Multiples vs. Stackcables - Opinions?..

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starthief
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Post by starthief » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:39 am

pirxthepilot wrote:I'm curious why you don't like it? I have only started using them a few weeks ago. Most of the time I just mult to 2 outs, so it's perfect for my purposes.
They're really stiff, and the jack in the middle is bulky. They get in the way, and if you use more than a couple of them they collide awkwardly.

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pirxthepilot
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Post by pirxthepilot » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:10 am

starthief wrote:
pirxthepilot wrote:I'm curious why you don't like it? I have only started using them a few weeks ago. Most of the time I just mult to 2 outs, so it's perfect for my purposes.
They're really stiff, and the jack in the middle is bulky. They get in the way, and if you use more than a couple of them they collide awkwardly.
Ah, good point. So far I've only ever used 1-2 of them at a time so I haven't noticed.

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Post by starthief » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:35 am

I actually started with 12 of them as my only cables, because they were cheaper that normal cables. That was a mistake. I had to chain 3-4 of them together just to reach between my skiff and my MicroBrute which was providing CV/gate.

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geremyf
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Post by geremyf » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:56 am

Stackables + buffered mults. I'd never waste HP on passive mults. I've spent about $100 on stackables and no regrets. I don't use them everywhere, just when I need them. I did have a red one go bad, but I think it was my stretching it more than a poor build.

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dashwood
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Post by dashwood » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:11 pm

A couple of mult modules around the rack (at least 1 buffered) makes patching easier and clearer - but nice to have a few stackables about too.

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Post by damase » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:14 pm

IJ hub is nice
i like stackcables but its frustrating when they start to break

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mildheadwound
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Post by mildheadwound » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:46 pm

Two things; stackables for dc, not ac, unless for cv tracking, (which is buffered inly). Mults rule, (purely for number of gates), for logic and gates.

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Post by sinistar » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:26 pm

I have both, and I've had far better results with buffered mults in terms of not getting undesirable/unexpected load and level-drop issues.
Yes, a few more HP vs none, but I find the mults work best in most cases.

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Post by starthief » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:46 pm

I find that using the pitch CV from my CV.OCD, I don't need buffered mults. Tides, Warps, and Rings will all track together and stay on pitch perfectly over 7 or 8 octaves with a Stackable.

If I split the MicroBrute pitch CV out instead, it only seems close enough over a couple of octaves. But I usually only use that CV if I'm going to FM something with the MicroBrute, so I don't do that :D

For my other modules it doesn't matter. My Three Sisters won't track more than about 3 octaves without getting off by a little no matter what (even after an attempt at calibration), and Ataraxic Translatron has pitch quantization error inherent in its design (small enough within in a useable range, but noticeable in unison or FM) and a sort of lag to its pitch tracking.

The only other things I've notice about not using buffered mults:

-- the MicroBrute gate doesn't like to be split twice, and sometimes not even once, but then it's weird anyway

-- passive multing the same gate to both DPLPG CVs will lower the volume and punch of each a little, but I almost always attenuate either the CV or output before going to my audio interface anyway.

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Post by Zymos » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:03 pm

With non-buffered connectors (IV cables, Ninja stars) I can notice voltage loss even when going from an LFO to more than one modulation input. Often what I'm plugging into has an attenuator on it and I'm not feeding it the max anyway, so it's easy to adjust for, but the loss of voltage IS audible.

I have the Synthrotek buffered mult, and it has 4 ins and 14 outputs that can be combined in various ways, so I usually use it for most things when possible and save the Ninja stars for just distributing clocks and triggers.

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Post by tuj » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:59 am

I use both. + the Intelijel hubs (is he ever going to make more of those?)

The stackables are little bit iffy when it comes to the jack sometimes and the cables wear out faster. But they work well generally.

The hubs are great for long runs and give you a 3-way flying mult.

I recently got some 'tap' cables from Ethervar I will be trying out in various lengths; they have a single tap in the middle for an extra jack.

I quit using passive mults, but I do have 2 buffered mults for clocks mainly in my system, the XV and an Intelijel 2hp. I also use 2x shortbus for gate/trigger combining.

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Post by GeorgeJ » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:48 pm

Looking for a buffered multiple to send pitch from my microbrute into my Mother 32, Atlantis, and Pittsburgh Oscillator. Had my eyes on Doepfer A-180-3 and Ladik U-020. The Ladik page says there is a tuning error 0.15 cent max. From what I have read, I believe the possibility of tuning error is common. Does anyone have experience with either of these modules? Is one of these modules better than the other? Any other suggestions is truly appreciate. Thanks!

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justin3am
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Post by justin3am » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:25 pm

I don't like using HP space on multiples. I have a bunch of stackables, some monomults from Black Market Audio and some deeper mults that just hang out of my case. Luckily, I've never had a stackable fail (some more than 5 years old now), as I prefer to use those.

I don't care much about voltage loss or tuning issues. I do occasionally make tonal music but I usually tune by ear, so precision is not a huge concern.

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Post by GGW » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:01 pm

I have used many of them. For one split, I like stackables; for more than one, an Intellijel hub; and I also have a 2hp Intellijel buffered multi module. I agree that the Ethenvar ones are stiff. When they get in the tangle of cables, I am concerned about the amount of pressure they are putting on those tiny jacks. One of my favourites has not been mentioned yet; splitter cables. I got a couple of these from Analog Solutions a while back and use them a lot for one split:

http://analoguesolutions.com/accesories/

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Post by flashheart » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:04 pm

mildheadwound wrote:Two things; stackables for dc, not ac, unless for cv tracking, (which is buffered inly). Mults rule, (purely for number of gates), for logic and gates.
:despair:
Unless you're talking about buffered vs non buffered there's no electrical difference between a stackable and a passive mult. As for AC vs DC???
I'm not buying a maths though, not my idea of fun...

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Post by Jumbuktu » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:28 pm

justin3am wrote:
I don't care much about voltage loss or tuning issues. I do occasionally make tonal music but I usually tune by ear, so precision is not a huge concern.
Ummm ... I would have thought tuning by ear would make precision even more of a concern? My ear can detect pitch differences that would barely show up on a voltmeter. It's something that at times makes me wonder whether CV control is technically a sensible idea at all.

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Post by wsy » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:12 am

Jumbuktu wrote:
justin3am wrote:
I don't care much about voltage loss or tuning issues. I do occasionally make tonal music but I usually tune by ear, so precision is not a huge concern.
Ummm ... I would have thought tuning by ear would make precision even more of a concern? My ear can detect pitch differences that would barely show up on a voltmeter. It's something that at times makes me wonder whether CV control is technically a sensible idea at all.
Everything in engineering (including 1 V per octave) is a compromise.

But - it's not a _horrible_ compromise.

What you're seeing is the difference in cost between a $10 3-sorta digit voltmeter pumped out by some factory in Shenjhen,
versus a $300 4 1/2 digit voltmeter made in Germany, Holland, or the US.

And then there's the whole 1.000 volt / octave (Moog and everyone else) versus the 1.2000 volt/octave (Buchla). The Buchla
standard actually makes more sense; 1.2 volts/octave means each note is 0.1 volts exactly, and each cent is 1 millivolt, exactly.
Very close, but not the same.

Now, holding 1 millivolt precision is no problem for most circuits after a once-during-assembly trimming.

So no, it's not horrible. It's just a compromise choice that makes the most sense.

- Bill
"Life is short. But we can always buy longer patch cords" - Savage

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justin3am
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Post by justin3am » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:46 pm

Jumbuktu wrote:
justin3am wrote:
I don't care much about voltage loss or tuning issues. I do occasionally make tonal music but I usually tune by ear, so precision is not a huge concern.
Ummm ... I would have thought tuning by ear would make precision even more of a concern? My ear can detect pitch differences that would barely show up on a voltmeter. It's something that at times makes me wonder whether CV control is technically a sensible idea at all.
I'm not that discerning. I rarely tune my oscillators anyway, even when I do work on tonal music. Sometimes I'll whack an oscillator out of tune or put an attenuator in front of the 1v/oct input to change the scaling; just because I don't always like the way things sound when perfectly in tune.

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Post by 2k4s » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:02 pm

The ones with like 5 or 6 mults that are meant for splitting iPod headphone outputs are too heavy and put too much strain on your jacks if you have an upright rack. The little 1x2 ones are find. I only have 2 mult modules in my rack so I tend to need to use these http://erthenvar.myshopify.com/collecti ... lack-magic and these https://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-Go-St ... e+splitter

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Post by Futuresound » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:24 pm

Zymos wrote:Ninja stars
:hihi:

Haha, awesome name for them.

I use some of blackmarket mono-mults and they're pretty handy, but I too can detect clearly-audible voltage loss going to more than a couple of destinations.

I like mult modules too - they stay out of the way and the buffered ones are er... buffered. But for some reason they're never where I want them in a patch, I always have to use my longest cables to get there and back. I guess I could just put them all in the very center of the rack.

I recently started using banana stackable with my Sidrax, and as a result will be picking up some stackables for the modular soon.

In other words.... they're all useful at the right time.

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Post by pmarchitect » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:57 pm

Multiples because they're buffered. /end

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Post by flashheart » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:27 pm

pmarchitect wrote:Multiples because they're buffered. /end
/follow
Passive multiples aren't :)
I'm not buying a maths though, not my idea of fun...

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Post by pmarchitect » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:34 pm

flashheart wrote:
pmarchitect wrote:Multiples because they're buffered. /end
/follow
Passive multiples aren't :)
Buy buffered /end :razz:

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Post by Yodhan » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:04 pm

I have been using mults, and while I like them, I want to try those small junction boxes because it might make it easier to see what is going on. Between poor lighting in my office and a few Pico modules, things get pretty compacted and hard to trace in my rig sometimes.

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Post by starthief » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:54 pm

I'm planning to expand from 84HP to another 84 or 104 (not sure yet). Not adding new voices, so much as more processing and modulation and control.

That second row is getting some passive attenuators, because I've decided I really don't like floating inline ones that much. But still no mults (buffered or unbuffered).

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