Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

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jube
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Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by jube » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:40 pm

I think I can say that I’m a happy owner of a Hermod. I do notice though that I use it mostly for phrases, finding the sequence page a bit cumbersome to use. I also moved transposition outside of the sequencer via precision adders.

I’m therefore looking for a sequencer that would be better suited for longer running tracks for long notes to transpose the Hermod tracks with or modulate Hermod FX parameters running separate from the Hermod tracks.

Any recommendations?

Or perhaps more broadly, anyone else using sequencer combinations in a way that is comparable, related or inspirational?

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by glennfin » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:03 pm

jube wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:40 pm
I think I can say that I’m a happy owner of a Hermod. I do notice though that I use it mostly for phrases, finding the sequence page a bit cumbersome to use. I also moved transposition outside of the sequencer via precision adders.

I’m therefore looking for a sequencer that would be better suited for longer running tracks for long notes to transpose the Hermod tracks with or modulate Hermod FX parameters running separate from the Hermod tracks.

Any recommendations?

Or perhaps more broadly, anyone else using sequencer combinations in a way that is comparable, related or inspirational?
I own a Hermod and just ordered a Vector. We'll see what happens. I find the Hermod's tiny screen difficult for my old eyes.
At very least, the Hermod makes a good MIDI to CV interface.

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by Raymond » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:46 pm

As a happy owner of a hermod myself I will follow this thread with interest. My intuition is that it all depends on what needs to be achieved and for what purpose, but regarding the hermod I believe an external sequencer via the midi in is a very good option too.

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by jube » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:12 am

@glennfin I've read multiple post in the Hermod thread about comparing the Vector with the Hermod. I'm not sure it's what I'm looking for though. I'm currently thinking of patching something like this:

1. Hermod (sequencer for phrases)
2. Any slow Euclidean rhythm generator
3. Mutable Instruments Stages (sequencer for transposition)
4. 2x LPZW WK1 (ARoom) precision adder

Clock Stages with Euclidean rhythm, run multiple Hermod outputs into LPZW precision adder, transposing all patched Hermod channels with the Stages output.

What I'm looking for is something that would combine 2 and 3.

@Raymond, I've thought of adding an external midi sequencer (maybe Pyramid?) but I like to have everything in the box ;-)

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by Raymond » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:09 am

Pyramid would definitely works well but there might be some overlap in terms of features and possibilities. Maybe something entirely different would be better. I am really thinking more and more about adding an octatrack as it can very well serves as a mixer as well for the modules, adding some effects and all kind of stuff as well.
I have no experience at all with the other things you talk about, although a precision adder is always nice and the A-185-2 is the way to go for me. Also it is not a sequencer but I am really interested in the ladik S-090 Dual probability skipper for adding variations on the fly easily for few bucks. I have heard good stuff about it and it is only 4hp so thats cool.

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by desolationjones » Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:20 am

It really is a shame that Squarp won't add any MIDI control of Hermod. I guess it would risk reducing sales of the Pyramid? But effectively Hermod demands to be the primary sequencer.

It has a ton of channels, so a sequential switch is going to be a good bet for turning your phrases into longer sequences. Mutable Stages is the most flexible switch out there, IMHO, so maybe it can play that role for you instead of just step sequencer.

Teletype is always a good choice if you want to mash a bunch of sequencing logic up!

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by Peng33 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:10 am

I have a Pyramid that I honestly have barely used. I know it is extremely powerful and laden with features, but also pretty dense with a steep-ish learning curve. I bought it about six months into my Eurorack excursion (which means, about six months ago...began with Eurorack about a year ago), but Eurorack is much more immediate and fun.

Do not want to get rid of it, though. One day, I will sit down with it and learn its features more deeply, and use it for one of the initial purposes for buying it...recording CV and to have that or live CV control my MIDI keyboards/sound modules.

So also watching this thread with interest, as the Hermod and the Pyramid are almost the same, so anything gleaned here should be decently interchangeable.

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by mdoudoroff » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:13 am

Two observations that may or may not help:

1) with complex digital (“battleship”) sequencers, it’s almost always more important how it works (workflow) than what it can theoretically do; sequencers like Hermod or Vector are workflows unto themselves, not utilities

2) re-reading the OP a couple times, my reaction is that I might rather employ various utility sequencers and other utility modules (such as the sequential switch desolationjones mentions) than introduce yet another ‘workflow sequencer’ into the mix; my favorite utility sequencer these days is the dnipro metamorph

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by jube » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:32 am

@mdoudoroff Two observations that surely hit the nail on the head.

Exactly why I'm looking for another sequencer that has a workflow that would be better for small changes over a longer period, running separate from any patterns in the Hermod. The DNIPro Metamorph is a nice suggestion, though it'd be great if it would have its own clock and quantizer.

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by Raymond » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:25 am

I certainly didn’t know about the DNIpro, I’ll look into that it seems interesting.

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by Raymond » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:31 am

It makes me think, maybe it is stupid, but could the doepfer A-138M would serve the purpose by mixing/attenuating CV/audio ?

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by mdoudoroff » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:45 am

jube wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:32 am
Exactly why I'm looking for another sequencer that has a workflow that would be better for small changes over a longer period, running separate from any patterns in the Hermod. The DNIPro Metamorph is a nice suggestion, though it'd be great if it would have its own clock and quantizer.
Arguably better without its own clock, so that you can clock it from the Hermod or from other sources (for more experimental effects) and dodge some of the annoyances of reconciling multiple clocks.

The quantizer is a fair point. If you patch to one of the CV inputs on Hermod, can Hermod quantize it for you (or transpose it with quantization)?

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by Raymond » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:01 pm

mdoudoroff wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:45 am

The quantizer is a fair point. If you patch to one of the CV inputs on Hermod, can Hermod quantize it for you (or transpose it with quantization)?

I am not sure of that, someone else would need to confirm, but I guess so as you can quantize a track within hermod as an effect.

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by jube » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:09 pm

mdoudoroff wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:45 am
[…]
The quantizer is a fair point. If you patch to one of the CV inputs on Hermod, can Hermod quantize it for you (or transpose it with quantization)?
Technically yes, but here’s where I start to have my issues with Hermod. All settings are saved on the project level. I create my sketches as projects, meaning that I should update all my projects to have a separate track to quantize the Dnipro. That (and the specific way the midi note 0V transpose in the mod matrix works) made me buy the LPZW precision adders.

This is also why I’m considering sourcing the clock externally. If I want to jam with others with a shared midi clock I have to reset that setting every time I load a project.

I’m currently actually eyeing the Doboz TSNM mk2.

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by jpizzo » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:31 pm

Yes hermod can quantize its cv inputs (and add any of the fx in the fx matrix to it), but you have to do it as cv/gate pairs (so you can't only input the cv into input A, for example, and get a quantized output without also supplying a gate on input B to create note events). I do it often though and its pretty sweet.

@jube, you could also set up a template project by naming it "_" so that it opens up to an empty project with the same settings on each power up. then "save as" the project when you make something cool.

As for your original post, I pair my hermod with a Sinfonion and it is really fun. The hermod I use to create the phrases (often just by using the quick combo STEP+Y to randomize a track and STEP+X to delete all on that track) and then have Sinfonion re-quantize those phrases into longer progressions based on the chord sequencer it has. Its also pretty good for live jamming, because its easy to change your chord progressions, or also just push the different quantize buttons over time to evolve the melody. ALSO super fun to use the sinfonion arpeggiator output to Hermod's cv input (plus a gate from somewhere in your system, or just the main clock). If you assign the arpeggiator to the "Active Track" you can send the arp to whatever track you currently have selected which means it can also be recorded into hermod and re-quantized again by sinfonion. Anyway, its a bit expensive but its a really solid pairing.

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by jube » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:39 pm

jpizzo wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:31 pm
@jube, you could also set up a template project by naming it "_" so that it opens up to an empty project with the same settings on each power up. then "save as" the project when you make something cool.
I did that for one day but removed the "_" file because I preferred it loading the last used project. I now have multiple templates that I "Save as" often.

What you're describing is indeed what I'm after, but yeah I think a Sinfonion is overkill for me ;-)

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by jpizzo » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:15 pm

Maybe a varigate is what you are looking for. I use a varigate 4+ with my hermod sometimes, mostly as another source for hermods cv ins. But i think they pair pretty well. A varigate 8+ would give you more gate channels. But i like that you can configure the 4+ to be 2 cv and 2 gates for the 4 channels, or 4 cv or 4 gates. It is similar to using mutable stages as a sequencer for transposition, but also can use it for some generative(or not) gates.

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by Mr. Wiggles » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:38 pm

Brains + 2x Pressure Points + A-151 (sequential switch) makes a pretty nice utility sequencer. Throw in a quantizer (could be Hermod itself, though I'm a fan of Scales as a utility quantizer) and Quantus Pax (WK1 Aroom is also a good option), and you can use it for transpositions across multiple voices. Brains + Pressure Points even gives you clock-synced touch control.

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by jube » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:53 pm

Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:38 pm
Brains + 2x Pressure Points + A-151 (sequential switch) makes a pretty nice utility sequencer. Throw in a quantizer (could be Hermod itself, though I'm a fan of Scales as a utility quantizer) and Quantus Pax (WK1 Aroom is also a good option), and you can use it for transpositions across multiple voices. Brains + Pressure Points even gives you clock-synced touch control.
Good suggestion! The pressure points led me to the Doboz TSNM actually

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by Raymond » Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:11 am

Raymond wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:31 am
It makes me think, maybe it is stupid, but could the doepfer A-138M would serve the purpose by mixing/attenuating CV/audio ?
Does anyone knows about that ? Cause as time is passing I am more and more interested in matrix mixer for various purposes and specially this one as it has knobs, it is simple and effective. If it could serve this purpose as well that would be a no brainer for me!

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by nsolarz » Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:23 am

Peng33 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:10 am
I have a Pyramid that I honestly have barely used. I know it is extremely powerful and laden with features, but also pretty dense with a steep-ish learning curve. I bought it about six months into my Eurorack excursion (which means, about six months ago...began with Eurorack about a year ago), but Eurorack is much more immediate and fun.

Do not want to get rid of it, though. One day, I will sit down with it and learn its features more deeply, and use it for one of the initial purposes for buying it...recording CV and to have that or live CV control my MIDI keyboards/sound modules.

So also watching this thread with interest, as the Hermod and the Pyramid are almost the same, so anything gleaned here should be decently interchangeable.
Pyramid is deeeep compared to Hermod in my experience (own/owned both. sold Hermod, keeping the Pyramid). Pyramid definitely takes a bit to wrap your head around WRT the differences between patterns, tracks, and sequences. It took me a bit to get the hang of it, but I did find that after a certain point you do get a muscle memory for it and the workflow speeds up significantly. IMO, the UI/UX of Pyramid is way better than Hermod, if only for having a significantly larger screen and more buttons. Pyramid is a "two-handed sequencer" a la the ER-101/102, if that is something that concerns you. Biggest downside to pyramid with Eurorack is you really need a dedicated Midi->CV to be able to integrate it, which drives up the cost and the space real estate significantly.

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by jube » Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:27 am

Raymond wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:11 am
Raymond wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:31 am
It makes me think, maybe it is stupid, but could the doepfer A-138M would serve the purpose by mixing/attenuating CV/audio ?
Does anyone knows about that ? Cause as time is passing I am more and more interested in matrix mixer for various purposes and specially this one as it has knobs, it is simple and effective. If it could serve this purpose as well that would be a no brainer for me!
I'm not sure what "this purpose" is in this context, but if you mean using it for transposing 1V/Oct, i think a matrix mixer is not the way to go. As soon as you start attenuating the interval of 0.08333V per semitone will not be the same and you won't be playing the notes you want to hear.

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Re: Sequencer combinations (what would pair well with a Hermod?)

Post by Peng33 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:12 am

nsolarz wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:23 am
Biggest downside to pyramid with Eurorack is you really need a dedicated Midi->CV to be able to integrate it, which drives up the cost and the space real estate significantly.
Funny, because part of the reason I bought the Pyramid was due to its capability to go the other way...CV to MIDI.

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