just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

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Chopper
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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by Chopper » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:28 pm

tsope wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:52 pm
...
and i do have attenuverters/mixers/offset generators in my system,
...
You don't have a system.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by Pelsea » Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:13 pm

Let me present my approach to utilities. I have a bit less than 1000hp, and maybe 40hp of of that are utilities. I divide utilities into two types—those that fix problems and those that add functions. (Sometimes that’s the same module.) I have no problem with adding functions like slew limiting or comparators that give me more options.
The problem we deal with most often is lack of input attenuators on some module. (You’d think a $350 module would have attenuators on all inputs, but not in eurorack.) Patchable attenuators are the common solution, but if you shop around, you will find properly equipped modules.
The second problem is bipolar LFOs when you want a unipolar and vice-versa. To sort that, you need to add a constant voltage, which requires a mixer. It’s not hard to normal 5 volts to the input of a mixer, but I’d prefer a mode switch on my LFOs. (I’m experimenting with some designs that combine attenuators and offset.)
A less common problem is the mismatch of trigger levels between different brands of module. Brand A may trigger brand B, but brand B won’t trigger brand A. We can solve the issue with a comparator, but a trigger input is not difficult to build right.
So the upshot is the number of utilities you need depends on why you need them. If you concentrate on skinny modules, you may wind up using more hp for utilities than you save on the modules.
Books and tutorials on modular synthesis at http://peterelsea.com
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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by tsope » Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:58 pm

Pelsea wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:13 pm
Let me present my approach to utilities. I have a bit less than 1000hp, and maybe 40hp of of that are utilities. I divide utilities into two types—those that fix problems and those that add functions. (Sometimes that’s the same module.) I have no problem with adding functions like slew limiting or comparators that give me more options.
The problem we deal with most often is lack of input attenuators on some module. (You’d think a $350 module would have attenuators on all inputs, but not in eurorack.) Patchable attenuators are the common solution, but if you shop around, you will find properly equipped modules.
The second problem is bipolar LFOs when you want a unipolar and vice-versa. To sort that, you need to add a constant voltage, which requires a mixer. It’s not hard to normal 5 volts to the input of a mixer, but I’d prefer a mode switch on my LFOs. (I’m experimenting with some designs that combine attenuators and offset.)
A less common problem is the mismatch of trigger levels between different brands of module. Brand A may trigger brand B, but brand B won’t trigger brand A. We can solve the issue with a comparator, but a trigger input is not difficult to build right.
So the upshot is the number of utilities you need depends on why you need them. If you concentrate on skinny modules, you may wind up using more hp for utilities than you save on the modules.
And that is why the best way is diy, if it doesn't have cv over some knob, just add a VACTROL,
no attenuation? no problem, just solder a 10k potentiometer to a cable.
the rest is a bit more complicated, but there is a ton of info about diy solutions online,
after 20 years of eurorack you would think a standard will form :doh:

but then again, if we would have wanted to make it easy for ourselves,
we would just buy a Hydrasynth and a Peak and call it a day,
but we wanted something unique, and look were it got us :hihi:

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by Muff McMuff » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:28 am

So when do you think you will have the rack in front of you and plugged in. You have been planning it in detail for a while and have all kinds of input from other people. There cant be any more planning left to do.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by tsope » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:09 am

Muff McMuff wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:28 am
So when do you think you will have the rack in front of you and plugged in. You have been planning it in detail for a while and have all kinds of input from other people. There cant be any more planning left to do.
Actually, with all the comments it this thread i barely got any useful advice at all,
Just, more vca's and go smaller,
Besides, with covid, worldwide shipping to Israel is crappy atm.
I have made myself a rule, (got to have rules).
I need to be able to stare at system on mg for at least 2 weeks without wanting to change it before i'll pull the trigger.
I am getting closer and closer,
That is were i am atm

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1510331

I really want to add the Telharmonic and the ADDAC405 VC Relabi Generator,
But since i can't bring myself to get rid of any of the modules,
I might just have to pace myself and expend later,
Or maybe i'll just go with a 15u case ;)

I have just finished this version today, so if i'll still be happy with it in 2 weeks i just might go for it.
But in any case, the Stochastic Inspiration Generator, which is going to be my main sequencer is still not available.
So I am not in a hurry to buy yet

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by cptnal » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:17 am

Just buy some modules already.
Is it finished?
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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by transistorresistor » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:18 am

tsope wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:09 am
with all the comments it this thread i barely got any useful advice at all
12 pages and no useful advice, thats when you know its time to buy.

LETS SEE THIS BADBOY IN YOUR BEDROOM!

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by tdallas » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:49 am

tsope wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:09 am
Actually, with all the comments it this thread i barely got any useful advice at all,
Just, more vca's and go smaller,
You are absolutely right. It was "more VCAs and go smaller" only and this even without any sane reasons :mrgreen:
tsope wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:09 am
I have just finished this version today, so if i'll still be happy with it in 2 weeks i just might go for it.
May we give a few more tips within the next two weeks? I think "more VCAs and go smaller" has not been mentioned yet. Jokes aside ... you should seriously leave the Modular Grid phase soon and go for it. It will all come together in the end :tu:

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by three86 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:35 am

tsope wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:09 am
I have made myself a rule, (got to have rules).
I need to be able to stare at system on mg for at least 2 weeks without wanting to change it before i'll pull the trigger.
I am getting closer and closer,
I would be surprised if you could know how much you would enjoy it from looking at mg. Don't get me wrong I love mg and virtually re-arranging modules and planning new setups. But you might hate or love a specific module in real life (or both over time) or want to move it to a different place. For example I thought DPO was my favorite complex osc for years. I just got a cs-l and now I couldn't go back to dpo. Or that I like phonogene over morphagene or other granular and I have tried several. On mg morphagene looks great but in my rack I love using phonogene.

Maybe you enjoy planning as much or more than patching? I know I do. I spend more time organizing and wondering what is better next to what than I should. But it is fun! This is my third journey into eurorack in about 7 years. The secret for me is to buy used or popular modules with 10% off so I haven't lost a lot of money even with buying and selling 100+ of modules. What is the price of fun anyway. This time I have been using 4ms pod 48x's so even my rack is modular (but quickly outgrowing that idea). Maybe try that and put all those modules in 48hp boxes then you can move them around to inspire new patches :) Plus it is a lot of fun to organize them to fit.

As for advice the classic start small is actually good advice not just for saving money but because you figure out what you want over time and it continually evolves. I am still doing it after years of it. Your rule of not changing mg that will never end you will always change mg, see new modules, want them, patch something and want to re-arrange existing modules, etc. I have bought a ton of modules all at once and I have also started with just a few and learned them deeply. Both ways are fun. There isn't a wrong way to do it but I think getting modules at a slower pace is more inspiring because each new module stokes the creativity.

With your rack there are several modules that would be missing for me. This is personal preference and more related to my enjoyment than function but here they are in order of I can't live without:
Make noise tempi
Make noise maths
Make noise optomix
Make noise phonogene
Instruo CS-L

The way I know that I can't live without is because I have bought and sold them several times each (except cs-l).

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by moremagic » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:20 am

tsope wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:09 am
Muff McMuff wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:28 am
So when do you think you will have the rack in front of you and plugged in. You have been planning it in detail for a while and have all kinds of input from other people. There cant be any more planning left to do.
Actually, with all the comments it this thread i barely got any useful advice at all,
Just, more vca's and go smaller,
Besides, with covid, worldwide shipping to Israel is crappy atm.
I have made myself a rule, (got to have rules).
I need to be able to stare at system on mg for at least 2 weeks without wanting to change it before i'll pull the trigger.
I am getting closer and closer,
That is were i am atm

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1510331

I really want to add the Telharmonic and the ADDAC405 VC Relabi Generator,
But since i can't bring myself to get rid of any of the modules,
I might just have to pace myself and expend later,
Or maybe i'll just go with a 15u case ;)

I have just finished this version today, so if i'll still be happy with it in 2 weeks i just might go for it.
But in any case, the Stochastic Inspiration Generator, which is going to be my main sequencer is still not available.
So I am not in a hurry to buy yet
still no matrix mixer?! its like you just *want* to have a bad synthesizer

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by phinland » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:21 am

tsope wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:09 am
Muff McMuff wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:28 am
So when do you think you will have the rack in front of you and plugged in. You have been planning it in detail for a while and have all kinds of input from other people. There cant be any more planning left to do.
That is were i am atm
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1510331
But in any case, the Stochastic Inspiration Generator, which is going to be my main sequencer is still not available.
Great to hear it's the centre of your monster rig! Not too long to wait now––make sure you PM me so I can add you to the Public Sale notification list :-)
Stochastic Instruments Ltd. - https://stochasticinstruments.com/
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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by Raindeer » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:25 am

tsope wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:09 am
But in any case, the Stochastic Inspiration Generator, which is going to be my main sequencer is still not available.
So I am not in a hurry to buy yet
For eurorack, suggest to buy what you can, when you can. There are likely some of your MG modules available now that could disappear for a year or more if you don’t snap them up.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by mutronic » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:29 am

moremagic wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:20 am
tsope wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:09 am
Muff McMuff wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:28 am
So when do you think you will have the rack in front of you and plugged in. You have been planning it in detail for a while and have all kinds of input from other people. There cant be any more planning left to do.
Actually, with all the comments it this thread i barely got any useful advice at all,
Just, more vca's and go smaller,
Besides, with covid, worldwide shipping to Israel is crappy atm.
I have made myself a rule, (got to have rules).
I need to be able to stare at system on mg for at least 2 weeks without wanting to change it before i'll pull the trigger.
I am getting closer and closer,
That is were i am atm

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1510331

I really want to add the Telharmonic and the ADDAC405 VC Relabi Generator,
But since i can't bring myself to get rid of any of the modules,
I might just have to pace myself and expend later,
Or maybe i'll just go with a 15u case ;)

I have just finished this version today, so if i'll still be happy with it in 2 weeks i just might go for it.
But in any case, the Stochastic Inspiration Generator, which is going to be my main sequencer is still not available.
So I am not in a hurry to buy yet
still no matrix mixer?! its like you just *want* to have a bad synthesizer
I agree. take out the acid rain maestro's and get an NLC cluster or a couple of clumps. Also 4 ornament and crimes seems kinda excessive imo, but you do you.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by colossus » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:32 am

Utilities are more than just attenuation and offset (and those aren’t solely for fixing problems). You want comparators, logic, rectification, s&h, switches. Otherwise, why go modular at all?

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by LunaticSound » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:02 am

Yo, I want to agree with MilkyJoe, it is impressive how you stayed friendly, Tsope.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by DukeOfPrunes » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:23 am

LunaticSound wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:02 am
Yo, I want to agree with MilkyJoe, it is impressive how you stayed friendly, Tsope.
+1 Nerves of Steel!

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by cinnatoastg » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:00 am

tsope wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:23 pm
Lux A Turner wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:07 pm
Ok, i am convinced, i'll re install vcv rack and give it a few more tries...
This is the only redeeming quality of this thread, congrats for at least listening to this. Lux wins.

Literal educators in here educating and you say there’s no useful advice given lol.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by MrNezumi » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:28 am

Pelsea wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:13 pm
The problem we deal with most often is lack of input attenuators on some module. (You’d think a $350 module would have attenuators on all inputs, but not in eurorack.) Patchable attenuators are the common solution, but if you shop around, you will find properly equipped modules.
This exact situation could be worded very differently. Attenuators on every input of every module could make a $350 module cost well over $400. It would also eat up a considerable amount of HP for an unnecessary excess of attenuators. I rarely use every input of any (every) module at all times. By using modules made specifically for attenuation you will save money and space in the long run. A properly designed module will take this into consideration and will decide which inputs need a dedicated attenuator and which will be better served by a separate module.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by Lux A Turner » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:36 am

tsope wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:58 pm
...after 20 years of eurorack you would think a standard will form :doh:
For better or worse, Eurorack is a format and not a standard.

There has been quite a bit of discussion on Muffs, about making Eurorack more standardised and a lot of resistance to the idea has come from the market, i.e. the customers and end users themselves.


It may stop, but it never ends.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by tsope » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:23 am

transistorresistor wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:49 pm
Buy your dream synth now, dont delay, youve already had your opinion swayed by internet sage's in this thread, the longer you delay, the longer you stand to risk the purity of your vision to people who insist on using VCA's in a modular setup.
Ha, i will never be swayed, i am too damn stubborn :hihi:

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by Skelecaster » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:31 am

tsope wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:23 am
transistorresistor wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:49 pm
Buy your dream synth now, dont delay, youve already had your opinion swayed by internet sage's in this thread, the longer you delay, the longer you stand to risk the purity of your vision to people who insist on using VCA's in a modular setup.
Ha, i will never be swayed, i am too damn stubborn :hihi:
what is the point of having made these two threads then, jesus wept, just go buy the damn thing and get it over with.

MrNezumi wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:28 am
Pelsea wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:13 pm
The problem we deal with most often is lack of input attenuators on some module. (You’d think a $350 module would have attenuators on all inputs, but not in eurorack.) Patchable attenuators are the common solution, but if you shop around, you will find properly equipped modules.
This exact situation could be worded very differently. Attenuators on every input of every module could make a $350 module cost well over $400. It would also eat up a considerable amount of HP for an unnecessary excess of attenuators. I rarely use every input of any (every) module at all times. By using modules made specifically for attenuation you will save money and space in the long run. A properly designed module will take this into consideration and will decide which inputs need a dedicated attenuator and which will be better served by a separate module.
Not to mention how much nicer it feels ergonomically speaking to have banks of high quality attenuator knobs grouped throughout the system controlling key elements vs trying to get your fingers through spaghetti to twiddle a tiny little bare pot shaft like on-module attenuators so frequently are. But of course we're long past worrying about any sort of ergonomics or usability concerns in this thread.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by transistorresistor » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:19 pm

tsope wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:23 am
Ha, i will never be swayed, i am too damn stubborn :hihi:
I can understand why you might extol this with pride, like it was a positive personality trait worthy of praise, however, lets not overlook the simple facts:

1. You came on here with a vision nobody could understand.
2. You rejected all the "conventionals" in this thread with their obsession w "rules" for page after page

But everyone has a breaking point and

3. You completely abandoned your original masterpiece and made a whole new rack

Let us not fool ourselves, every single day that you stay on this thread and delay your purchase is one day closer to you winding up with only 200hp and a bunch of VCAs. Today is the day you should place your order and get your monster rack on a flight to your country so you can show us all the power of a clear vision. And like you said, if you dont like it you can just give the the whole 600 hp away as a birthday gift so really, no big deal if you dont even like it. This really feels to me like a win win to me.

WHO ARE WE TO JUDGE.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by tsope » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:48 pm

transistorresistor wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:19 pm

You completely abandoned your original masterpiece and made a whole new rack

naaa, the main core of it is all still there, just some supporting modules have been changed
transistorresistor wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:19 pm

Let us not fool ourselves, every single day that you stay on this thread and delay your purchase is one day closer to you winding up with only 200hp and a bunch of VCAs.

ha, never going to happen, but i did made this post since i wasn't all too happy with it as it was.

Looks batter now, i am now debating between using alt or vails as a mixing vca for ona.
It will get there, slow and steady wines the race, or something ;)

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by maudibe » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:34 pm

Just catching up with this thread (wow, it's got legs) - but hell, I couldn't read it all. There is a lot of vitriol, which in my experience over the years seems to be a bit of a new thang.

But, 'tell it like it is' does have its place sometimes.

I think a 'master plan' like this is il-fated, but I get the desire. Also, I have been guilty in the past of buying stuff that I deemed sexy, but was ultimately pretty crap for what I thought I wanted to do. And hence my recent rebuild, and solidification of 'what is a modular'. Over 10 years in the making. And with a shed load of modules to swing about and choose from I am now arriving (after much swapping about) at an 'instrument.

This is something I think that the OP is missing: Experience of actual capabilities and possibilities and limitations, thinking that a spec sheet will tell the full story, and belief that somebodies sales video will tell them the real info and user experience.

I do think that if someone is getting depressed or upset about their modular build and comments made about it, perhaps we should not be encouraging that individual to blow 20k on equipment they may come to regret.

I have had nothing but fun buying, selling and assembling my modular over the years. It should not be something to get stressed about. If you aint ready, you aint ready. To the OP. take a stand back. Check your reality zone. Do you need this? If yes, then learn. If not really, then go and de-stress and buy a really nice capable keyboard, or a shit ton of top end studio gear. After all, it is about making music, no? Or is it about something else?

Read this completely as you want: My Jewish (ex)wife's cousin once berated me about my Fiat Uno, informing me that the price of it would, quote, 'Not even buy a set of tyres for my Porche'. Well. Obviously, he had a problem. :)

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by Kawouddd » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:43 pm

tsope wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:09 am
Muff McMuff wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:28 am
So when do you think you will have the rack in front of you and plugged in. You have been planning it in detail for a while and have all kinds of input from other people. There cant be any more planning left to do.
Actually, with all the comments it this thread i barely got any useful advice at all,
That's pretty unkind to Kevin. :slapfight:

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