Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

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continuum
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by continuum » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:26 am

tuj wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:45 am
ok I updated firmware and I love the latching. Been on the old firmware for a long time.

Question: How do you set the probability to less than increments of 5?
That was done a couple of updates ago and was one of the most requested changes over the years. To be honest the pseudo random number generator probably isn't good enough for increments less than that anyway. Setting to 35% would be the same as 33%, for example.
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continuum
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by continuum » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:27 am

flipper16 wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:37 am
@ continuum

Why no coloured jack covers on the new TR and drum modules?
Different type of jacks just like the drum modules.
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by flipper16 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:16 pm

continuum wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:27 am
flipper16 wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:37 am
@ continuum

Why no coloured jack covers on the new TR and drum modules?
Different type of jacks just like the drum modules.
Ok, you've changed the panels so that the modules all match then changed the jacks so that they don't... :doh: :despair:

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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by donrock » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:55 pm

Will it be possible to buy just the panels, jacks and knobs separately?

I got my Riot a few years ago second hand and the previous owner must have dropped it at some point so one corner of the faceplate is nicked (the module works just fine). Since there are new faceplates out, I wouldn’t mind switching it.

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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by tuj » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:39 pm

continuum wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:26 am
That was done a couple of updates ago and was one of the most requested changes over the years. To be honest the pseudo random number generator probably isn't good enough for increments less than that anyway. Setting to 35% would be the same as 33%, for example.
Are you saying the range was quantized to only 20 steps/increments despite having a 100-step range?

Or are you saying there was some quantization, but perhaps more ranges than 20? I feel like my 5% stuff is too high compared to what used to be 2%. Am I crazy?

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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by a773 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:04 am

donrock wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:55 pm
Will it be possible to buy just the panels, jacks and knobs separately?
The new faceplate won’t fit old riots due to change in physical layout (although looking at the new version and comparing to the old one, I can’t spot the difference)...

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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by donrock » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:59 am

a773 wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:04 am
donrock wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:55 pm
Will it be possible to buy just the panels, jacks and knobs separately?
The new faceplate won’t fit old riots due to change in physical layout (although looking at the new version and comparing to the old one, I can’t spot the difference)...
I suppose so, I overlayed the two panel images over one another in PS and it seems the new version has just slightly smaller mute buttons.. Everything else seems to be in the same place. Weird decision to make a new panel, and not have it fit the old modules - unless there are also changes under the hood.

continuum
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by continuum » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:04 am

tuj wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:39 pm
continuum wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:26 am
That was done a couple of updates ago and was one of the most requested changes over the years. To be honest the pseudo random number generator probably isn't good enough for increments less than that anyway. Setting to 35% would be the same as 33%, for example.
Are you saying the range was quantized to only 20 steps/increments despite having a 100-step range?

Or are you saying there was some quantization, but perhaps more ranges than 20? I feel like my 5% stuff is too high compared to what used to be 2%. Am I crazy?
Because it is pseudo-random and not something like thermal noise the output is a pattern that can be mapped over time and that pattern is likely to be so close for both 33% and 35% that it would take a long time to see the difference.

Also, this is the first complaint about the 5% increment in the over four years the firmware has been out, so it will remain at 5%.
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johannes
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by johannes » Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:17 pm

yeah 5 % is fine for me too…

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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by a773 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:04 pm

5% FTW

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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by tuj » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:09 pm

wow I'm surprised. There is definitely a difference between 1, 2, and 5 from what I could tell. I guess I could record like 50 minutes and mathematically prove it but that point seems to be moot. A little disappointed. I love the latching but the probability is a step backwards IMHO. You could have made maybe a hold-and-press for fine-tuning. I get the want to set larger probability increments faster.

That said, I do not believe, based on my ears, that 1% is mathematically equivalent to 5% between the two firmwares. I get the RNG is not thermal or other "perfect" source, so it probably always has the same seed? Doesn't matter regarding probability, depending on how you 'quantize' the internal RNG result to a probability.

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100000bps
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by 100000bps » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:21 pm

Got the new TR with black panel - where have you been for all this time. Superb module. Can we please vote for MK2 to happen ?
From the UX/UI designer perspective -
1. top menu - clickable led buttons so you can swap to where you want to be instead of clicking 6 times.
2. Clickable LED encoders - for muting, setting values and visualising presets/pages
3. CV addressable probability - 4-8 cv inputs. (or just 8 freely assignable cv inputs), might be an expander.
4. 2 more clock inputs and 2 additional outputs of snake patterns similar to z8000. Or by CV address (Mimetic style).
5. Encoders speed up the more you rotate them - setting 0-360 values on time shift is tedious same for higher number of pulses.

pweetty please <3 with the cherry on top.

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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by far gon » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:15 am

I strongly advocate for bringing back the percentages less than 5% probability!
I'm still on the older firmware and would love to upgrade to the new one, but I find the smaller percentages indispensable.
Easiest example I can give is using a /1 with 1% probability for adding very occasional gates or triggers. At this setting, 5% would be 5 times more likely to occur. This is very perceptible in my opinion.
The example of 33% and 35% being not that much different is valid, as 35% is only 1.094 times more likely to occur than 33%.
It would only add only a four encoder clicks to have the 1% through 4% ranges in the probability menu. This to me is such a small trade off to still have those values. Please consider adding them back!

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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by tuj » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:36 am

far gon wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:15 am
I strongly advocate for bringing back the percentages less than 5% probability!
I'm still on the older firmware and would love to upgrade to the new one, but I find the smaller percentages indispensable.
Easiest example I can give is using a /1 with 1% probability for adding very occasional gates or triggers. At this setting, 5% would be 5 times more likely to occur. This is very perceptible in my opinion.
The example of 33% and 35% being not that much different is valid, as 35% is only 1.094 times more likely to occur than 33%.
It would only add only a four encoder clicks to have the 1% through 4% ranges in the probability menu. This to me is such a small trade off to still have those values. Please consider adding them back!
Totally agree. I love the latching, but I'm seriously thinking about going back to the old firmware because I can't program the same rhythms on the new firmware.

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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by maltemark » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:14 pm

far gon wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:15 am
I strongly advocate for bringing back the percentages less than 5% probability!
I'm still on the older firmware and would love to upgrade to the new one, but I find the smaller percentages indispensable.
Easiest example I can give is using a /1 with 1% probability for adding very occasional gates or triggers. At this setting, 5% would be 5 times more likely to occur. This is very perceptible in my opinion.
The example of 33% and 35% being not that much different is valid, as 35% is only 1.094 times more likely to occur than 33%.
It would only add only a four encoder clicks to have the 1% through 4% ranges in the probability menu. This to me is such a small trade off to still have those values. Please consider adding them back!
Sounds like a good tradeoff tbh
Feel free to use my old samplepacks: https://freesound.org/people/altemark/
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by seychmar » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:02 am

I have been trying to update the firmware on my TR. I have followed the instructions on the website but the module gets stuck with the clock shift led flashing endlessly. I have tried two different usb sticks with the same result. Any ideas?

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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by continuum » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:18 pm

seychmar wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:02 am
I have been trying to update the firmware on my TR. I have followed the instructions on the website but the module gets stuck with the clock shift led flashing endlessly. I have tried two different usb sticks with the same result. Any ideas?
The USB sticks cannot be USB 3 only USB 2.0. Also, make sure they are formatted a MSDOS FAT32 and Master Boot Record (important if you are formatting on a Mac). Finally, make sure the file is unzipped on the USB drive - this is a common mistake - the file should be image.hex.
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by seychmar » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:19 pm

Thanks! One of my usb sticks eventually worked.

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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by tuj » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:09 am

I guess it's my fault for not saying current with the firmware, but I've had a TR forever, just got a second one. I have probably everything TTA makes or more than one of them. Gur: I support you guys, I hope you know that.

The probability thing is a big deal for me. I would be very happy with values 1, 2, 3, 4 added back, then 5, 10, ..etc.. I know you say the random number generator may not be accurate enough. I guess I can try to do a study on this to see if what you are saying is true, but I'm pretty sure from my ears that 5% is a lot different than 1 or 2% probability. The TR upgrade, aside from the latching outputs in independent matrix mode, is really a downgrade from the 1.0 version firmware if you can't use small probability values. Those are really crucial to getting great results out of the TR.

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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by continuum » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:37 am

tuj wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:09 am
I guess it's my fault for not saying current with the firmware, but I've had a TR forever, just got a second one. I have probably everything TTA makes or more than one of them. Gur: I support you guys, I hope you know that.

The probability thing is a big deal for me. I would be very happy with values 1, 2, 3, 4 added back, then 5, 10, ..etc.. I know you say the random number generator may not be accurate enough. I guess I can try to do a study on this to see if what you are saying is true, but I'm pretty sure from my ears that 5% is a lot different than 1 or 2% probability. The TR upgrade, aside from the latching outputs in independent matrix mode, is really a downgrade from the 1.0 version firmware if you can't use small probability values. Those are really crucial to getting great results out of the TR.
You are right that 1% will be measurably different than 5% so I can look into adding a few low values. It will be a while before I get back to the Riot though. You can find probably find the old 1r05 versions scrolling back 5 years or so in this thread.
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by Thedoge » Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:45 pm

I've just updated the firmware to the newest version and I'm not sure if it's a bug but since I've updated I need to tap two times mode button when I'm on pulse width to step up again to divide, is this a correct behaviour?

continuum
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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by continuum » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:47 pm

Thedoge wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:45 pm
I've just updated the firmware to the newest version and I'm not sure if it's a bug but since I've updated I need to tap two times mode button when I'm on pulse width to step up again to divide, is this a correct behaviour?
Seems like that is a bug, and I will put it on the list for the next firmware release.
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www.tiptopaudio.com/

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Re: Tiptop Audio - Trigger Riot

Post by Thedoge » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:54 pm

continuum wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:47 pm
Thedoge wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:45 pm
I've just updated the firmware to the newest version and I'm not sure if it's a bug but since I've updated I need to tap two times mode button when I'm on pulse width to step up again to divide, is this a correct behaviour?
Seems like that is a bug, and I will put it on the list for the next firmware release.
Thank you for your prompt reply :)

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Trigger Riot skips when using external reset

Post by efluon » Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:48 am

Tried to find the answer with the search function, but did not:

I find it very difficult to sync to an external signal with reset.

What I do is that I send MIDI-events at 16th notes (32th events). These get received by my befaco midi thing. Then I send an identical note on the start of the first of four bars on a different channel. This gets interpreted differently on the midi thing (basically i hacked the FW on midi thing to use events on channel 16 instead of clock), so it might have very slightly (us) different timing.

Behaviour was the same though when using a spink0:

what happens is that clock sync works nicely.
but if reset is connected i get regular jumps.

i tried shifting the reset (e.g. to second 32th), and sending reset on every bar, etc.., and sometimes (not reproducibly deterministic) this worked stably. more often though, beats gets skipped. I set cycs to 64 normally, but got better results more often with cycs = 4

---

so, my theory is that reset and clock need to happen in a defined order. like e.g. reset-gate needs to be active when the next clock comes -- or the other way round? I am willing to change my midi-signals / firmware to accomodate this, but i need to know the relation. Does someone know? Or is my unit faulty?

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Re: Trigger Riot skips when using external reset

Post by continuum » Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:02 am

efluon wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:48 am

so, my theory is that reset and clock need to happen in a defined order. like e.g. reset-gate needs to be active when the next clock comes -- or the other way round? I am willing to change my midi-signals / firmware to accomodate this, but i need to know the relation. Does someone know? Or is my unit faulty?
Reset needs to be synced with the Clock signal to work best. Set the Reset pin then set the Clock pin. It's just like the SPI CS pin - set the CS pin and then start the clock. This is the standard (and really only) method for digital protocol communications that works.
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www.tiptopaudio.com/

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