Serge TKB Kit!

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Synesthesia
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Post by Synesthesia » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:10 pm

got the 2 last kits ;) i've been told ( not by Zthee - but someone else ) that they will be more.

harolddonnelly
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Post by harolddonnelly » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:11 pm

Any idea when there would be a re run of the kits?

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Post by Synesthesia » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:53 am

on the site : Preliminary back in stock: Unknown

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tobb
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Post by tobb » Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:26 am

Can 2N3904 transistors be used as an alternative for the Pn5179?

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malnatim
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Post by malnatim » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:07 am

Vsyevolod wrote:Unless he has redesigned the circuit, he is mistaken in his description. The Pressure output is based on the capacitance offered by the skin of your finger (or whatever else you touch it with...). This is how both SMMS and STS TKB's work. I find it easy to go from very little to full on 5v just by rolling my finger onto the pad. You are correct in thinking that you should get a voltage proportional to the contact surface.

I haven't finished my build yet, so I can't confirm yet how Zthee's version is supposed to work.

KP output is supposed to send a 5v trigger that remains high until you release the key.

Stephen.
has anyone tried a clear lacquer on the capacitive keys? i think i might. for the 216r it seems pretty essential to get a useful pressure output. it also looks nice and improves durability. can anyone with an SMMS or STS TKB please say if these versions are lacquered?

2 acrylic lacquers...

http://www.rapidonline.com/pdf/87-0670t.pdf

http://www.krylon.com/products/crystal-clear-acrylic

maybe the 1st will yellow from uv exposure?

happy new year!

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jpauty
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Post by jpauty » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:02 am

I suppose the lacquer increases insulation and thus decreases the influence of your finger in the touch. Should probably not put too much. We have some spray lacquer like you linked I might be tempter to try it.

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malnatim
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Post by malnatim » Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:19 pm

jpauty wrote:I suppose the lacquer increases insulation and thus decreases the influence of your finger in the touch. Should probably not put too much. We have some spray lacquer like you linked I might be tempter to try it.
which one do you have? i think i'm going to order some of the krylon.

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jpauty
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Post by jpauty » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:41 pm

It's one similar to the krylon. My wife is a painter and she told me she has an old can of spray varnish. It's a french brand, so I'm not sure the name is of any use. Also, IIRC it increases contrast and slightly darken the colors. Maybe that's not so important for our case.

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jpauty
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Post by jpauty » Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:07 pm

Ok, I made a quick test with a piece of paper put on top of the keys and it works as expected ! Pressure sensitivity ! I then tested with a plastic foil for food (the transparent one). This works also. This is really great: :sb: :sb: :sb:

I believe there MUST be insulation on top of the keys for the keyboard to work. I think this creates a capacitor (hence the capacitive touch !). A capacitor is two conducting plates separated by an insulator. I believe, in this case, the capacitor is : touch plate - lacquer (insulator) - finger (slightly conductive). If there is no varnish there is a shortcut between the plate and the finger and thus no capacitor. It's a bit late here today, but I'll definitely put lacquer on mine.

:bananaguitar: :nana:

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malnatim
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Post by malnatim » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:44 pm

jpauty wrote:It's one similar to the krylon. My wife is a painter and she told me she has an old can of spray varnish. It's a french brand, so I'm not sure the name is of any use. Also, IIRC it increases contrast and slightly darken the colors. Maybe that's not so important for our case.
i think you need to be careful not to use a product that leaves any tackiness at all. maybe a polyurethane lacquer could be better suited? playability and finish on my 216r is great. i think it's polyurethane, but i didn't build it.

http://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalo ... ane-spray/

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jpauty
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Post by jpauty » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:29 am

You're right. Finding the correct product seems important. There's this thread: viewtopic.php?t=160422&sid=eb7ad7ae2c86 ... 6defb2c81a . But no precise info.

There are several references that popup with this search: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pcb+lacquer&ie=utf-8 . PCB lacquer seem targeted to protect PCB inside devices. Don't know if it fits for surface are regularly touched.

I think, I'll try to stick a band of transparent film and see how it goes. It can be easily removed, so no real risk.

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malnatim
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Post by malnatim » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:56 am

roman specified polyurethane lacquer for 216r. he built mine, so i assume that's what he used. apparently oil-based polyurethane can yellow, but being oil-based gives it a great finish. the keys on my 216r are glassy. i don't keep it in direct sunlight. the acrylic lacquers are very easy to remove apparently, so it's not really any risk. polyurethane can be removed also. i've ordered this...

it had good reviews and reasonable price. the krylon i linked to above has more reports of tackiness. i'll let you know how it goes. if i doesn't work well, i'll remove and try polyurethane.

btw thanks for the edelweiss bom!

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Post by medbot » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:59 pm

I'm watching this discussion with interest, please follow up with results. Have you guys built yours yet? How are you planning to apply it if you have built it (I'm not keen on redoing all those LED wires)? Cheers!

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malnatim
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Post by malnatim » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:42 pm

i'm mid-build. just the wiring and mounting touch pcb to go. i was going to spray before going any further, but i now think i'll finish everything except sticking down the touch pcb. then, mask the main panel and spray touch pcb. i thought possibly the heat from soldering on the back of the touch pcb could upset the lacquer finish (especially if it's not long since application). if you mask the panel well, spraying when it's all done maybe the best option. unless solvent in lacquer damages the leds. i'll try some tests when the can arrives. maybe tiny blu-tack plugs in the led holes to mask leds?

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Post by jpauty » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:48 pm

Another test: sticky plastic film does not work. It's pity. I was thinking about helicopter tape which is highly resistant and transparent. I thought it would be ideal. I'll receive some for my bike, I'll make a test to be sure it does not work. I suppose the insulation layer must be thin, otherwise there is no capacitor created when you touch the plate.

Mine is built, and I was thinking I'll protect everything before using the spray.

I would test the lacquer on a spare led to see how it reacts.

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medbot
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Post by medbot » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:33 pm

I'm glad there are smarter people than me on here because I wouldn't have thought to worry about the LEDs themselves :hihi: Looking forward to your progress.

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dsf
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Post by dsf » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:52 pm

Is the TKB available again? i can't find it on THC website...

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Post by jpauty » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:30 am

dsf wrote:Is the TKB available again? i can't find it on THC website...
No, but you can ask Zthee if he plans another run.

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Post by henk3 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:58 am

Hi, I'm helping a friend build and order parts for tkb.
Could anybody link to the mouser cart that supposedly is linked to in the confirmation email?
I found the BOM on the thc tkb build page but it doesn't say what size or package i should choose. Would sure be nice to have that mouser cart as a starting point.

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Post by Synesthesia » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:01 am

I just sent it to you in a pm Brother ;)

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Post by rampy » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:55 pm

jpauty wrote:
dsf wrote:Is the TKB available again? i can't find it on THC website...
No, but you can ask Zthee if he plans another run.
I'd love to see another run on these. I wonder if there is enough demand :hmm:

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Post by jpauty » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:41 am

Guys I have good new regarding pressure. While waiting for malnatim feedback I tried to stick thin plastic film on the pads. Like the one you use to cover books. It must be very thin. Something like this

With this film, pressure works as expected. You can easily control it. Visually the film is barely visible. I don't know if it will last for long tough. Varnish should be better with that respect.

:bananaguitar: :bananaguitar:

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Post by synchromesh » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:54 am

Hi Synesthesia, I bought one of the "PCB only" packages and didn't get the full kit contents (or a panel, but fortunately with Serge that isn't the end of the world).

Could I ask you to send me the link to the Mouser cart as well? Cheers! :party:

Edited to make it look less like the PM I meant to send...
Last edited by synchromesh on Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Synesthesia » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:03 am

jpauty wrote:Guys I have good new regarding pressure. While waiting for malnatim feedback I tried to stick thin plastic film on the pads. Like the one you use to cover books. It must be very thin. Something like this

With this film, pressure works as expected. You can easily control it. Visually the film is barely visible. I don't know if it will last for long tough. Varnish should be better with that respect.

:bananaguitar: :bananaguitar:
I've built a 218 - ahd gave a couple of spray clear coat ... it works really well.

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Post by Synesthesia » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:05 am

synchromesh wrote:Synesthesia

Could I ask you to send me the link to the Mouser cart as well? Cheers! :party:
sent ;)

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