Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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Yes Powder
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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by Yes Powder » Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:43 am

Not to be another voice telling you to steer away from the all-2HP route, but I really think you're making a big mistake. I used to have a lot of 4HP modules crammed together, and THAT felt cramped for my hands. 2hp seems to be taking that level of discomfort to absurdity. You say you envision actively patching for two to three hours a day, but I can't imagine myself wanting to spend time with a system that small for more than a few minutes; once you get a lot of cables down, I think you'll find that the desire to reach in with tweezer-hands to patch further will quickly fade.
Also keep in mind that with a system like this you'll need to be careful what cables you buy since the outer jacket (the part you're supposed to grip while plugging) on some of them will be wider than the modules themselves which means if you have two modules next to each other with jacks at the same height that you want to use, you won't be able to use both. Of course this means using stackable cables is right out the window too, since they have rather large jackets. I speak from experience here from when I used to have two modules that were 2hp wide, next to each other.
Aside from the fact that all the modules are 2HP, it doesn't look like a bad starter system, and the Batumi would definitely be a welcome addition to it.
I can understand wanting to keep it small, but looking up the dimensions of the Pelican case you mentioned, a Doepfer P6 or LC6 is about the same size, (and the P9/LC9 would only be 5.25" taller than that) and would give you a lot more room for modules. Speaking of which, Doepfer makes excellent and fairly inexpensive single-function modules that are much friendlier to hands for patching and tweaking.
I'm not poo-poo'ing putting any 2HP modules in your system at all, but I really think you'll get a lot more enjoyment out of your system if you don't go for all 2HP and instead put something together that can be easily patched and tweaked.

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by Tofupancho » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:07 am

11235813 wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:32 pm
THANK YOU FOR THE SUGGESTION!!! I have some reading to do... :-)
Your excitement totally made my day. Very happy to help!

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by 11235813 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:52 pm

bronzebygold wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:35 pm
Erogenous Tones LEVIT8 is 8 attenuverters in 10hp with gain and mixing.
Rossum Electro-Music Mob of Emus is 6 fully-featured oscillators, noise sources, and modulators in 16hp.
Doepfer A-130-8 Octal Linear VCA & Mixer is 8 VCAs and three mixer channels in just 6hp!
ALM Pip Slope mk 2 is a fully-featured function generator in 4hp with trigger and gate inputs, shape and loop,
In most cases I can name a module that packs more into less space than the equivalent 2hp module.

Thank you so much for the specific module recommendations... I can tell I'm going to be spending more time on research... it seems to be 1/2 the fun! :-)

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by 11235813 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:59 pm

Whelm wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:36 pm
If you can fit a 5HP rack in your cramped space, then you can fit a 6HP rack. I think you'd be much better off with two 3U rows of full-sized modules. You can probably fit a 7U rack to get that1U utility row. I find it hard to imagine what your living space must be like if you can fit a 5U rack but not a 7U rack.
THIS comment kept me up all night! You are 99% correct of course. My space is small, but it isn't like that TV show "hoarders" Ha!

**IF** I stay with a Pelican case install, then for only $7 (yes, seven dollars) I can upgrade to a 7U x 90HP case from the 5U x 68HP. Somehow I got stuck into that 5U mindset, and never looked back. This might be the key to everything... I can get a few much larger and more useable modules with similar capability to the 2hp modules, and if there is a 2hp module that I *really* want I can add a spacer or two.

I notice now that even the 2hp brand "systems" (called the "Lunchbox") comes with spacers between the modules!

Here comes my first MW emoji: :yay:

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by 11235813 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:04 pm

Del wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:44 pm
you'll honestly not be able to get your fingers in there to turn the knobs. It'll be that bad.

It's better not to make decisions based on your current rack size. You'll probably soon be upgrading your rack and giving yourself more space, and then you'll want to swap out all these 2hps for bigger, better-feeling modules.

And one final point that bears repeating — sometimes less is more. You can do a lot with a lot fewer modules and in my experience there is even a pleasure in doing a lot with a little. I think this is why you often see those "three module challenge" videos. I'd get an oscillator, a cool filter, a good function generator, and a vca and self-patch it to oblivion.
Great comments... Another user already convinced me to get a larger case, and start with FEWER modules, so adding your voice really helps. I'm watching the three module challenge videos now - lots to ponder! This sentence "you'll honestly not be able to get your fingers in there to turn the knobs. It'll be that bad" was direct and exactly what I'm looking for, and why this forum is so helpful! Everyone has been great, even though I might be a little insane. :-) Thank you.

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by 11235813 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:08 pm

stepvhen wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:54 pm
Not trying to yuck your yum, but I'd suggest reconsidering that position. Maths (and any similar module) isn't that complicated, its a dual slew generator at bottom. Theres just a lot of situations where the musician thinks "Man I wish I could do X" and it turns out Maths can do that. This could happen with any module of sufficient expressive power (I just learned Marbles could do audio rate sounds with v/o on the input, and I've had it for almost a year!).

I'd also suggest against all 2hp modules. They use smaller pots with these tiny plastic shafts and it just makes me nervous.
Thanks for the thoughts! I certainly wasn't trying to be dismissive or disrespectful of Maths, it is the single most popular modular according to ModularGrid... What I meant was that the 2hp modules are instantly understandable, because of their limited feature set and purposeful UI. I'm sure there isn't a 2hp module that would take a year to find all the features, but I may (probably) be wrong.

As a mechanical engineer though, I do worry about plastic shafts, especially if I intend to travel with my case... Thanks again, every little thing to ponder helps!

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by 11235813 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:13 pm

gogmagog wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:37 pm
* Hold off before buying it all at once: Well, I actually kind of agree with this one.

Lastly, I'll echo what someone else said about the benefits of first-time buying from a single vendor. I bought most of my 1st synth from Pittsburgh Modular and it was great, I didn't wind up selling any of it. A single vendor often has a consistency in vision and approach that makes their modules work well together.

I think it looks like a blast of a rack, above all have fun!
Thanks for the kind words! I really like the "single vendor" approach, some of the racks I see make me dizzy, but then an all Doepfer might be a little too staid. But what do I know? I think the plan is to get a little bigger case that lets me go to 7U, and NOT to purchase everything all at once. You and several others all have great minds that think alike! :-)

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by pugix » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:28 pm

Don't have much to add, but if you want a single vendor approach I suggest you play around on modulargrid with an all-Ladik system. Loads of functionality, mostly small modules, good knob size, and they are very reasonably priced. Main drawback is that Ladik modules are deeper than most.
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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by matttech » Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:21 pm

EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:51 pm
It will take about 5 minutes of trying to use the system before you are asking if you can return it. Better mention to the shop owner that you might return everything. See what they say.

:yay:

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by Kosmikos » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:34 pm

It might also be hard to source some of these modules. I’ve been looking for one of these Intellijel 1U LPG for ever, still can’t find one.
I disagree with the comments about the oscilloscope. This was one of the first module I bought, and it’s been really useful to help me understand what the gates lengths, envelopes, and different voltages my modules were using.
I’m actually using it less now as I learnt how my modules interact together.

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by Karl_Joseph » Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:09 pm

I’d start with a couple of VCOs, a mixer, a filter, a couple VCAs, an ADSR or 2, an LFO, a powerful sequencer, and maybe a delay or reverb... beads, ER301, Pam, an oscilloscope, another mixer that takes up a minimum 28hp, more sequencers, a complex dual VCO, A wave table VCO, wave folders, stereo filters, crossfader, all those logic modules I don’t understand, a switch, S&H... a module that incorporates a matrix, midi i/o, attenuation, inverters, slew, and a usb module for a light. The Doepfer theramin module looks sick too. Definitely start with a bigger case.
- KARL

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by jjr » Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:37 am

Get a Pam’s bro
Smurfs

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by smithie » Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:49 am

x1000 don't do this. I have a 2hp mix between a BD808 and a 8hp filter, and I can still barely adjust the knobs when the other two modules and in full use. I love the 2hp Mix and I have a couple other 2hp as well that require less fiddling. Still, this will also be the 4th time I've moved that Mix to try to find a good usable space for it with my finger size.

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by Granny » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:38 pm

11235813 wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:11 pm
Too Long, Didn't Read:

Newbie. Please give feedback for generative ambient on the case shown below.
p.s. I already know the pros and cons of 2hp.
is this you?

https://preview.redd.it/fxuzzip93zr61.j ... b553e63b28

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by transferpoint » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:50 pm

I'll join the chorus of voices here advising against doing this. I think this will get old very quickly trying to reach a knob that is utterly buried or squeezed between other cable jacks. I'm not exaggerating when I say, you simply cannot get to a knob sometimes and it takes you out of your creative flow. I have the TallDog mutable instruments uClouds and its a great module but if I use every input I cannot squeeze my fingers in to adjust the tiny knobs.

I'm selling all of my smaller modules for larger ones. I have a bunch of Serge modules on back order and have gone for the full sized actual Mutable Instruments modules to replace my mini-clones.

There's a good chance you'll ignore these warnings, I tend to be stubborn myself. But just know that iIf you move forward with this rack, in all likelihood, you'll wind up frustrated by the space restrictions.
Looking to buy Cwejman modules - DM me

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by ATW » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:58 pm

Here's my 2¢, based on my own experience. YMMV
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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by 11235813 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:29 pm

Granny wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:38 pm
is this you?
Hi Granny!

Nope, but I'd love to read more about that system. Is there are Reddit link?

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by 11235813 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:31 pm

ATW wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:58 pm
Here's my 2¢, based on my own experience. YMMV
Hi Atw!
I love that chart... and I'm prepared! I learned a long time ago to go into things with extremely low expectations, and they'll usually be met. Already this has been SO much fun and I don't have a running rack yet... Thanks!

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by 11235813 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:35 pm

transferpoint wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:50 pm
I'll join the chorus of voices here advising against doing this. I think this will get old very quickly trying to reach a knob that is utterly buried or squeezed between other cable jacks. I'm not exaggerating when I say, you simply cannot get to a knob sometimes and it takes you out of your creative flow.

I'm selling all of my smaller modules for larger ones... full sized actual Mutable Instruments modules to replace my mini-clones.

There's a good chance you'll ignore these warnings, I tend to be stubborn myself. But just know that iIf you move forward with this rack, in all likelihood, you'll wind up frustrated by the space restrictions.
THANK YOU for the feedback. These are all super fair points, and I respect your experiences...

Yes, I'm stubborn, and I absolutely LOVE your picture of Clint Eastwood. Ha!

I've made quite a few changes since my original post, and hopefully I'll have an update for everyone later this week. Check back! Thanks again.

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by Granny » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:03 pm

11235813 wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:29 pm
Granny wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:38 pm
is this you?
Hi Granny!

Nope, but I'd love to read more about that system. Is there are Reddit link?

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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by Granny » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:08 pm

you should ask the poster about the system

my comment on this was:
NO MATHS, RINGS, CLOUDS? U BLASPHEMIST!!!! joking aside, i dig it. to me, this is what modular is all about. do it your way. have fun with your little monsterspaceship


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Re: Yet Another Newbie - Feedback on Controversial Rack Please

Post by ATW » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:29 pm

Granny wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:03 pm
11235813 wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:29 pm
Granny wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:38 pm
is this you?
Hi Granny!

Nope, but I'd love to read more about that system. Is there are Reddit link?
While (to me) this looks like a Eurorack jail cell for wrongfully convicted modules, I must say I admire your dedication to achieving a vision, and one with a strong point-of-view. Don't lose that, it'll be cool to see how this evolves as you dive in. Please keep us posted.
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