Krell

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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cptnal
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Post by cptnal » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:48 am

Funny you should say that. Felt exactly the same yesterday. Whether the end result bears any resemblance to the Todd Barton patch, it's always a good starting point.

(P.S. There's a gap in your post that suggests there's embedded audio that I can't see. The above comment is not intended as a criticism of its Krellness.)
Is it finished?
Latest Tune:
Sounds: SoundCloud , Freesound
Racks: Big Case, Top Row, Funboat, Tinicase

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gis_sweden
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Post by gis_sweden » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:31 am

cptnal wrote:...resemblance to the Todd Barton patch, it's always a good starting point.
:lol:
cptnal wrote: (P.S. There's a gap in your post that suggests there's embedded audio that I can't see.
Don't you see the embedded SoundCloud file? :hmm:

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Post by cptnal » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:55 am

gis_sweden wrote:
cptnal wrote: (P.S. There's a gap in your post that suggests there's embedded audio that I can't see.
Don't you see the embedded SoundCloud file? :hmm:
Don't worry - I'm supposed to be working. :goo:

I'm sure it's there for everyone else. I'll give it a listen when I get home. :tu:
Is it finished?
Latest Tune:
Sounds: SoundCloud , Freesound
Racks: Big Case, Top Row, Funboat, Tinicase

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Post by gis_sweden » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:47 am

cptnal wrote: I'll give it a listen when I get home.
¨
Just imagine a standard Krell patch. A bit old school. You can do that and work at the same time. :party:

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Post by cptnal » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:32 pm

gis_sweden wrote:
cptnal wrote: I'll give it a listen when I get home.
¨
Just imagine a standard Krell patch. A bit old school. You can do that and work at the same time. :party:
OK, listened to it in all its unblocked glory. Forty seven seconds is too modest. :sb:
Is it finished?
Latest Tune:
Sounds: SoundCloud , Freesound
Racks: Big Case, Top Row, Funboat, Tinicase

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Post by natureclubcassettes » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:42 pm

cptnal wrote:
gis_sweden wrote:
cptnal wrote: I'll give it a listen when I get home.
¨
Just imagine a standard Krell patch. A bit old school. You can do that and work at the same time. :party:
OK, listened to it in all its unblocked glory. Forty seven seconds is too modest. :sb:
much too modest.... i wouldn't bat an eye if you told me this was a serge patch

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Post by gis_sweden » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:56 pm

natureclubcassettes wrote: i wouldn't bat an eye if you told me this was a serge patch
We all want to sound like Serge... I have tried to sound more "electric" and "nasty" - more Serge. Usually my synth sounds to ehhhh kind/gentle/soft/sweet.
If I just sound a little bit Sergy I'm happy :cloud:

(Why does Serge sound like they do??? Same wave forms. Same modules for additive respective subtractive techniques. WHY! :eek: )

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Post by Mark II » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:00 pm

gis_sweden wrote:Sometimes you just feel like patching up a Krell.
Yes, sometimes you do. Nice patch!
The thing is to put a motor in yourself - fz

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Post by natureclubcassettes » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:49 pm

gis_sweden wrote:
natureclubcassettes wrote: i wouldn't bat an eye if you told me this was a serge patch
We all want to sound like Serge... I have tried to sound more "electric" and "nasty" - more Serge. Usually my synth sounds to ehhhh kind/gentle/soft/sweet.
If I just sound a little bit Sergy I'm happy :cloud:

(Why does Serge sound like they do??? Same wave forms. Same modules for additive respective subtractive techniques. WHY! :eek: )
i hear ya... was thinking of going 4U, but instead i retooled my eurorack to be a processor for my octave cat, as it's sound generators/modifiers sound so much better than my eurorack oscillators. i know, apples and oranges, but still....

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cptnal
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Post by cptnal » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:45 am

gis_sweden wrote:
natureclubcassettes wrote: i wouldn't bat an eye if you told me this was a serge patch
We all want to sound like Serge... I have tried to sound more "electric" and "nasty" - more Serge. Usually my synth sounds to ehhhh kind/gentle/soft/sweet.
If I just sound a little bit Sergy I'm happy :cloud:

(Why does Serge sound like they do??? Same wave forms. Same modules for additive respective subtractive techniques. WHY! :eek: )
Forgot to ask...

I'm not big on reverb in general, but that spring is quite lovely. What is it?
Is it finished?
Latest Tune:
Sounds: SoundCloud , Freesound
Racks: Big Case, Top Row, Funboat, Tinicase

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Post by gis_sweden » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:47 am

This is maybe a little of topic… Why does serge, or your favorite synth, sound “better” than your eurorack?? Are analog eurorack oscillators to clean? Just speculating now!!! I hope there are someone out there to give an answer.

Suppose you have an analog “standard” oscillator. Usually they output 4 wave forms. There must be ways to shape the output to fit all tastes. This IS eurorack!

Natureclubcassettes (interesting username) said that my little Krell almost sounded like Serge. Why did it sound like Serge. What did I do. As oscillators I used a Noise Reap Bermuda through a filter, and a 2hp OSC through a wave shaper. No “clean” standard wave forms. Bermuda has this “self mod” function. Sounds like this
https://freesound.org/people/gis_sweden/sounds/447762/
When does it sound Serge…:hihi: ?

But “self mod” is not some strange function. Here you have the standard Doepfer A-110 “self modulated”, simple feedback.
https://freesound.org/people/gis_sweden/sounds/447763/
Added spring reverb from Doepfer A-199 with standard tank and delay from my delay pedal https://www.modulargrid.net/p/joyo-delayanalog

Here is a sound with two “self modulated” oscillators. A self modulated A-110. A self modulated Bermuda through filter with some res. Just some random, but it sounds much more “electronic” and mean than standard wave forms.
https://freesound.org/people/gis_sweden/sounds/447768/

The grass is always greener on the other side…? The analog/digital/Serge/Buchla/5U side.

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cptnal
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Post by cptnal » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:18 am

Disagree - nothing sounds better than my Eurorack. :party:

But the human brain is very good at convincing us things are true despite all evidence to the contrary. That doesn't mean that some of us are feeble-minded and prone to delusion - it happens to everyone.
Is it finished?
Latest Tune:
Sounds: SoundCloud , Freesound
Racks: Big Case, Top Row, Funboat, Tinicase

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Post by Drakhe » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:11 am

gis_sweden wrote:This is maybe a little of topic… Why does serge, or your favorite synth, sound “better” than your eurorack?? Are analog eurorack oscillators to clean? Just speculating now!!! I hope there are someone out there to give an answer.

Suppose you have an analog “standard” oscillator. Usually they output 4 wave forms. There must be ways to shape the output to fit all tastes. This IS eurorack!

Natureclubcassettes (interesting username) said that my little Krell almost sounded like Serge. Why did it sound like Serge. What did I do. As oscillators I used a Noise Reap Bermuda through a filter, and a 2hp OSC through a wave shaper. No “clean” standard wave forms. Bermuda has this “self mod” function. Sounds like this
https://freesound.org/people/gis_sweden/sounds/447762/
When does it sound Serge…:hihi: ?

But “self mod” is not some strange function. Here you have the standard Doepfer A-110 “self modulated”, simple feedback.
https://freesound.org/people/gis_sweden/sounds/447763/
Added spring reverb from Doepfer A-199 with standard tank and delay from my delay pedal https://www.modulargrid.net/p/joyo-delayanalog

Here is a sound with two “self modulated” oscillators. A self modulated A-110. A self modulated Bermuda through filter with some res. Just some random, but it sounds much more “electronic” and mean than standard wave forms.
https://freesound.org/people/gis_sweden/sounds/447768/

The grass is always greener on the other side…? The analog/digital/Serge/Buchla/5U side.

It's all about human nature. In most cases (unless you are under lab conditions) people are comparing not the sound of a circuit, but of a patch. You can patch a Eurorack to sound like a Serge (whatever that actually means) or patch a Serge to sound Eurorack. I would add that people should rather say "this sounds like MY Eurorack" or "This sounds like MY Serge" because (nature of the beast) every modular is different, reflects the choice/taste of the owner, so no modular rig will sound like the next, because of choice of modules, and even with identical modules, how you patch them.

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Post by gis_sweden » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:05 am

Drakhe wrote:You can patch a Eurorack to sound like a Serge (whatever that actually means)
:tu:
There is a "modular bingo card" thread.
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=209244

To that tread I want to add
"I sold all my Euro to get a Serge"

Okay. Why? Sound? Aesthetics? DIY?
Modular Synth Psychology
:razz:

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Post by Mark II » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:30 am

cptnal wrote:Disagree - nothing sounds better than my Eurorack. :party:

But the human brain is very good at convincing us things are true despite all evidence to the contrary. That doesn't mean that some of us are feeble-minded and prone to delusion - it happens to everyone.
Exactly! Thats why clocks sound like ‘tic-toc’ and not ‘tic-tic’ (or ‘moooh’, but that’s a brain defect)
The thing is to put a motor in yourself - fz

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Post by gis_sweden » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:16 pm

Mark II wrote:
cptnal wrote:Disagree - nothing sounds better than my Eurorack. :party:

But the human brain is very good at convincing us things are true despite all evidence to the contrary. That doesn't mean that some of us are feeble-minded and prone to delusion - it happens to everyone.
Exactly! Thats why clocks sound like ‘tic-toc’ and not ‘tic-tic’ (or ‘moooh’, but that’s a brain defect)
I'm talking to my brain right now :zombie:

Modular diary 2018-11-13.
Struggled with an idea I had. I wanted random chords. Outcome. Just boring.
Involved many patch cables. Mixed the sound with radio noise and "A creek in a forest"
:lol:
https://freesound.org/s/447830/

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Post by natureclubcassettes » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:23 pm

I still love my eurorack oscillators. The Shapeshifter is unlike anything else, and my DPO is still really great. I guess it's just a personal preference right now; larger formats have been encouraging more tactile performances for me.

That said, Serge definitely has a particular sound. If it didn't, we wouldn't have the super popular R*S versions in eurorack.

Didn't mean to disparage the eurorack format, though! also lol at the bingo card.

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Post by Sleipnir » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:26 am

cptnal wrote:Disagree - nothing sounds better than my Eurorack. :party:

But the human brain is very good at convincing us things are true despite all evidence to the contrary. That doesn't mean that some of us are feeble-minded and prone to delusion - it happens to everyone.
^^This
If you have both in the same studio and one is sounding better with the same patch, don’t look at the VCOs, look at the VCAs/mixers. IMO it’s in the (mild) distortion/compression.
Also, lots of euro runs on power that would be considered dodgy in 4u.

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Post by Mark II » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:50 pm

Another go at the Krell, from a different angle. Using random ADSR and pitch, keeping attack variation really small, and adding kick’n’hats for a jazzy vibe.

https://soundcloud.com/markvangaalen/room-306b
The thing is to put a motor in yourself - fz

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Post by mritenburg » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:40 pm

This is a wonderful thread. I've enjoyed browsing all of the patches.

One thing I am curious about, Is there any general consensus about what constitutes the baseline Krell composition against which others are compared? Is there a particular scene from Forbidden Planet that everyone uses as their reference track for Krell music? I ask because there are 22 possible compositions to use as the baseline and they are all quite different.

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Post by cptnal » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:59 am

mritenburg wrote:This is a wonderful thread. I've enjoyed browsing all of the patches.

One thing I am curious about, Is there any general consensus about what constitutes the baseline Krell composition against which others are compared? Is there a particular scene from Forbidden Planet that everyone uses as their reference track for Krell music? I ask because there are 22 possible compositions to use as the baseline and they are all quite different.
Here's Todd Barton's demonstration of his original Krell:



It's appeared elsewhere, but bears repeating. I have it bookmarked because it's so fiddly to find.
Is it finished?
Latest Tune:
Sounds: SoundCloud , Freesound
Racks: Big Case, Top Row, Funboat, Tinicase

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Post by gis_sweden » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:02 pm

Okay, here is a spring-reverb feedback Krell... :hihi:
https://soundcloud.com/sliversounds/spr ... back-krell
Doesn't the old BBcode work anymore? :despair:
No I'm not adding any spaces in [/s]...!!!

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Post by cptnal » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:07 pm

gis_sweden wrote:Okay, here is a spring-reverb feedback Krell... :hihi:

Doesn't the old BBcode work anymore? :despair:
No I'm not adding any spaces in [/s]...!!!
Ta da! :party:

http://soundcloud.com/sliversounds/spri ... back-krell
Is it finished?
Latest Tune:
Sounds: SoundCloud , Freesound
Racks: Big Case, Top Row, Funboat, Tinicase

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Post by gis_sweden » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:28 pm

cptnal wrote:Ta da! :party:
:hmm: thx

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Post by pugix » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:06 pm

cptnal wrote:
mritenburg wrote:This is a wonderful thread. I've enjoyed browsing all of the patches.

One thing I am curious about, Is there any general consensus about what constitutes the baseline Krell composition against which others are compared? Is there a particular scene from Forbidden Planet that everyone uses as their reference track for Krell music? I ask because there are 22 possible compositions to use as the baseline and they are all quite different.
Here's Todd Barton's demonstration of his original Krell:



It's appeared elsewhere, but bears repeating. I have it bookmarked because it's so fiddly to find.
Thanks cptnal. I hadn't seen that video before. Nice demo of building a Krell patch.

But why is this called a Krell patch? What's the connection to Forbidden Planet?
Richard
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