 am
In terms of functionality, I would be looking for at least four mono input channels and a stereo output in 1/4" or 6.35mm jacks plus a stereo headphone out.

My preference would be a 1U combined mixer and output module similar to the Bastl Instruments Ciao! and 4MS Listen Four 1/4 (or "Quarters") modules, but with three improvements: (1) Pan knobs on all four inputs, (2) left and right inputs with left normalled to right for mono signals, (3) attenuverters on the inputs rather than plain attenuator inputs.
blaythe.steuer wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:17 pm
a 1U mixer with pan CV would rock
I agree with the proposal of pan CV as well.

And finally, in terms of size, such a module would necessarily be fairly wide, probably at least as large as ST Modular Mia at 28HP. Perhaps as large as 32HP?
I personally don't quite feel like 1U modules above 24/26HP make much sense :

- First, the 24/26HP limit I'm referring to hasn't been chosen in an arbitrary way. These are the HP right above and below the equivalent in height of a 3U module, which basically mean any 3U module up to 5HP, if designed with it in mind, can be converted to a 1U module with only a front panel change. This is what happened with my logic module.

- For a module like the one you described, at least with my hybrid format in mind, it would better have headers for internal connections to the possible 6.35mm outputs, simply not to make these redundant with the ones available for people using IJ cases.

- Adding CV for panning wouldn't be an issue, yet just like you'd want attenuverters on the inputs, I guess at some point one might want attenuverters on CV pan inputs in addition to the original control, which means : more knobs/HP.

- If you want to make things easily usable/tweakable you have to consider using minimum ~3HP per I/O or knob/switch. So depending on how the jacks and pots would be arranged, without taking the 6.35mm ones into account, a crammed version with jacks and pots aligned vertically would be minimum 24HP and a comfortable one could be up to the double depending on knobs size.
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