Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

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Mabuse
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by Mabuse » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:03 pm

i got some basic questions about the riot:

is it possible to set the 8 channels to different lengths?
is there a way to tap-in off-grid (non quantized) steps?
and how many steps can be taped in per channel?
when loading/changing a preset: is there a way to see one of the 16 knob values (without moving the knob and hence change the values)?
is there a way to store more than 16 presets on the riot? via usb or anything a like?

continuum
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by continuum » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:35 pm

Mabuse wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:03 pm
i got some basic questions about the riot:

is it possible to set the 8 channels to different lengths?
You mean with CYCE? No, but the whole point of the Cycle End is to constrain the patterns. Set it to 0 and all of them are whatever length the dividers multiply out to the LCM (ex: 3 8 11 17 = 4488, 4 7 19 - 532, etc).
is there a way to tap-in off-grid (non quantized) steps?
All devices quantize at some level. The Riot quantizes the manual taps to 16ths.
and how many steps can be taped in per channel?


4 steps per output. Also, note that CYCE needs to be turned on to hear them more than once.
when loading/changing a preset: is there a way to see one of the 16 knob values (without moving the knob and hence change the values)?
No, there was a vote earlier here to have holding the Mode button to change the Mode or preview the value. Changing the Mode seemed to be the favorite and will be in the next firmware release soon.
is there a way to store more than 16 presets on the riot? via usb or anything a like?
Not at the moment. There have been very, very few requests to go past 16 presets - you may actually be the first in 7 years. There might be room to store more on the EEPROM but would require adding banks to the UI somehow.
Tiptop Audio R&D
www.tiptopaudio.com/

Mabuse
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by Mabuse » Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:29 am

thanks for getting back!
continuum wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:35 pm
Mabuse wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:03 pm
i got some basic questions about the riot:
is it possible to set the 8 channels to different lengths?
You mean with CYCE? No, but the whole point of the Cycle End is to constrain the patterns. Set it to 0 and all of them are whatever length the dividers multiply out to the LCM (ex: 3 8 11 17 = 4488, 4 7 19 - 532, etc).

i cant grasp it. could you please elaborate on that?
do you mean 4488 steps length for channel 1 and 532 steps length for channel 2?
because you said "muliplied" - i thought the dividers in a row or collumn getting summed to a corresponding channel, no?
and what does LCM means?
continuum wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:35 pm
Mabuse wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:03 pm
and how many steps can be taped in per channel?

Also, note that CYCE needs to be turned on to hear them more than once.
more than once? you mean for sequences longer than 255 steps?

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ModusOp
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by ModusOp » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:10 am

Not at the moment. There have been very, very few requests to go past 16 presets - you may actually be the first in 7 years. There might be room to store more on the EEPROM but would require adding banks to the UI somehow.
Maybe no one asked because they didn’t think it would get added, but I think it would be pretty awesome.

Perhaps a combination of button presses? Like pushing the Bank 1 plus Bank 2 gets you to Bank 5, Bank 2 plus Bank 3 gets you to Bank 6, 3 plus 4 gets you to Bank 7, 1 plus 3 gets you to Bank 8, 2 plus 4 equals Bank 9, 1 plus 4 is Bank 10. That would be 40 presets per Matrix/Independent Mode. If you did the same for Presets, that would be 80 total per Mode. :party:

Edit: Actually that would be 10 Banks of 10 Presets, giving you 100 for both Matrix and Independent Modes.
Last edited by ModusOp on Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

continuum
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by continuum » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:20 am

Mabuse wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:29 am

i cant grasp it. could you please elaborate on that?
do you mean 4488 steps length for channel 1 and 532 steps length for channel 2?
because you said "muliplied" - i thought the dividers in a row or collumn getting summed to a corresponding channel, no?
and what does LCM means?
LCM = Least Common Multiple. In the Riot this is how long before the pattern repeats.

more than once? you mean for sequences longer than 255 steps?
CYCE is limited to 255 'steps'.
Tiptop Audio R&D
www.tiptopaudio.com/

Mabuse
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by Mabuse » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:27 pm

continuum wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:20 am
Mabuse wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:29 am

i cant grasp it. could you please elaborate on that?
do you mean 4488 steps length for channel 1 and 532 steps length for channel 2?
because you said "muliplied" - i thought the dividers in a row or collumn getting summed to a corresponding channel, no?
and what does LCM means?
LCM = Least Common Multiple. In the Riot this is how long before the pattern repeats.
thanks but i still dont get it. could you please be more specific about it.
in your example, did you meant the first channel to have a 4488 step length and the second 532 steps length?

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a773
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by a773 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:49 pm

I’m no expert but I have two observations

1) if you have two rhythms with a common pulse, one banging ever 4 pulse the other banging every 5 beats they will meet (or repeat) every 20 pulses. 3x8x11x17=4488. So one channel has div set to 3 next to 8 etc, they will repeat every 4488 ticks...

2) however some rhythms might repeat earlier, say you have two rhythms, one is every 2 pulse, the other is every 4 pulse, applying the above math would suggest they repeat after 2x4=8 pulses, however they repeat after 4...

Not sure that was helpful...

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johannes
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by johannes » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:20 pm

ModusOp wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:10 am
Not at the moment. There have been very, very few requests to go past 16 presets - you may actually be the first in 7 years. There might be room to store more on the EEPROM but would require adding banks to the UI somehow.
Maybe no one asked because they didn’t think it would get added, but I think it would be pretty awesome.

Perhaps a combination of button presses? Like pushing the Bank 1 plus Bank 2 gets you to Bank 5, Bank 2 plus Bank 3 gets you to Bank 6, 3 plus 4 gets you to Bank 7, 1 plus 3 gets you to Bank 8, 2 plus 4 equals Bank 9, 1 plus 4 is Bank 10. That would be 40 presets per Matrix/Independent Mode. If you did the same for Presets, that would be 80 total per Mode. :party:

Edit: Actually that would be 10 Banks of 10 Presets, giving you 100 for both Matrix and Independent Modes.
i agree! having more than 16 presets would be nice, especially when using preset looping as a feature/tool for composition.
that way you could have lets say 10 main presets (for 10 pieces) where you cycle throu 4 (sub) presets respectively. :tu:

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ModusOp
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by ModusOp » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:17 pm

johannes wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:20 pm
ModusOp wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:10 am
Not at the moment. There have been very, very few requests to go past 16 presets - you may actually be the first in 7 years. There might be room to store more on the EEPROM but would require adding banks to the UI somehow.
Maybe no one asked because they didn’t think it would get added, but I think it would be pretty awesome.

Perhaps a combination of button presses? Like pushing the Bank 1 plus Bank 2 gets you to Bank 5, Bank 2 plus Bank 3 gets you to Bank 6, 3 plus 4 gets you to Bank 7, 1 plus 3 gets you to Bank 8, 2 plus 4 equals Bank 9, 1 plus 4 is Bank 10. That would be 40 presets per Matrix/Independent Mode. If you did the same for Presets, that would be 80 total per Mode. :party:

Edit: Actually that would be 10 Banks of 10 Presets, giving you 100 for both Matrix and Independent Modes.
i agree! having more than 16 presets would be nice, especially when using preset looping as a feature/tool for composition.
that way you could have lets say 10 main presets (for 10 pieces) where you cycle throu 4 (sub) presets respectively. :tu:
Totally!

And yeah, the button combos would be a little tricky to remember at first, but no more so than other modules that have combo presses, like the Morphagene. Plus, if you don’t want to remember them, you can just use the 4 Banks and 4 Presets as it is now. :)

continuum
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by continuum » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:06 am

Attached is the next release of the Riot firmware - 1r7b

- Hold the Mode button and use the Tempo encoder to select the parameter editing mode.
- Fixes for BeatSync and external resets
- Tap step in Matrix mode improvements
Attachments
riot_1r07b.zip
(46.44 KiB) Downloaded 20 times
Tiptop Audio R&D
www.tiptopaudio.com/

continuum
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by continuum » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:09 am

There is room to extend the number of presets but it will be a pretty involved code change that also requires a reset to the EEPROM. This was last done for 1r04 and it did cause a number of problems for people. It's on the list for a future update but it will likely be quite some time before it happens if at all.
Tiptop Audio R&D
www.tiptopaudio.com/

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maltemark
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by maltemark » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:38 pm

Amazing to have updates coming. Very happy with the module partly because of this
Feel free to use my old samplepacks: https://freesound.org/people/altemark/
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by ModusOp » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:55 pm

continuum wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:09 am
There is room to extend the number of presets but it will be a pretty involved code change that also requires a reset to the EEPROM. This was last done for 1r04 and it did cause a number of problems for people. It's on the list for a future update but it will likely be quite some time before it happens if at all.
Awesome!

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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by m-m » Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:53 pm

Fantastic, I gotta try it out now :tu:
continuum wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:06 am
Attached is the next release of the Riot firmware - 1r7b

- Hold the Mode button and use the Tempo encoder to select the parameter editing mode.
- Fixes for BeatSync and external resets
- Tap step in Matrix mode improvements

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Thedoge
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by Thedoge » Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:51 am

hi, is there a log with the past updates of the firmware? mine is 1r06 I would like to check what I'm missing since then

continuum
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by continuum » Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:23 am

Thedoge wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:51 am
hi, is there a log with the past updates of the firmware? mine is 1r06 I would like to check what I'm missing since then
The one posted above is the next update from 1r06.
Tiptop Audio R&D
www.tiptopaudio.com/

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Thedoge
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by Thedoge » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:55 am

continuum wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:23 am
Thedoge wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:51 am
hi, is there a log with the past updates of the firmware? mine is 1r06 I would like to check what I'm missing since then
The one posted above is the next update from 1r06.
oh perfect, nice then

thank you!

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johannes
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by johannes » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:23 am

for the upcomming new panel version/redesign of the riot it would be very nice to have individual mode buttons instead of one button to switch the modes. from testing the riot, it feels like the whole workflow gets interrupted by pressing the mode button so often - if you accidentally press once to often than you have to press the mode button 6 more times.

Transistor
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by Transistor » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:15 am

+1 that would be an appreciated improvement

continuum
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by continuum » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:31 am

johannes wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:23 am
for the upcomming new panel version/redesign of the riot it would be very nice to have individual mode buttons instead of one button to switch the modes. from testing the riot, it feels like the whole workflow gets interrupted by pressing the mode button so often - if you accidentally press once to often than you have to press the mode button 6 more times.
The latest firmware allows changing the Mode using the Tempo encoder so you can go back one Mode easily.
Tiptop Audio R&D
www.tiptopaudio.com/

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johannes
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by johannes » Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:11 pm

ok thanks, i will try to update the fw. but i guess having 7 buttons instead would be much more straight forward.

a question to more experienced riot users:
i have a friends riot here for some days now and i already managed to do some interesting rhythms.
but its rather experimenting and happy accidents than per purpose created sequences. wich of course is great -
but i have the feeling that i didnt fully get the working of the divisions and how they affect the sequences.
how do you set up your sequences on the riot? is there a general thing that you start with?
any recommendations are pretty much appreciated.
ps. yes, iam about to read the manual.

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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by theotteryears » Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:00 am

Start with something simple first... what I do always is:

- Set the CYCE and CYCS to the time signature of the piece but only one bar of this (eg. if you are working in 4/4 I set CYCE to 20 and CYCS to 4. this gives me 16th notes for one bar (this can be extended out later on once you understand what is happening with your divisions eg. you now want 4 bars so you leave CYCS at 4 but change CYCE to 68)).
- I then use one of the channels and set a STEP on 4 (this gives me the first beat of the bar which is played every time.
- The reason you change the CYCS to 4 is that the TR uses mathematical division so I find starting at CYCS = 4 is much easier to understand!
- Pick another channel and set it to a division of your choosing, eg. 3
- Listen to what is happening so you can understand (still just one bar looping)
- Then mess with the probability of this division occurring
- Then bring in another division on the same channel e.g. division = 7
- Listen to the interplay
- Bring in yet another division, and set speed to 32nd notes, 100% probability
- Listen to where they are occurring, then use the pulse width on the other channels to mess with when the 32nd notes appear
- That should give you a quick way to understand how the TR works

It's easy to get lost in the rhythms easily so I find that setting a simple one bar preset good to get your head round it. Obviously you only need to do this a few times until you understand how everything combines into so great complex rhythms :)

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johannes
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by johannes » Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:20 pm

thanks, good hint to start simple (16 steps seq) and setting up a step at 1. that definitely helps to see how all the parameter-settings changes the sequence. have to do my homework now... :tu:

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johannes
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by johannes » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:20 am

continuum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:31 am
The latest firmware allows changing the Mode using the Tempo encoder so you can go back one Mode easily.
i updated the latest firmware. switching the mode by holding the mode button and dialing the tempo encoder doesnt works reliable on my unit:

-when dialing the tempo encoder (while press and hold the mode button firmly), the riot often exits "mode-switch" and changes the tempo instead
-when going backwards through the modes it always freezes at pw-mode all ccw encoder actions are ignored.

anyone else experienced the same? workarrounds?

continuum
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by continuum » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:53 pm

johannes wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:20 am
continuum wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:31 am
The latest firmware allows changing the Mode using the Tempo encoder so you can go back one Mode easily.
i updated the latest firmware. switching the mode by holding the mode button and dialing the tempo encoder doesnt works reliable on my unit:

-when dialing the tempo encoder (while press and hold the mode button firmly), the riot often exits "mode-switch" and changes the tempo instead
-when going backwards through the modes it always freezes at pw-mode all ccw encoder actions are ignored.

anyone else experienced the same? workarrounds?
That's odd - does the display show 'MOdE' when you hold the button? Maybe I uploaded an old build by mistake but I don't think so...

edit: That is an old version above, sorry! This one is now 1r07c and it should say 'MOdE' when holding the button and also scroll properly.
Attachments
riot_1r07c.zip
(46.5 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
Tiptop Audio R&D
www.tiptopaudio.com/

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