just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

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11235813
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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by 11235813 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:43 pm

<deep sigh> OK... I'm back since this doesn't seem like a complete troll, given your YouTube videos....

Newbie here, so take all advice with a grain of salt:

1. Just go to 15U. You're not going to carry a 12U rack in your duffle bag to a beach party, 3U more won't make a difference.

2. Cables. You're going to need a ton of cables. Probably 2x per module at a minimum. Start to look at manufacturers.

3. For me the Mordax Data is VERY important. You'll get mixed reactions here about the necessity, but as an engineer with some electrical background, I want to SEE the voltages & waveforms to help troubleshoot things like negative going LFOs that clip into a VCA which ignores negative voltages, etc. So... Get another Mordax Data. In a system your size, I'm worried that 4 channels isn't enough.

4. Odessa & Hel. Do some research. I've never used it, but it APPEARS to be a VERY capable complex oscillator voice. You may be getting new sounds out of it for years. 2560 interfering sine waves. Some of the YouTubes are spectacular.

5. So, get the Odessa & Hel, center it in your new bottom row. Move the Mordax to one side of the Odessa, and get a second Mordax for the other side of the Odessa. Fill the gaps.

6. What is your sound system? What are you going to connect this system to? Do you have external effects processors? Do you have a way to record your creations? Connection to a computer or DAW?

:-)

Good luck. Post videos.
Last edited by 11235813 on Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by Pelsea » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:47 pm

MrNezumi wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:28 am
Pelsea wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:13 pm
The problem we deal with most often is lack of input attenuators on some module. (You’d think a $350 module would have attenuators on all inputs, but not in eurorack.) Patchable attenuators are the common solution, but if you shop around, you will find properly equipped modules.
This exact situation could be worded very differently. Attenuators on every input of every module could make a $350 module cost well over $400. It would also eat up a considerable amount of HP for an unnecessary excess of attenuators. I rarely use every input of any (every) module at all times. By using modules made specifically for attenuation you will save money and space in the long run. A properly designed module will take this into consideration and will decide which inputs need a dedicated attenuator and which will be better served by a separate module.
And if you look at my system, you will see that most of my modules have attenuators on every CV input. For instance, the most recent item to come through the door is Shapeshifter-- 8 CV inputs, 8 attenuators. Yes, they aren't the Allen-Bradley pots that were on my beloved Emu, but since I mostly set and forget them, that's not a deal breaker. I guess the modules are sort of in the premium range, but in a world where a new bassoon cost $70,000 (with an 8 year waiting list!) an extra $50 on a module is small potatoes.
Literal educators in here educating and you say there’s no useful advice given lol.
I've had many stubborn students in my day. I've found the best approach is not to argue with their preconceptions and present the information as clearly and neutrally as I can. Many of my most successful were major pains in the ass while in class, but came back to me a few years later to thank me for what I taught. (Others, of course continue to muddy my name.) I don't usually get into "what should I buy" discussions, but here is what I hope is useful advice.
  • Make your musical choices first. If you want to make techno, trance, or just learn music theory, find out the type of modules commonly used in examples of that. (Play "spot the module" on YouTube.) The most vital choice is how you are going to control this thing--keyboard, sequencers, DAW, Max?
  • Make a plan of your ultimate system. This will share the fate of all plans, but it's fun to do. Keep the plan a bit vague- list "through zero oscillator" rather than"Westron T20". Note features that are essential, and those that it would be good to have.
  • Get a case that's bigger than you need. If portability is required, get a small case that can be stacked.
  • Spend a bunch on power right out front. Start with overkill. It won't add that much to the cost, and believe me, you won't enjoy upgrading power just before you are ready to go on the road.
  • Buy your modules in batches, with each batch adding a voice or new capability. This is a luxury, not a hindrance. In fact, it's a necessity. In most catalogs, "out of stock" is listed for three out of four modules.
  • Get familiar with a batch before adding the next. You needn't master anything yet, but what you just bought will influence what you buy next.
  • You will probably start with a sensible layout, but be prepared to move things around. You will discover that two modules on opposite sides of the case go well together.
  • The importance of ergonomics cannot be overstated. Your head turns down better than it lifts up, so place the system with the top row just a little above your eyes. All controls should be within easy arms's reach. Performance controls should be the easiest to reach, preferably flat or slightly slanted on the flat in front of the main case.
Last edited by Pelsea on Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Books and tutorials on modular synthesis at http://peterelsea.com
Patch responsibly.
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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by cptnal » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:50 pm

OP needs to amend the text on his avatar.
Is it finished?
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tsope
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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by tsope » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:59 pm

Kawouddd wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:43 pm


That's pretty unkind to Kevin. :slapfight:
I didn't said all comments were useless, and i did got a few ideas of it,
+ alot of people seemed to like reading it, so all in all, not to bad for a thread.
even if it did derailed quite a bit

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by moremagic » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:12 pm

tsope wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:59 pm
Kawouddd wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:43 pm


That's pretty unkind to Kevin. :slapfight:
I didn't said all comments were useless, and i did got a few ideas of it,
+ alot of people seemed to like reading it, so all in all, not to bad for a thread.
even if it did derailed quite a bit
at least youre bragging that people took the bait

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Lux A Turner
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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by Lux A Turner » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:31 pm

A very useful video / thread about basic utilities: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=237668

More useful beginner videos by the same guy: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=238270

Hope that helps :D


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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by tsope » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:03 pm

Lux A Turner wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:31 pm
A very useful video / thread about basic utilities: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=237668

More useful beginner videos by the same guy: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=238270

Hope that helps :D
Indeed a very useful video, i did know that inverting an envelope can be fun,
but using it as a performative tool is very interesting.
the VC Stochastic Function Generator has a built in offset but i didn't thought in can be such a powerful option,
lucky for me the Quadigy has this option too, so i don't need to change anything :russian:

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by three86 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:27 pm

maudibe wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:34 pm
I have had nothing but fun buying, selling and assembling my modular over the years. It should not be something to get stressed about. If you aint ready, you aint ready. To the OP. take a stand back. Check your reality zone. Do you need this? If yes, then learn. If not really, then go and de-stress and buy a really nice capable keyboard, or a shit ton of top end studio gear. After all, it is about making music, no? Or is it about something else?
I think this is an important point that people don't understand or can't relate without experiencing it. I have been in and out of eurorack about seven years like completely zero modules at least three different times, also with massive amounts of modules, as well as steady streams of buying and selling trying every module.

There can be guilt behind it like I have x thousand dollars worth of gear why am I not using it more/all the time/happy whatever. Feelings of needing to change everything. Generally what happens for me is that I look at modules x,y,z and see that I could sell and get a prophet12 or matrixbrute or whatever synth that has a lot of mod routing.

Then eventually realize it isn't about the functionality or being able to save a patch or the new synth from namm. It is the buying, selling, researching, organizing, experimenting and waking up with a new idea of something to try that makes me happy.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by tsope » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:51 pm

11235813 wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:43 pm
1. Just go to 15U. You're not going to carry a 12U rack in your duffle bag to a beach party, 3U more won't make a difference.
I really try not to, at the beginning i wanted to "limit" myself to 9u, clearly didn't worked :hihi:
This eurorack business is one deep rabbit hole.
I been thinking about building a system for years now, And i have been looking at modules for over 5 years,
But i was always too afraid it will all get out of hand quickly,
Part of designing this monster was to build something that that will satisfy me and won't keep me wanting more,
So far, it doesn't look too promising :doh: there are just so many great modules...
11235813 wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:43 pm
2. Cables. You're going to need a ton of cables. Probably 2x per module at a minimum. Start to look at manufacturers.
Yep, already have a list bookmarked, and i plan to diy cables to custom length to keep the spaghetti in chack
11235813 wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:43 pm
3. For me the Mordax Data is VERY important. You'll get mixed reactions here about the necessity, but as an engineer with some electrical background, I want to SEE the voltages & waveforms to help troubleshoot things like negative going LFOs that clip into a VCA which ignores negative voltages, etc. So... Get another Mordax Data. In a system your size, I'm worried that 4 channels isn't enough.
You forgot the most important thing, it can help alot in make sure you won't get any phase cancelations,
And if you do, it can help with fixing them as you can easily see what's going on.
As for two of them... you just had to go there did you? :bang:
11235813 wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:43 pm
4. Odessa & Hel. Do some research. I've never used it, but it APPEARS to be a VERY capable complex oscillator voice. You may be getting new sounds out of it for years. 2560 interfering sine waves. Some of the YouTubes are spectacular.
Yes, been looking at it since it came out, it's awesome :hyper:

11235813 wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:43 pm
6. What is your sound system? What are you going to connect this system to? Do you have external effects processors? Do you have a way to record your creations? Connection to a computer or DAW?
I corently use microlab's solo 6. i have owned a few studio monitors over the years, (krk, jbl, daynaudio)
but my micro's are my favorites, my room is well treated acoustically,
and i have a monster pc and a rme babyface interface
and also an Allen&heat gl2400 32 in storage since i just could not bring myself to sell it, it just soo good.

thanks and have a great one

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by oilpanic » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:51 pm

I’m so curious how did this all pan out? Is there a real system here or did we just make a 13 page thread for fun? I’d like to see some pictures at this point.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by Raindeer » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:25 pm

oilpanic wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:51 pm
I’m so curious how did this all pan out? Is there a real system here or did we just make a 13 page thread for fun? I’d like to see some pictures at this point.
19 pages if you count the first thread too ;)

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by tsope » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:35 pm

oilpanic wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:51 pm
I’m so curious how did this all pan out? Is there a real system here or did we just make a 13 page thread for fun? I’d like to see some pictures at this point.
not yet, still planning and learning.
i know it's hard to really get it without actually using a system, but i am still trying.
if i won't be able to design a system i am happy with i'll go with the "start small and expend" method.
but i haven't given up yet :hihi:

definitely going to post pictures and videos once it's done... when ever it might be :doh:
i am really not in a hurry

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by Stice » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:40 pm

There is literally no way to design a system you'll be happy with from the start. Unless you have experience with the building blocks and then with specific modules, it's just guessing. Starting with a few pieces that let you do *something* will start you on the path of understanding what you want your system to be like.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by tsope » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:40 pm

Raindeer wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:25 pm


19 pages if you count the first thread too ;)
hmm, yes. it did got out of hand.
but i guess that this is what happens when someone is doing something wierd :razz:

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by SavageMessiah » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:41 pm

You don't even necessarily need to start "small". My first buy filled about half of an EP-360, close to 200 hp. I wanted to be able to do some fun generative patching with in-rack effects so I bought the minimum I thought I needed to achieve all of that with plenty of flexibility. No regrets, I think I made good initial choices. I quickly found out what I needed to go further.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by tsope » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:50 pm

Stice wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:40 pm
There is literally no way to design a system you'll be happy with from the start. Unless you have experience with the building blocks and then with specific modules, it's just guessing. Starting with a few pieces that let you do *something* will start you on the path of understanding what you want your system to be like.
i did played around with eurorack before, but never had my own system.

i am now trying to find a way to record my sequencers as the ones i want (Bloom, M-185, Stochastic Inspiration Generator) don't have the option to save and chain sequences

i'll get there eventually

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by tsope » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:02 pm

SavageMessiah wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:41 pm
You don't even necessarily need to start "small". My first buy filled about half of an EP-360, close to 200 hp. I wanted to be able to do some fun generative patching with in-rack effects so I bought the minimum I thought I needed to achieve all of that with plenty of flexibility. No regrets, I think I made good initial choices. I quickly found out what I needed to go further.
well, i am already at 1008hp on my current design, and i want more :doh:
i know, i am hopeless :confused:

i am now thinking of 2 cases and with this big of a system i think i have all i'll need,
but i am still thinking on what to do as far as sequencers, as the ones that i want can't save or chain patterns.

here is were i am now

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1531072
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1531092

as i said, it's a 2 case system.
and i am pretty happy with it apart for the sequencers thing, but i really want the ones i have chosen,
idk, still planning

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by boom blip » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:21 pm

Just buy it already so you can actually figure out if it works for you?

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by klstay » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:28 pm

I offered a few thoughts and ideas back on pages 1 & 2 of this thread and will not do that again. At the same time I have no problem at all with the OP enjoying "modular synthesis" exclusively through planning a system in whatever manner they wish and reading input on that. If an actual system is ever purchased I look forward to seeing photos of it.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by tsope » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:43 pm

boom blip wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:21 pm
Just buy it already so you can actually figure out if it works for you?
well, as i said, i am not in a hurry. especially with shipping taking up to 3 months atm duo to covid.
i really don't want my toys to be laying around in some wherhouse for so long,
now i only need to figure out what I want to do as far as sequencers and wait for this stupid covid to calm down

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by tsope » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:45 pm

klstay wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:28 pm
I offered a few thoughts and ideas back on pages 1 & 2 of this thread and will not do that again. At the same time I have no problem at all with the OP enjoying "modular synthesis" exclusively through planning a system in whatever manner they wish and reading input on that. If an actual system is ever purchased I look forward to seeing photos of it.
my first video of the system will be dedicated to you

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by formica » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:23 pm

Hi. I'm new here and new to modular. I have a small case I build myself with custom rails from etsy, and some modules that complement my moog semi modulars.

Looking like a system like this makes my head spin. It would be very interesting for me to hear tscope do a walk through of some example patches involving the different modules. That would also exemplify (if that is even a word) what went into the thought process.

What is master clock , how is mixing done, is it all dawless? Where do you plug in in your headphones? Etc etc.

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by Agawell » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:32 pm

tsope wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:50 pm

i am now trying to find a way to record my sequencers as the ones i want (Bloom, M-185, Stochastic Inspiration Generator) don't have the option to save and chain sequences

i'll get there eventually
have you looked at Hermod? I'm pretty sure that can record cv and can chain, transpose, (re-)quantise etc
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Utility modules are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the expensive, shiny modules actually shine!!!

an oscillator is an oscillator - utilities are possibilities

choose the case to fit the modules - not the modules to fit the case!!!

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by Agawell » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:33 pm

formica wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:23 pm
Hi. I'm new here and new to modular. I have a small case I build myself with custom rails from etsy, and some modules that complement my moog semi modulars.

Looking like a system like this makes my head spin. It would be very interesting for me to hear tscope do a walk through of some example patches involving the different modules. That would also exemplify (if that is even a word) what went into the thought process.

What is master clock , how is mixing done, is it all dawless? Where do you plug in in your headphones? Etc etc.
I don't think he's bought a module yet!
Modular Audio and Video Synthesis on Instagram

Utility modules are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the expensive, shiny modules actually shine!!!

an oscillator is an oscillator - utilities are possibilities

choose the case to fit the modules - not the modules to fit the case!!!

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Re: just looking for ideas - i have created a monster!?!

Post by goldMarket » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:58 pm


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