Harry Bissell's Fast Response Low Ripple Envelope Follower

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PWM
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Post by PWM » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:26 am

I'll up the order quantity.

I have to do a test run first. There's not much space between the pots so I have to scale the lettering down to 1,5 mm, I don't know if my panel supplier's margins are up for the task.

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Post by whoop_john » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:10 pm

Larrea wrote:It's perfect. It does exactly what I hoped it would do.
Good news. I have placed an order for another 20 PCBs.

I'll do my best to keep track of who has already expressed an interest.

Please private message me with a clear subject if you want a PCB, rather than saying so in a posting on the forum.
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Post by synchromesh » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:42 am

whoop_john wrote:Good news. I have placed an order for another 20 PCBs.
Great, thanks for that! That means I'll be looking to get one or two of PWM's panels as well... :banana:

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Post by PWM » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:19 am

synchromesh, cool! :)

I've just ordered a test panel from the supplier. Hope it comes out nice.

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Post by whoop_john » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:47 am

Bissel Envelope Follower PCBs are now available again.

I have private messaged the following:

synchromesh
teebeehex
midirobot
Dave Kendall
ArboriaAuralist
Haralds:Werk
frozenkore

Anyone else want any? Please message me.

UK:
The board cost is £2.50 and postage £1.50.
So if in UK mainland, please pay £4.00. Extra boards at £2.50 each.

Rest of the world:
The board cost is £2.50 and overseas shipping is £4.
If outside UK mainland please pay £6.50 in GBP. Extra boards at £2.50 each.
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Post by audiohawk » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:22 pm

PMd whoop_john and PWM regarding PCBs and Panels
Thank you all for your work :hail:

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Post by whoop_john » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:33 pm

loderbast
Haralds:Werk
Arboria Auralist
STOJ
John Pallister
James Ellis

Many thanks for your payments, your PCBs will be sent out today.

Mr Pallister and Mr Ellis, please advise your Muffwiggler names, so I can match up your payment to the person and don't chase you.

Mr Ellis and STOJ, I need your addresses to send to.

I still have boards. Please message me if you would like some.

Please make sure I can match up your Muffwiggler name to your payment name and that I have your address - Paypal does not automatically let me know it when I receive a payment.

Thank you all once again for supporting this project.
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Post by whoop_john » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:30 am

I have 8 PCBs left from the latest batch. Get 'em while they are fresh.

If demand continues, I shall order more.
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Post by whoop_john » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:41 am

I still have 5 boards left. Please message me if you want any.
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Post by ArboriaAuralist » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:07 am

Arrived, complete with colour BOM, PCB photo & schematic printouts.

Thanks, John! :tu:

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Post by whoop_john » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:46 am

ArboriaAuralist wrote:Arrived, complete with colour BOM, PCB photo & schematic printouts.

Thanks, John! :tu:
I also like to send things out in sturdy boxes, even if this seems like overkill. I have had a few issues with envelopes being slit and the contents missing on arrival. Whether this has been by design or accident I do not know, but a box makes it more secure.
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Post by audiohawk » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:44 pm

Arrived safely to Portugal too in a neat box!
Thank you for the care and for your work :hail:

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Post by whoop_john » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:39 pm

audiohawk wrote:Arrived safely to Portugal too in a neat box!
Thank you for the care and for your work :hail:
Muito obrigado. That was quick. It has been hotter here in the UK than in Portugal.
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Post by whoop_john » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:38 am

I have 4 PCBs left if anyone wants one - message me. When they are gone, they are gone, I probably won't do another run unless I get a lot of enquiries.
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Post by PWM » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:05 am

I received my test panel but am not very pleased with the result. 1.5 mm seems to be too small for this company.
They are cheap, though..

Here's a picture. (not the Bissel)
Image


I'll check what the cost per panel is when I get home, tonight. Pleas let me know what you guys (galls?) think.

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Post by whoop_john » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:08 am

PCB run 2 now sold out. Thanks Guys 'n' Gals.
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Post by Haralds:Werk » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:19 am

My PCB arrived today. Very well packed and with printed schematic. Thank you very much John. I'll come back here when i have some screen shots with the stuffed and working PCB.
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Post by Haralds:Werk » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:54 am

First i want to thank John for doing the work and the PCB to make this happen. I was curious about how fast the Harry Bissell Envelope follower is in reality. The article was published in December 2002 in EDN with the title "Envelope follower combines fast response, lowripple". In the text it states that this envelope follower is faster then the precision fullwave rectivier / filter combination. Let's check it out.

The first picture shows the input signal (Sine 200Hz) with the output of the Harry Bissell ENV with 470nF smoothing capacitor (blue line) and my ENV with PFWR/24dB Sallen Key filter (green line).

Image

The picture below is the same as above, signal not shown for better visibility.

Image

As you can see with 470nF is the Harry Bissell ENV quite slower then the classical combination.

Here is a closeup and you can see that the ripple is nearly equal.

Image

Lowering the smoothing capacitor to 68nF makes the Harry Bissel nearly as fast as the classical combination. But look at the ripple.

Image

Here is a closeup. As you can see the Harry Bissell ENV is still slower but with a lot more ripple.

Image

I hoped for something faster then the classical combination but now i am disappointed. Using the peakhold method and scanning through the peaks seems a good idea at the first glance. But it works in no way better then the old PFWR / Filter combination. It is slower and has mor ripple if you make it faster.
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Post by dubtoms » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:03 pm

PWM wrote: Please let me know what you guys (galls?) think.
Not very impressed with the results to be honest... What price are we talking about ?

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Post by Haralds:Werk » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:45 am

One more point. Besides the slowness and the ripple the ENV output voltage is not following the amplitude of the input signal properly on the low end.

Picture one input signal 5Vpp 200Hz (Blue line Harry Bissell ENV, green line PVWR / Filter):

Image

Picture two input signal 0.5Vpp 200Hz (Blue line Harry Bissell ENV, green line PVWR / Filter):

Image

The Harry Bissell ENV output voltage is about 500mV off
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Post by roglok » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:05 am

Haralds:Werk wrote:First i want to thank John for doing the work and the PCB to make this happen. I was curious about how fast the Harry Bissell Envelope follower is in reality. The article was published in December 2002 in EDN with the title "Envelope follower combines fast response, lowripple". In the text it states that this envelope follower is faster then the precision fullwave rectivier / filter combination. Let's check it out.
Interesting. Thanks for doing these measurements. May I ask what frequency you are clocking the peak-hold circuits with?

I only had the opportunity to compare my build to a modded Doepfer A-119 and it was a lot faster than that. However, I have not compared the filter frequencies so it could well be that the Doepfer simply has a lower cutoff frequency...

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Post by Haralds:Werk » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:52 am

roglok wrote: Interesting. Thanks for doing these measurements. May I ask what frequency you are clocking the peak-hold circuits with?
The clock is runing with 8kHz
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Post by Haralds:Werk » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:40 am

roglok wrote: I only had the opportunity to compare my build to a modded Doepfer A-119 and it was a lot faster than that. However, I have not compared the filter frequencies so it could well be that the Doepfer simply has a lower cutoff frequency...
Interesting. I never had a A-119. Would be nice to have a look at the schematics and do some measurement. There is always a trade off between speed, ripple and cutoff frequency. You can optimize for either depending on your needs though.
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Post by PWM » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:17 am

Ok, a long due update about the panels.. My apologies for the waiting.

After the unsatisfactory test panel from my 'regular' supplier I contacted some other manufacturers. They're all double or triple the cost of the first supplier.
I've contacted somebody from this forum if he is willing to do a small run.

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Post by PWM » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:50 am

Julian is willing to make a batch of panels. These will cost somewhere between £15 - £20. You can see an example of his work here. (Scroll down a bit)
viewtopic.php?t=183581&start=25

I can't see how to get a better deal for an equally good and nice looking product.

Tomorrow I will sent out PMs to everybody who showed interest in the original panel run to see how many are still up for one. When all have responded (in a time of two weeks) I know a definite price.

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