[Shipping] - Euro Panel/Kit for Serge Resonant EQ Mk. II

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widgetoz
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Re: No outs working

Post by widgetoz » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:26 pm

earlabs wrote:
widgetoz wrote: Check the jack soldering. The pcb footprints on the carrier board are not very clever and basically too big for the actual component pins. Consequently it is very easy to pour too much solder in to the hole trying to get a good solder joint, and end up with solder flowing in to the body of he jack. If this happens there is a good chance that he signal contact has a short to the ground contact - giving no output. If you have a scope, follow the signal from the output points on the actual circuit (opamp etc) and you will probably find it disappears as youget to the jackcontact
And one failure might fuck it up for all of them? I can't check this visually and am not competent/confident enough to do this with a meter. Would you suggest desolder/resolder?
if you have a meter then do the following simple test (with NO power on the module):-
plug a jack lead in to the suspect output. With the meter in 'low resistance' mode (usually 200R) measure across the tip and body of the other end of the lead. If you get 0 then you have a short. You can check you are doing things right by repeating this process on a 'good' output where you should see a number much greater than 0 (you may need to increase the range setting)

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noisefor
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Post by noisefor » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:13 pm

This is likely a really silly question, but I am finally getting ready to build a couple of these and have two different sets of sliders. Although I scoured the thread a few times I can't figure out how to determine the correct LED current-limiting resistor value - "value varies by slider brand and LED color. Adjust to taste."? Can someone advise please?

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Post by FetidEye » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:28 pm

taste = how bright you want to have 'm + what color are they..

a good way to determine this is to pop in a resistor value you expect to be ok, lets say 1k (do not solder yet) and power the daughterboard.
the led should work now, if not wiggle the board a bit to make contact.
decide if the led brightness is ok.
if is is too dark, try a lower value
too light? higher value.

test this till you are satisfied. then solder!


// wooh 1000 posts!

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noisefor
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Post by noisefor » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:30 pm

So simple (practical). Thanks FetidEye!!
FetidEye wrote:taste = how bright you want to have 'm + what color are they..

a good way to determine this is to pop in a resistor value you expect to be ok, lets say 1k (do not solder yet) and power the daughterboard.
the led should work now, if not wiggle the board a bit to make contact.
decide if the led brightness is ok.
if is is too dark, try a lower value
too light? higher value.

test this till you are satisfied. then solder!


// wooh 1000 posts!

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negativspace
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Re: No outs working

Post by negativspace » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:36 pm

earlabs wrote:I have built mine but strangely my general outs are not working. NOT AT ALL. The inputs are okay and the individual outs are as well (except for channel 1 and 4, but that's a different issue).

I am completely at loss about where to look. Wiring seems ok, jacks are soldered and grounded ok. :bang:
1) Probe the outputs on the CGS board to check that the output is happening at all.

2) Check that the jacks are not shorted to ground.

Since an issue with one of these two things is probable, that should get you started. The daughterboard only has some traces to route the signals to the jacks, so it's unlikely to have anything to do with it. And FWIW we've sold nearly 450 of these and I've never once heard of someone flooding a jack with solder. I wouldn't jump straight to that as the likely culprit. (Although I suppose it's possible.)

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clive.grace
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Post by clive.grace » Thu May 07, 2015 4:19 am

If anyone has one of these Mk2 Boards and Panels please let me know. Thonk has been without for a while now and I want to build another one.

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Post by widgetoz » Thu May 07, 2015 5:34 am

clive.grace wrote:If anyone has one of these Mk2 Boards and Panels please let me know. Thonk has been without for a while now and I want to build another one.
We have the pcbs, front panel and full component kits for the complete build - www.elby-designs.com

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spotta
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Post by spotta » Thu May 07, 2015 6:34 am

I recently ordered mine from Synthcube who still have them in stock.
Spotta
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Post by fragletrollet » Sat May 09, 2015 2:10 pm

Finished the daughterboard and cgs-board, just waiting for the 2x5 header and some proper cabling, and this thing should be up and running :sb:

If I had some comments, it would be that the daughterboard could have a little better planned out drilling/marking. The silkscreen for the 2 electrolytics and diodes are on the wrong side of the PCB (!!), and the holes for the Jacks are way too big (that might result in excess solder falling into the jacks as previously mentioned). Also the holes for the resistors could be marginally bigger for better wetting/solder flow.

And it would be nice if you could just install a header instead of all the wiring between the cgs and daughterboard (the cgs would need an update for the individual outs, but all the other lettered holes?)

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negativspace
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Post by negativspace » Sat May 09, 2015 4:01 pm

Try fitting the jack lugs through a smaller hole and tell me what you learn.

I use the same footprint for all of my retail modules and have therefore soldered tens of thousands of such jacks over the years without a single joint going wrong. It's not an actual problem.

Silkscreen is only on the wrong side of you choose to install your parts on the other side. They'll fit on the screened side just as easily if that bugs you. My fab house only screens one side, so learn to love it.

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fragletrollet
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Post by fragletrollet » Sat May 09, 2015 4:12 pm

First off, this was only meant as a friendly observation from my point of view.

The diodes did actually interfere with the nextmost Jack, so I had to remove it and re-solder it from the other side. The electrolytics are too tall to fit between the front panel and the daughterboard, but I Guess I could have mounted them laying Down, but I don`t think that`s intended? But again, it`s no real problem, just small details. I do appreciate someone making this stuff anyways :love:

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Uh oh, it's not working

Post by flyingMono » Sat May 09, 2015 6:45 pm

Alright, finally finished putting it all together, my sliders light up with a pleasant brightness. No aircraft will be flying into my apartment attempting to land. :hihi:

However, nothing works. When I plugged it in, there weren't any magic smoke leaks, so I know I did that right, plus I checked the shrouded header 4 billion times before I soldered it into place.

I checked the jacks and my meter is too dumb to tell me if there is a short. But they all behave the same. If nothing is plugged into the jack, I can test for continuity on the jack lugs and my meter beeps accordingly. When I plug a jack in, no beep as you would expect. So I don't think it's the jacks.

Next problem is I don't have a scope. It's probably high time I buy one and learn to use it considering I keep buying these damned DIY projects because I want to "save money" * cough - bullshit - cough *.

Any suggestions of where or what to look for would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for what otherwise will be great module once I get it working. 8-)

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Re: Uh oh, it's not working

Post by flyingMono » Sat May 09, 2015 7:32 pm

flyingMono wrote:Alright, finally finished putting it all together, my sliders light up with a pleasant brightness. No aircraft will be flying into my apartment attempting to land. :hihi:

However, nothing works. When I plugged it in, there weren't any magic smoke leaks, so I know I did that right, plus I checked the shrouded header 4 billion times before I soldered it into place.

I checked the jacks and my meter is too dumb to tell me if there is a short. But they all behave the same. If nothing is plugged into the jack, I can test for continuity on the jack lugs and my meter beeps accordingly. When I plug a jack in, no beep as you would expect. So I don't think it's the jacks.

Next problem is I don't have a scope. It's probably high time I buy one and learn to use it considering I keep buying these damned DIY projects because I want to "save money" * cough - bullshit - cough *.

Any suggestions of where or what to look for would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for what otherwise will be great module once I get it working. 8-)
Now it's really not working, I reflowed the "M" output on the daughter board and things started to work IF I didn't push the jacks all the way in. So maybe my jacks are messed up.

Some of the outputs seemed really low too, I'm guessing I might have to reflow all of the outputs from the daughter board.

Then there was a PFT sound and the smell of a capacitor going bye-bye and now the 11k slider doesn't light up.

What now? Clearly the LED is toast in the slider.

:bang:

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Re: Uh oh, it's not working

Post by flyingMono » Mon May 11, 2015 9:06 pm

flyingMono wrote:
flyingMono wrote:Alright, finally finished putting it all together, my sliders light up with a pleasant brightness. No aircraft will be flying into my apartment attempting to land. :hihi:

However, nothing works. When I plugged it in, there weren't any magic smoke leaks, so I know I did that right, plus I checked the shrouded header 4 billion times before I soldered it into place.

I checked the jacks and my meter is too dumb to tell me if there is a short. But they all behave the same. If nothing is plugged into the jack, I can test for continuity on the jack lugs and my meter beeps accordingly. When I plug a jack in, no beep as you would expect. So I don't think it's the jacks.

Next problem is I don't have a scope. It's probably high time I buy one and learn to use it considering I keep buying these damned DIY projects because I want to "save money" * cough - bullshit - cough *.

Any suggestions of where or what to look for would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for what otherwise will be great module once I get it working. 8-)
Now it's really not working, I reflowed the "M" output on the daughter board and things started to work IF I didn't push the jacks all the way in. So maybe my jacks are messed up.

Some of the outputs seemed really low too, I'm guessing I might have to reflow all of the outputs from the daughter board.

Then there was a PFT sound and the smell of a capacitor going bye-bye and now the 11k slider doesn't light up.

What now? Clearly the LED is toast in the slider.

:bang:
Solved one problem, the input jacks, upper and lower comb jacks, and all out jacks were upside down.

I'm such a rookie... :deadbanana:

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fragletrollet
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Post by fragletrollet » Tue May 12, 2015 11:16 am

Image

Image


It`s alive and breathing (fire) :deadbanana: Man this is one feedback-monster! Talk about making dubstep wobbles out of any drumbeat :hail: :sb: Sure you can use it as a normal eq, but hey, it ain`t no Neve :lol:

Real happy to get it all working first try, still 100% success rate on my builds so far (crossed fingers).

Thanks for an awesome project!

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fragletrollet
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Post by fragletrollet » Tue May 12, 2015 12:22 pm

CV`able gain on bands would have been killer :love: Would it be doable with any hacks? I guess not.. I`ll use my hands :mrgreen:

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Post by bkbirge » Tue May 12, 2015 4:40 pm

fragletrollet wrote:CV`able gain on bands would have been killer :love: Would it be doable with any hacks? I guess not.. I`ll use my hands :mrgreen:
Sure you could hack it. Synthrotek (I think) offers a drop in vca for any pot. Price them and you might get an idea why adding 10 vca's to this circuit probably was not chosen!

Modular & Dork Rock:
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https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/89177
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/379579


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unease
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Post by unease » Wed May 13, 2015 2:19 am

The thing is that since the new version has separate outs you can put them all through their own VCA if you want. Or you can group them to a few, say 2-3 VCAs and do interesting things!
It was discussed if it was worth it to include VCAs on the new version but that would have made the module much more expensive and more complex to build. But with the separate outs the possibilities are really there, it's just a matter of how many VCAs and modulation sources you have :tu:
Too bad I just don't have the time to build it right now, I'm really eager to try it out!

Finally, where are all the audio demos of this thing!? :mad: :mad: :hihi:

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Post by fragletrollet » Wed May 13, 2015 3:23 am

This one? Way cool. I do understand the omition tough, but I think I have a project on my hands then... Where in the circuit would this be inserted?

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Post by fragletrollet » Wed May 13, 2015 3:24 am

unease wrote:The thing is that since the new version has separate outs you can put them all through their own VCA if you want. Or you can group them to a few, say 2-3 VCAs and do interesting things!
It was discussed if it was worth it to include VCAs on the new version but that would have made the module much more expensive and more complex to build. But with the separate outs the possibilities are really there, it's just a matter of how many VCAs and modulation sources you have :tu:
Too bad I just don't have the time to build it right now, I'm really eager to try it out!

Finally, where are all the audio demos of this thing!? :mad: :mad: :hihi:
But controlling the output of the separate outputs into a vca and mixer would not be the same as controlling the gain of each band? I mean you would be controlling the output of the eq, but not the internal gain in the eq, where all the feedback and magic happens.

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Post by unease » Wed May 13, 2015 6:08 am

fragletrollet wrote:
unease wrote:The thing is that since the new version has separate outs you can put them all through their own VCA if you want. Or you can group them to a few, say 2-3 VCAs and do interesting things!
It was discussed if it was worth it to include VCAs on the new version but that would have made the module much more expensive and more complex to build. But with the separate outs the possibilities are really there, it's just a matter of how many VCAs and modulation sources you have :tu:
Too bad I just don't have the time to build it right now, I'm really eager to try it out!

Finally, where are all the audio demos of this thing!? :mad: :mad: :hihi:
But controlling the output of the separate outputs into a vca and mixer would not be the same as controlling the gain of each band? I mean you would be controlling the output of the eq, but not the internal gain in the eq, where all the feedback and magic happens.
Well, however you add VCAs they would probably change the behaviour in feedback patches. If VCAs had been added as an integral part of the EQ people would probably complain that it would behave differently than the original. There is nothing stopping you from patching external feedback loops including VCAs.

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Post by simfonik » Thu May 28, 2015 10:02 pm

Finally getting around to building these and I've learned that some of the polystyrene caps that used to be available individually via Mouser now require a minimum order of 100. :doh:

These are what I still need:

[4] 47pf
[4] 1n
[4] 2n2
[4] 47n

Does anyone happen to have any surplus they'd be interested in selling?

:help:

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Post by simfonik » Sun May 31, 2015 8:14 pm

Do I have the orientation correct? I'm assuming the line indicates the 1 pin.

Image

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Post by negativspace » Sun May 31, 2015 8:29 pm

Yes, that's correct. :tu:

For the caps, use ceramic for the 47pf as those are not part of the filter bands. The 47n are perfectly fine to sub with polypropylene or C0G if you have to. Styrenes above 10nF are tougher to source... I periodically buy 5-10 on ebay, usually some decent deals can be had. (Buck or two apiece.)

Small Bear has lots of values in stock as well, so if Mouser wants you to buy 100 give SB a shot. 10nF rule still applies, at least last time I checked.

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Post by negativspace » Sun May 31, 2015 8:40 pm

On the 10 VCAs thing...it was more a matter of complexity than anything. 10 good VCAs would've doubled the parts count and in the end it was just an epic case of feature-creep. Granted it would be cool, and so would envelope followers on each band for the LEDs, but... at some point you start to feel silly for bejewelling the gilded lily. :lol:

I've hooked one of these up to a bunch of VCAs and it really wasn't as awesome as I'd hoped. If someone would care to prove me wrong with some patching and a video I might be persuaded to pursue it. It may be a matter of manufacturing a populated daughterboard, or a second independent 2x6" as SOIC could be too big for this, but if someone can prove it's worth it...

(How's that for a demo-video-stimulator? :twisted: )

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