Krell

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Post by The Junglechrist » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:12 am

[video][/video]

Pressure Krell !


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Here is my Krell

Post by Dadaisme » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:24 pm

Hi!

Just found this tread... since I have made one last week, here is my "Krell" : Krell patch




Thx

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Re: Here is my Krell

Post by cptnal » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:40 pm

Dadaisme wrote:Hi!

Just found this tread... since I have made one last week, here is my "Krell" : Krell patch




Thx
Krelltastic! :tu:

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Post by BRNT » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:16 am

franman69 wrote:Accumulating Krellars

https://soundcloud.com/franman69/accumulating-krellars
Really love the last part! Like from a prequel of Forbidden Planet!

:ripbanana:

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Post by Mark II » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:32 am

The thing is to put a motor in yourself - fz

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Post by cptnal » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:06 am

Mark II wrote:New Krell, first try ...
https://soundcloud.com/markvangaalen/light-water
8-)

What's responsible for the clangs?

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Post by Mark II » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:09 am

cptnal wrote:
Mark II wrote:New Krell, first try ...
https://soundcloud.com/markvangaalen/light-water
8-)

What's responsible for the clangs?
Thats the Krell warriors sword resonating, its tip scratching over the cracks between the tiles of the Great Hall, while the warrior reverently makes his way to the Krell Grand Auditor.

Back on Earth, its (if I remember correctly) FM-ed A-111-2 through MI Elements Ext In, filtered by Belgrad on the inverse envelope of one of the A-141-2's.

This is one of those patches where I'm relieved I hit Record on my DAW :banana: but forgot to make patch-notes :deadbanana:
The thing is to put a motor in yourself - fz

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Post by cptnal » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:45 am

Mark II wrote:
cptnal wrote:
Mark II wrote:New Krell, first try ...
https://soundcloud.com/markvangaalen/light-water
8-)

What's responsible for the clangs?
Thats the Krell warriors sword resonating, its tip scratching over the cracks between the tiles of the Great Hall, while the warrior reverently makes his way to the Krell Grand Auditor.

Back on Earth, its (if I remember correctly) FM-ed A-111-2 through MI Elements Ext In, filtered by Belgrad on the inverse envelope of one of the A-141-2's.

This is one of those patches where I'm relieved I hit Record on my DAW :banana: but forgot to make patch-notes :deadbanana:
:tu:

Much the same myself. Patch notes are for squares. :deadbanana:

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Post by metasonix » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:01 pm

http://soundworkscollection.com/news/cr ... den-planet
Soon after relocation to New York, the Barrons opened a recording studio at 9 West 8th Street in Greenwich Village that catered to the avant-garde scene. This may have been the very first electronic music studio in America. At the studio, the Barrons used a tape recorder to record everything and everyone. They recorded Henry Miller, Tennessee Williams, and Aldous Huxley reading their work in a form of early audio book. In June 1949, Anaïs Nin recorded a full version of House of Incest and four other stories from Under a Glass Bell. These recordings were pressed on red vinyl and released on the Barrons' Contemporary Classics record label under the Sound Portraits series.

For a short time, the Barrons held a monopoly on tape recording equipment. The only other competition in town were the studios owned by Raymond Scott and Eric Siday. The connection through Louis' cousin working at 3M proved to be vital in obtaining batches of early magnetic tape. Due to the lack of competition in the field, and to the surprise of the owners, the recording business was a success.

Aside from the tape recorders, most of the equipment in the studio was completely built by Louis. One of the home made pieces was a monstrous speaker which could produce very heavy bass. Electronic oscillators that produced sawtooth, sine, and square waves were also home built prize possessions. They had a filter, a spring reverberator, and several tape recorders. The Stancil-Hoffmann reel to reel was custom built by the inventor for looping the samples, and changing their speed. The thriving business brought in enough income to purchase some commercial equipment.

The Barrons' music was noticed by the avant-garde scene. During 1952-53 the studio was used by John Cage for his very first tape work Williams Mix. The Barrons were hired by Cage to be the engineers. They recorded over 600 different sounds, and arranged them with Cage's directions in various ways by splicing the tape together. The four and a half minute piece took over a year to finish. Cage also worked in the Barrons' studio on his Music for Magnetic Tape with other notable composers, including Morton Feldman, Earle Brown, and David Tudor. It was Cage who first encouraged the Barrons to consider their creations "music".
And all made of tubes. You will have great difficulty simulating their sound with all your pretty little solid-state modules. Tape recorders would probably help also.

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Post by gonkulator » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:31 pm

metasonix wrote:http://soundworkscollection.com/news/cr ... den-planet
Soon after relocation to New York, the Barrons opened a recording studio at 9 West 8th Street in Greenwich Village that catered to the avant-garde scene. This may have been the very first electronic music studio in America. At the studio, the Barrons used a tape recorder to record everything and everyone. They recorded Henry Miller, Tennessee Williams, and Aldous Huxley reading their work in a form of early audio book. In June 1949, Anaïs Nin recorded a full version of House of Incest and four other stories from Under a Glass Bell. These recordings were pressed on red vinyl and released on the Barrons' Contemporary Classics record label under the Sound Portraits series.

For a short time, the Barrons held a monopoly on tape recording equipment. The only other competition in town were the studios owned by Raymond Scott and Eric Siday. The connection through Louis' cousin working at 3M proved to be vital in obtaining batches of early magnetic tape. Due to the lack of competition in the field, and to the surprise of the owners, the recording business was a success.

Aside from the tape recorders, most of the equipment in the studio was completely built by Louis. One of the home made pieces was a monstrous speaker which could produce very heavy bass. Electronic oscillators that produced sawtooth, sine, and square waves were also home built prize possessions. They had a filter, a spring reverberator, and several tape recorders. The Stancil-Hoffmann reel to reel was custom built by the inventor for looping the samples, and changing their speed. The thriving business brought in enough income to purchase some commercial equipment.

The Barrons' music was noticed by the avant-garde scene. During 1952-53 the studio was used by John Cage for his very first tape work Williams Mix. The Barrons were hired by Cage to be the engineers. They recorded over 600 different sounds, and arranged them with Cage's directions in various ways by splicing the tape together. The four and a half minute piece took over a year to finish. Cage also worked in the Barrons' studio on his Music for Magnetic Tape with other notable composers, including Morton Feldman, Earle Brown, and David Tudor. It was Cage who first encouraged the Barrons to consider their creations "music".
And all made of tubes. You will have great difficulty simulating their sound with all your pretty little solid-state modules. Tape recorders would probably help also.
It also continues to beg the question of a Krell patch
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Post by authorless » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:43 pm

gonkulator wrote:
metasonix wrote:http://soundworkscollection.com/news/cr ... den-planet
Soon after relocation to New York, the Barrons opened a recording studio at 9 West 8th Street in Greenwich Village that catered to the avant-garde scene. This may have been the very first electronic music studio in America. At the studio, the Barrons used a tape recorder to record everything and everyone. They recorded Henry Miller, Tennessee Williams, and Aldous Huxley reading their work in a form of early audio book. In June 1949, Anaïs Nin recorded a full version of House of Incest and four other stories from Under a Glass Bell. These recordings were pressed on red vinyl and released on the Barrons' Contemporary Classics record label under the Sound Portraits series.

For a short time, the Barrons held a monopoly on tape recording equipment. The only other competition in town were the studios owned by Raymond Scott and Eric Siday. The connection through Louis' cousin working at 3M proved to be vital in obtaining batches of early magnetic tape. Due to the lack of competition in the field, and to the surprise of the owners, the recording business was a success.

Aside from the tape recorders, most of the equipment in the studio was completely built by Louis. One of the home made pieces was a monstrous speaker which could produce very heavy bass. Electronic oscillators that produced sawtooth, sine, and square waves were also home built prize possessions. They had a filter, a spring reverberator, and several tape recorders. The Stancil-Hoffmann reel to reel was custom built by the inventor for looping the samples, and changing their speed. The thriving business brought in enough income to purchase some commercial equipment.

The Barrons' music was noticed by the avant-garde scene. During 1952-53 the studio was used by John Cage for his very first tape work Williams Mix. The Barrons were hired by Cage to be the engineers. They recorded over 600 different sounds, and arranged them with Cage's directions in various ways by splicing the tape together. The four and a half minute piece took over a year to finish. Cage also worked in the Barrons' studio on his Music for Magnetic Tape with other notable composers, including Morton Feldman, Earle Brown, and David Tudor. It was Cage who first encouraged the Barrons to consider their creations "music".
And all made of tubes. You will have great difficulty simulating their sound with all your pretty little solid-state modules. Tape recorders would probably help also.
It also continues to beg the question of a Krell patch
What do you mean?
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Post by cptnal » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:51 am

Is it going to turn into another one of those "it's not authentic if you don't grow your own electrons" threads? I love those. :roll:

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Post by gonkulator » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:42 am

authorless wrote:
gonkulator wrote:
metasonix wrote:http://soundworkscollection.com/news/cr ... den-planet
Soon after relocation to New York, the Barrons opened a recording studio at 9 West 8th Street in Greenwich Village that catered to the avant-garde scene. This may have been the very first electronic music studio in America. At the studio, the Barrons used a tape recorder to record everything and everyone. They recorded Henry Miller, Tennessee Williams, and Aldous Huxley reading their work in a form of early audio book. In June 1949, Anaïs Nin recorded a full version of House of Incest and four other stories from Under a Glass Bell. These recordings were pressed on red vinyl and released on the Barrons' Contemporary Classics record label under the Sound Portraits series.

For a short time, the Barrons held a monopoly on tape recording equipment. The only other competition in town were the studios owned by Raymond Scott and Eric Siday. The connection through Louis' cousin working at 3M proved to be vital in obtaining batches of early magnetic tape. Due to the lack of competition in the field, and to the surprise of the owners, the recording business was a success.

Aside from the tape recorders, most of the equipment in the studio was completely built by Louis. One of the home made pieces was a monstrous speaker which could produce very heavy bass. Electronic oscillators that produced sawtooth, sine, and square waves were also home built prize possessions. They had a filter, a spring reverberator, and several tape recorders. The Stancil-Hoffmann reel to reel was custom built by the inventor for looping the samples, and changing their speed. The thriving business brought in enough income to purchase some commercial equipment.

The Barrons' music was noticed by the avant-garde scene. During 1952-53 the studio was used by John Cage for his very first tape work Williams Mix. The Barrons were hired by Cage to be the engineers. They recorded over 600 different sounds, and arranged them with Cage's directions in various ways by splicing the tape together. The four and a half minute piece took over a year to finish. Cage also worked in the Barrons' studio on his Music for Magnetic Tape with other notable composers, including Morton Feldman, Earle Brown, and David Tudor. It was Cage who first encouraged the Barrons to consider their creations "music".
And all made of tubes. You will have great difficulty simulating their sound with all your pretty little solid-state modules. Tape recorders would probably help also.
It also continues to beg the question of a Krell patch
What do you mean?
I have yet to see any connection between the "Krell Patch" as defined and outlined, and the music/sounds/tonalities and techniques the Barrons created for Forbidden Planet, especially in light of the article referenced above. I know I am making too much of this and have beaten the horse to a pulp, but since much more talented persons than I defined the Krell patch, I had hoped for an explanation of how a patch can be defined based on apparently almost completely different techniques.
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Post by cptnal » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:29 am

I hesitate to criticize anyone for holding strong views, so let me offer an alternative.

The debate appears to centre on where which (or how many) techniques are collectively given the name. In this case most of us would struggle to get our hands on the tubes and tape recorders referred to, so we work with what we've got. These kinds of limitations are all over the place in the history of music and are responsible for some of its major developments. Beethoven was deaf. Jimi Hendrix played a right-handed guitar upside down. Django Reinhart only had two fingers on his left hand... Another word for it might be creativity. Or art.

Whether you can still give the result the same name is another question. When we hear the name of a genre we all have expectations of what we're likely to hear, and there are as many sets of expectations as there are listeners. We can argue and argue, but we're unlikely to convince anyone to change their mind. Some people have broader definitions than others.

On the other hand, if the argument is about maintaining some kind of purity of form, there is none anywhere in music, so why should Krell be different? If I'd created an entirely new genre I'd be flattered that people wanted to develop it.

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Post by Mark II » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:29 am

gonkulator wrote:
authorless wrote:
gonkulator wrote:
metasonix wrote:http://soundworkscollection.com/news/cr ... den-planet
Soon after relocation to New York, the Barrons opened a recording studio at 9 West 8th Street in Greenwich Village that catered to the avant-garde scene. This may have been the very first electronic music studio in America. At the studio, the Barrons used a tape recorder to record everything and everyone. They recorded Henry Miller, Tennessee Williams, and Aldous Huxley reading their work in a form of early audio book. In June 1949, Anaïs Nin recorded a full version of House of Incest and four other stories from Under a Glass Bell. These recordings were pressed on red vinyl and released on the Barrons' Contemporary Classics record label under the Sound Portraits series.

For a short time, the Barrons held a monopoly on tape recording equipment. The only other competition in town were the studios owned by Raymond Scott and Eric Siday. The connection through Louis' cousin working at 3M proved to be vital in obtaining batches of early magnetic tape. Due to the lack of competition in the field, and to the surprise of the owners, the recording business was a success.

Aside from the tape recorders, most of the equipment in the studio was completely built by Louis. One of the home made pieces was a monstrous speaker which could produce very heavy bass. Electronic oscillators that produced sawtooth, sine, and square waves were also home built prize possessions. They had a filter, a spring reverberator, and several tape recorders. The Stancil-Hoffmann reel to reel was custom built by the inventor for looping the samples, and changing their speed. The thriving business brought in enough income to purchase some commercial equipment.

The Barrons' music was noticed by the avant-garde scene. During 1952-53 the studio was used by John Cage for his very first tape work Williams Mix. The Barrons were hired by Cage to be the engineers. They recorded over 600 different sounds, and arranged them with Cage's directions in various ways by splicing the tape together. The four and a half minute piece took over a year to finish. Cage also worked in the Barrons' studio on his Music for Magnetic Tape with other notable composers, including Morton Feldman, Earle Brown, and David Tudor. It was Cage who first encouraged the Barrons to consider their creations "music".
And all made of tubes. You will have great difficulty simulating their sound with all your pretty little solid-state modules. Tape recorders would probably help also.
It also continues to beg the question of a Krell patch
What do you mean?
I have yet to see any connection between the "Krell Patch" as defined and outlined, and the music/sounds/tonalities and techniques the Barrons created for Forbidden Planet, especially in light of the article referenced above. I know I am making too much of this and have beaten the horse to a pulp, but since much more talented persons than I defined the Krell patch, I had hoped for an explanation of how a patch can be defined based on apparently almost completely different techniques.
So do I, and I see the work/patches/'music' I make inspired by such a notion as 'the Krell patch' as completely indpendent from the outcome of such a discourse.
Hence my tongue-in-cheek reference to Krell warriors and the Krell Grand Auditor, none of which feature in the original work, but feature in my mind. In my mind all this makes perfect sense and merits little definition.
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Post by Dcramer » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:32 am

Great to see the Barron’s history included in here. :

I think it’s important to keep in mind that the actual link between the music that the Barron’s created (and the movie script) and what we do when we patch up a ‘Krell’ patch is easy to determine; Todd Barton.
Barton, a highly regarded synthesist and member of this forum is, I believe, the creator of a specific Buchla patch that generates a beautiful, expressive, monophonic voice. Todd named this the ‘Krell Muzak’ patch and it his brilliant, everchanging envelope, tied to a clocked Random Melody, that constitutes an actual Krell patch. I have used his patch to create my own variation and to design various polyphonic monstrosities around it, although most of my large Generative patches do not have a Barton-Krell at its centre, I have been asked on many occasions to shed light on the mysteries of the Krell patch.
With much interest in modular synthesis arising in Europe I was asked to create and perform one of my Poly Krell patches for the Museum of Sound event in the Netherlands last weekend. I have been documenting the process in this thread and will be providing detailed patch notes and video of the patch over the next few weeks. The live album of My performance should be in your grocers freezer by June 30!

viewtopic.php?t=202135

:party: :party: :party:

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Post by Mark II » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:05 am

Dcramer wrote:Great to see the Barron’s history included in here. :

I think it’s important to keep in mind that the actual link between the music that the Barron’s created (and the movie script) and what we do when we patch up a ‘Krell’ patch is easy to determine; Todd Barton.
Barton, a highly regarded synthesist and member of this forum is, I believe, the creator of a specific Buchla patch that generates a beautiful, expressive, monophonic voice. Todd named this the ‘Krell Muzak’ patch and it his brilliant, everchanging envelope, tied to a clocked Random Melody, that constitutes an actual Krell patch. I have used his patch to create my own variation and to design various polyphonic monstrosities around it, although most of my large Generative patches do not have a Barton-Krell at its centre, I have been asked on many occasions to shed light on the mysteries of the Krell patch.
With much interest in modular synthesis arising in Europe I was asked to create and perform one of my Poly Krell patches for the Museum of Sound event in the Netherlands last weekend. I have been documenting the process in this thread and will be providing detailed patch notes and video of the patch over the next few weeks. The live album of My performance should be in your grocers freezer by June 30!

viewtopic.php?t=202135

:party: :party: :party:
:hail:
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Post by gonkulator » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:35 pm

cptnal wrote:I hesitate to criticize anyone for holding strong views, so let me offer an alternative.

The debate appears to centre on where which (or how many) techniques are collectively given the name. In this case most of us would struggle to get our hands on the tubes and tape recorders referred to, so we work with what we've got. These kinds of limitations are all over the place in the history of music and are responsible for some of its major developments. Beethoven was deaf. Jimi Hendrix played a right-handed guitar upside down. Django Reinhart only had two fingers on his left hand... Another word for it might be creativity. Or art.

Whether you can still give the result the same name is another question. When we hear the name of a genre we all have expectations of what we're likely to hear, and there are as many sets of expectations as there are listeners. We can argue and argue, but we're unlikely to convince anyone to change their mind. Some people have broader definitions than others.

On the other hand, if the argument is about maintaining some kind of purity of form, there is none anywhere in music, so why should Krell be different? If I'd created an entirely new genre I'd be flattered that people wanted to develop it.
This is the kind of conversation that I have hoped for. I am not interested in the circuits so much as the patch concept explanation. As to the purity of form, I have seen earlier in this thread that such and such result isn't really Krell, because it doesn't use the specific techniques defined by the originator of the patch. Which to me begs the questions of not only how could there be one specific patch called Krell, but how is that patch Krell-like? There is a whole world of sounds to explore and be inspired by within the soundtrack of Forbidden Planet. What would be useful to me are conversations about how one made something akin to some sound in the movie. Or creating music that is inspired by the "Ancient Krell Music" in the movie, and explaining the concept behind the techniques used.
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Post by cptnal » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:30 am

Interesting... My understanding of the Krell patch matches Dcramer's description. I didn't know it originated with Todd Barton, but I was watching some videos on Mr Barton's YouTube channel the other day and found a walk-through of his Aleph patch, which appeared to be more or less the same. Don't know what to make of that, but I suspect it's academic. :hmm:

In any case, as described, the Krell patch seems to me more of a technique that you would use in a bigger patch than a patch to itself. There are only two modules at the heart of it after all (VC function generator/sample and hold). Or are there other factors we would include to raise this from a "technique" into a full "Krell patch"?

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Post by Dcramer » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:48 am

^correct as I see it.
It’s the terminology that we’ve adopted that adds the mystery but essentially we’ve got a patch, so brilliantly conceived, that we wish to repeat it.
It was created by Todd and he chose to reference the Krell in his patch name.
Obviously one can make all sorts of random, mysterious Forbidden Planet inspired patches without going in the same direction as Todd originally did, but I’ve always referenced his original work when I’ve used it.
This topic may explain why I talk to so many modular users who are interested in the patch but don’t really know how it’s constructed or where it came from.
I really encourage everyone in here to check out Todd (Vegermuse) in the Buchla Serge forum, he and many others have tons of great info on patching that can easily be transcribed to Eurorack :tu:

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Post by cptnal » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:57 am

Dcramer wrote:I really encourage everyone in here to check out Todd (Vegermuse) in the Buchla Serge forum, he and many others have tons of great info on patching that can easily be transcribed to Eurorack :tu:
Without wanting to drift too much OT, I'll second this, and checking out Serge/Buchla patching in general. I've started doing it only recently, but I've already picked up a whole bunch of ideas. :cloud:

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Post by Mark II » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:25 pm

Based on mr. Bartons approach to the Krell I patched another one. Ran out of cables on this one

Mainly Elements and Rings through two A-141-2s with random A and R, and various modulations added. I like running FMed VCOs through Rings In.

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A Krell patch is born

Post by iamalanivierra » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:54 am


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