Triggering Modular with a Drum Kit

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dansna
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Triggering Modular with a Drum Kit

Post by dansna » Wed May 04, 2011 3:58 pm

Hey everyone,
I've got a vague plan to do a concert involving a drummer playing a drum kit with contact mics on the drums which trigger a modular (doing various things - from drum sounds, to triggering sequences etc. controlled by a second person).

Anyone have any experience with this type of setup? Any advice or ideas?
What modules would be good for getting 4 or 5 drum contact mics triggering a modular at a reasonable price?

This is in the early stages of planning so all input is welcome!
[Sorry if this is discussed elsewhere and I've missed it.]

thanks!

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Post by Arturo00 » Wed May 04, 2011 4:05 pm

I'm not sure what you have in mind for sound sources, or how you're planning on implementing this sort of system, but you might want to consider the following for trigger-MIDI:

Alesis Trigger I/O (http://www.alesis.com/triggerio). Sells for like $200 new.

That combined with the Doepfer A-190-2 might be cool depending on what you want to trigger. If you want to trigger drum sounds from individual drum modules (like the MFB or ASol stuff), you could always go direct from trigger to module...no need for a converter. Please correct me if I'm wrong...
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minja
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Post by minja » Wed May 04, 2011 5:50 pm

I might try to go DIY with a few piezo pickups, a PD or MAX patch - peakamp~ to click~ to create Gates and then out the MOTU ultralite or something from expert sleepers into the modular. Use the gates to trigger envelopes and maybe the loudness from the pickups for CV control.

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Post by infradead » Wed May 04, 2011 6:04 pm

something like this and some piezos would work..

old drum brain. it has midi or 1/4" inputs.. i haven't played with it yet with my piezo pickup yet but it should work, it has trim pots for the sensitivity of the inputs i hope..

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[Djo]
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Post by [Djo] » Wed May 04, 2011 6:07 pm

Hi folks! Have a look there: ;)

[video][/video]

http://synthe-modulaire.forumactif.com/ ... -modulaire

French forum, but you'll find schematic. :tu:

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minja
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Post by minja » Wed May 04, 2011 6:25 pm

[video][/video]

With Nord G2 but it's modular so similar buzz I guess.

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Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Wed May 04, 2011 6:25 pm

First you should try it without buying any extra crap.

I cannot imagine why you would need and MIDI stuff in between.

Some modules respond dynamically to trigger level.
Contact mics could actually be an advantage in this sense.

The only bits I can think of that you might need
(depending on the modules you are triggering)
would be cheap preamps/gain boosters and comparators for deriving solid triggers for picky modules.
Something like Doepfer A-119 might come in handy.

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Post by rico loverde » Wed May 04, 2011 6:28 pm

that was sic [Djo] :yay:
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Post by dansna » Thu May 05, 2011 2:18 am

thanks everyone - really helpful. i guess first i should try going straight in and see if i can get reliable triggering from that but all of these suggestions are really informative. thanks!

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fengland
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Post by fengland » Thu May 05, 2011 12:55 pm

Just preamps to boost the mic signal to line level might work - could use any mic pre - envelope followers could be helpful to avoid retriggering - I did a DIY envelope follower, I don't know what modules are out there. definitely don't need/want midi/computer inbetween.

the Intellijel audio input would be perfect though you'd need 1 per mic...

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minja
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Post by minja » Thu May 05, 2011 3:58 pm

fengland wrote:Just preamps to boost the mic signal to line level might work - could use any mic pre - envelope followers could be helpful to avoid retriggering - I did a DIY envelope follower, I don't know what modules are out there. definitely don't need/want midi/computer inbetween.

the Intellijel audio input would be perfect though you'd need 1 per mic...
My thinking on the computer is I already have a MOTU and Max/PD so it would just cost me the price of the piezos and cabling. I reckon you would need multiple env followers for multiple drum triggers and that can be pricey enough. If you already had a MOTU or some other DC coupled soundcard you could do it for about 20 quid. Cheap enough to test out a couple of ideas and because its on the computer you could have nested sequences like in the Duracell vid. You can't see it in that video but he has a Tom as well and everytime he hits the Tom it plays a chord and loads a new bass and melody sequence to be triggered. Just saying it's the way I'd try it but everyone is different :tu:

DGO I didn't understand that it was you in that vid I thought you were just posting it from that site. Deadly :yay: :yay: :yay:

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Post by MindMachine » Thu May 05, 2011 11:02 pm

I use this guy mounted on a Remo practice pad
http://drums-percussion.musiciansfriend ... sku=444893 into whatever (usaully requires amplification of some sort). There are cheaper ones like this http://drums-percussion.musiciansfriend ... sku=444035.
Piezos can be a less expensive option.

I have even used crappy headphones (like old Sony Walkman) as triggers for drums. Almost anything works, if dialed in correctly.

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AT
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Post by AT » Fri May 06, 2011 12:48 pm

I've actually been working on a solo project for a while using the drumkit as the control surface for interacting with a modular. I think Morton Subotnicks ghost track techniques are very useful for integrating into this kind of concept too. be interested to hear how others are rigging these sounds using volta/silent way etc

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Post by fengland » Fri May 06, 2011 1:01 pm

yeah, computer might be cheaper if you already have the stuff, I just avoid using them for music when possible - personal preference. probly just a mixer with mic pres would work.

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Post by Tombola » Fri May 06, 2011 2:15 pm

Had to mention Andre Duracell in this thread - this is one of my favourite live performance clips ever:



Drums & Nord Modular FTW

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lightworks
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Post by lightworks » Fri May 06, 2011 2:42 pm

if diy is an option you can check this simple mfos schematics:

Image

Image

the last one might need a gate to trigger converter:
http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs24_ ... igger.html

with this two schematics you have audio, cv, gates and triggers available

good luck

(sorry about the big images, don't know why but i can't post mfos links)

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Re:

Post by xcc » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:11 pm

Tombola wrote:
Fri May 06, 2011 2:15 pm
Had to mention Andre Duracell in this thread - this is one of my favourite live performance clips ever:



Drums & Nord Modular FTW
Bumping this thread since I'm putting a drum adjacent palette together for experiments. I know this dude is using a Nord modular, and I have no interest in copying, but as a thought experiment/learning opportunity how does this sequencing work exactly?

Also interested in hearing experiences from those using drums/percussion and other bangy things to control modular in whatever ways.

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Re: Re:

Post by prestosafe » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:36 am

xcc wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:11 pm
Also interested in hearing experiences from those using drums/percussion and other bangy things to control modular in whatever ways.
I do some basic stuff interacting with my euro rack with my drumming. I Have a yamaha mutt-pad that I use with drum triggers that I put on the kick/snare and hi-hat. I had some fun triggering filter envelopes with my accents on kick and snare, and also triggering some odd meter sequences with the kick or snare. I find that the best results have come from when not every single drum hit triggers an event but rather setting the threshold a bit higher so when I emphasise something in my drum pattern, this triggers something in the modular. These past few weeks I've been playing a lot with turing machine style sequencing with my ornament and crime, setting the length of the sequence to an odd number like 5,7.9 or 11 and improvise to this. As I said triggering the sequence when I play an accent and trying to make these odd number melodies feel more "straight" or fit within a more 4/4 beat kind of vibe :)

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Re: Re:

Post by xcc » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:47 am

prestosafe wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:36 am
xcc wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:11 pm
Also interested in hearing experiences from those using drums/percussion and other bangy things to control modular in whatever ways.
I do some basic stuff interacting with my euro rack with my drumming. I Have a yamaha mutt-pad that I use with drum triggers that I put on the kick/snare and hi-hat. I had some fun triggering filter envelopes with my accents on kick and snare, and also triggering some odd meter sequences with the kick or snare. I find that the best results have come from when not every single drum hit triggers an event but rather setting the threshold a bit higher so when I emphasise something in my drum pattern, this triggers something in the modular. These past few weeks I've been playing a lot with turing machine style sequencing with my ornament and crime, setting the length of the sequence to an odd number like 5,7.9 or 11 and improvise to this. As I said triggering the sequence when I play an accent and trying to make these odd number melodies feel more "straight" or fit within a more 4/4 beat kind of vibe :)
Very cool. I’d love to hear some of this if you ever record anything. So from the Yamaha are you converting midi to triggers?

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Re: Re:

Post by prestosafe » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:16 am

xcc wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:47 am
prestosafe wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:36 am
xcc wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:11 pm
Also interested in hearing experiences from those using drums/percussion and other bangy things to control modular in whatever ways.
I do some basic stuff interacting with my euro rack with my drumming. I Have a yamaha mutt-pad that I use with drum triggers that I put on the kick/snare and hi-hat. I had some fun triggering filter envelopes with my accents on kick and snare, and also triggering some odd meter sequences with the kick or snare. I find that the best results have come from when not every single drum hit triggers an event but rather setting the threshold a bit higher so when I emphasise something in my drum pattern, this triggers something in the modular. These past few weeks I've been playing a lot with turing machine style sequencing with my ornament and crime, setting the length of the sequence to an odd number like 5,7.9 or 11 and improvise to this. As I said triggering the sequence when I play an accent and trying to make these odd number melodies feel more "straight" or fit within a more 4/4 beat kind of vibe :)
Very cool. I’d love to hear some of this if you ever record anything. So from the Yamaha are you converting midi to triggers?
Sure thing will try to upload some example later! :)
Yeah so I route the midi out from my Yamaha pad to my polyend poly 2 midi-cv interface and coverts the midi data to, gates, cv notes etc :)

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Re: Triggering Modular with a Drum Kit

Post by DSC » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:39 am

I built a 'little kit' platform. It uses MIDI and piezo mics. Pulplogic has 1U modules that work great!
http://pulplogic.com/product/ctact/

Image

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Re: Re:

Post by xcc » Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:56 pm

prestosafe wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:16 am
xcc wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:47 am
prestosafe wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:36 am
xcc wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:11 pm
Also interested in hearing experiences from those using drums/percussion and other bangy things to control modular in whatever ways.
I do some basic stuff interacting with my euro rack with my drumming. I Have a yamaha mutt-pad that I use with drum triggers that I put on the kick/snare and hi-hat. I had some fun triggering filter envelopes with my accents on kick and snare, and also triggering some odd meter sequences with the kick or snare. I find that the best results have come from when not every single drum hit triggers an event but rather setting the threshold a bit higher so when I emphasise something in my drum pattern, this triggers something in the modular. These past few weeks I've been playing a lot with turing machine style sequencing with my ornament and crime, setting the length of the sequence to an odd number like 5,7.9 or 11 and improvise to this. As I said triggering the sequence when I play an accent and trying to make these odd number melodies feel more "straight" or fit within a more 4/4 beat kind of vibe :)
Very cool. I’d love to hear some of this if you ever record anything. So from the Yamaha are you converting midi to triggers?
Sure thing will try to upload some example later! :)
Yeah so I route the midi out from my Yamaha pad to my polyend poly 2 midi-cv interface and coverts the midi data to, gates, cv notes etc :)
I was planning to use contact mics straight to the rack, but it does look like MIDI will take up a lot less space in the case. Naturally I don't have any MIDI conversion in Euro format right now but I might have to pull the trigger on something. I forgot I have an Alesis Controlpad collecting dust that I can experiment with. If nothing else that could help with a proof of concept.

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Re: Triggering Modular with a Drum Kit

Post by xcc » Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:57 pm

DSC wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:39 am
I built a 'little kit' platform. It uses MIDI and piezo mics. Pulplogic has 1U modules that work great!
http://pulplogic.com/product/ctact/

Image
Very nicely done. I suppose it'll be a cold day in hell when I can get an Intellijel 1U version of that piezo preamp ;)

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Re: Re:

Post by prestosafe » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:01 pm

xcc wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:56 pm
prestosafe wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:16 am
xcc wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:47 am
prestosafe wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:36 am
xcc wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:11 pm
Also interested in hearing experiences from those using drums/percussion and other bangy things to control modular in whatever ways.
I do some basic stuff interacting with my euro rack with my drumming. I Have a yamaha mutt-pad that I use with drum triggers that I put on the kick/snare and hi-hat. I had some fun triggering filter envelopes with my accents on kick and snare, and also triggering some odd meter sequences with the kick or snare. I find that the best results have come from when not every single drum hit triggers an event but rather setting the threshold a bit higher so when I emphasise something in my drum pattern, this triggers something in the modular. These past few weeks I've been playing a lot with turing machine style sequencing with my ornament and crime, setting the length of the sequence to an odd number like 5,7.9 or 11 and improvise to this. As I said triggering the sequence when I play an accent and trying to make these odd number melodies feel more "straight" or fit within a more 4/4 beat kind of vibe :)
Very cool. I’d love to hear some of this if you ever record anything. So from the Yamaha are you converting midi to triggers?
Sure thing will try to upload some example later! :)
Yeah so I route the midi out from my Yamaha pad to my polyend poly 2 midi-cv interface and coverts the midi data to, gates, cv notes etc :)
I was planning to use contact mics straight to the rack, but it does look like MIDI will take up a lot less space in the case. Naturally I don't have any MIDI conversion in Euro format right now but I might have to pull the trigger on something. I forgot I have an Alesis Controlpad collecting dust that I can experiment with. If nothing else that could help with a proof of concept.
That should work fine! I used a roland pad before, but switched to the yamaha because I could send up to 4 midi notes o different channels per pad etc. :) If you want to save space check out the cv.ocd, then you get 4 cvs and a ton of gates and triggers :)

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Re: Triggering Modular with a Drum Kit

Post by titaanzink » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:15 pm

One could argue the Mutable Instruments Ears is made for what you want to achieve. Mic input and envelope follower in a single smallish module. Downside is you would need one per channel which could get expensive

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