[BUILD] Bytes Turing Machine expander

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windspirit
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Post by windspirit » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:41 am

Sounds to me like you are having problem with your connection to the end of the loop. My best guess is that the jumper connecting the main turing board to JLONG is faulty. I would start by re-flowing the solder on the pad of your switch and the jumper pad on your bytes expander, then do a continuity test with your multi-meter to check that the connection is good. You can extra double check by flipping the length switch into long mode and then testing the continuity between the middle lug of the switch and the JLONG jumper pad.

Go ahead and run this test for me: In in long mode with the prob knob all the way CW (locked) try adding bits to the sequence with the switch. Do they cycle to the end and then disappear or do they not show up at all?

Also the trace cut would not be an issue since that only affects the short-length operation.

FYI I will be out of town this weekend but I will be able to answer questions for a bit tomorrow and then when I get back Sunday night. Hope you can wait that long.

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Post by markfrancombe » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:19 am

Ill try to do it tonight, but Im mixing our album this weekend, so no problem with the wait.

Thanks for you help... report to follow!

Mark

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windspirit
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Post by windspirit » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:03 pm

Just reuploaded the BOM, should be all good but I will double double check it again. I also backed it up in several different ways.

https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/P ... be831bf43a

Did this all before leaving to a party in the desert, that's how much I love you guys!

LMK if you notice anything wrong with it.

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windspirit
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Post by windspirit » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:43 pm

markfrancombe wrote:
windspirit wrote: Did you take the original 4015 out of the turing and put it into the bytes?
I DID remove it yes, bit NO if didn't use it in BYTES; had new ones. I bought via Mouser Bom, just to be sure I got correct parts...
So I was thinking more about this and it occured to me that there are no 4015s in the BOM, only 4051s. Can you just double check for me that you didnt swap the 4015 for a 4051 on your Bytes expander? It should be two 4051s sandwiching a 4015, all on the left side of the board. That would definitely lead to the behavior you are describing because instead of a second register you would have a switch.

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Post by markfrancombe » Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:28 pm

windspirit wrote: So I was thinking more about this and it occured to me that there are no 4015s in the BOM, only 4051s. Can you just double check for me that you didnt swap the 4015 for a 4051 on your Bytes expander? It should be two 4051s sandwiching a 4015, all on the left side of the board. That would definitely lead to the behavior you are describing because instead of a second register you would have a switch.
DAMN YOU ARE GOOD!!

I MEAN THIS TO BE IN CAPS BY THE WAY!

Yep Tha was it, All working AOK now!!!

I think the fact that the 4015 is NOT on the BOM confused me actually, I sugest you add it with a note. (Not needed as you must remove the one from the TM)


Anyway, thanks so much

Off to Wiggle!


Marik

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Post by clive.grace » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:13 am

Just started my Bytes build last night, simple elegant board. I finished panelling the Turing Machine in puristic monochromatic white and found a nice knob. The J3RK crossfader and and Music Thing Spring Reverb will use these as well, anything with a a large central knob gets these... Like some (especially Sneak Thief) I do not like visual clutter, at all. The Davies ones are on their way from Thonk (white, natch).

I was able to make most of the Bytes from my bits box, it high in standard parts and larger resistors stack upright just fine. If worried about the proximity of the clustered 470K and 2,2Ks place so legs down facing each other. The kit has just a few ICs I did not have. Love it when that happens although it cleared me out of 470K's!

But first the Turing Machine Its great... Its addictive. I might have two...

ImageTuring Machine Completed by c-g., on Flickr

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windspirit
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Post by windspirit » Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:47 pm

markfrancombe wrote:
windspirit wrote: So I was thinking more about this and it occured to me that there are no 4015s in the BOM, only 4051s. Can you just double check for me that you didnt swap the 4015 for a 4051 on your Bytes expander? It should be two 4051s sandwiching a 4015, all on the left side of the board. That would definitely lead to the behavior you are describing because instead of a second register you would have a switch.
DAMN YOU ARE GOOD!!

I MEAN THIS TO BE IN CAPS BY THE WAY!

Yep Tha was it, All working AOK now!!!

I think the fact that the 4015 is NOT on the BOM confused me actually, I sugest you add it with a note. (Not needed as you must remove the one from the TM)


Anyway, thanks so much

Off to Wiggle!


Marik
Hmm, yeah I can see why that could confuse people, I'll add a note to the build manual.

Thanks for the kind words, glad you got it working :D

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jules
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Post by jules » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:38 am

clive.grace wrote:If worried about the proximity of the clustered 470K and 2,2Ks place so legs down facing each other. The kit has just a few ICs I did not have. Love it when that happens although it cleared me out of 470K's!
Yep, I only had a few 470s, so I had to get creative (300+150, 200+280,... up to 100+200+180 for the last one). Everything works within 450-485 range. Never done so many resistor "kisses" on a module or a "threesome".
But it's all peachy and great fun to play with.

Concerning the BOM: absolutely right, only 2x 4051 required.

Can I enquire about the function of the 100K trimmer?
Dieter: "who needs all this??!!??"
tak poo-poom

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windspirit
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Post by windspirit » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:53 pm

Theres a bit in the build doc about the trimmer, it is basically an attenuator on the cv input. Its supposed to be calibrated so that each step has an equal range of the cv's travel. The method to calibrate this is also in the build doc (or maybe the user manual?)

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windspirit
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Post by windspirit » Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:46 am

Just so you know I uploaded some info on problems that I and other people have had in the builds and their solutions. I have also outlined my method for calibrating the noise transistor although I will most likely make a video and a new thread about that.

If you have had trouble with getting your unit to lock then you probably want to read what I just wrote. The trouble-shooting section is right above the BOM at the end of the original post.

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Post by markfrancombe » Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:59 am

Thanks Windspirit... Ill run your test procedure later to see if mine is working completely correctly but... Quick question...
you said
The solution that I found was to increase R6 to 220k,
Is that a suggested mod for all folks? Even if they havent noticed anything? If its a more "correct" circuit, then Id do it...

M

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windspirit
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Post by windspirit » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:36 am

I honestly don't know, but my attitude is if it aint broke don't fix it.

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Poldenstein
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Post by Poldenstein » Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:03 pm

Just finished building mine, but no love :(
The controls on bytes panel don't seem to have any effect at all, and if I set the probability knob full CW with length switch on the short position the loop gets erased and I have silence going on indefinitely.
I am aware of the 4015 thing.
Could it be I did not cut the trace properly? This is my first attempt and I could have been too light.

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Post by windspirit » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:58 pm

Based on your description I'd say that it's more likely your jumpers aren't making a good connection. Try reflowing those joints (especially on the switch side).

A couple more questions incase that doesn't work:

When the prob. knob is fully CCW (aka inverted locking) do you get a checkerboard pattern of alternating 1s and 0s or do you just get the buffer filling up with ones?

In the middle of the prob. knob range do you get both 0s and 1s?

In long length mode does your buffer clear when you lock?

Try clocking the turing machine at audio rate and see if the length knobs have any effect on the sound.

Also try testing your switch with a continuity tester and make sure it works. Sometimes the inside mechanism can melt a little bit from heat and it won't make a good connection. I've had it happen.

We'll get this thing working.

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Poldenstein
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Post by Poldenstein » Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:01 pm

Thanks for your help. I'm sure we'll do!
I hope to have some time to troubleshoot tomorrow and I'll let you know..

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Post by Poldenstein » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:57 am

Lastly i had some time to spend at my desk.
I tried redoing the jumper connections, even desoldering the sockets and using plain cable, but nothing changed. I checked for the switch to work with a tester, and it does.
With prob knob CCW I get a check board pattern that when sent unquantized to my oscillator sounds like a semitone trill.. Creates suspense :hihi:
In the middle of prob range I get both ones and zeroes
In long length mode the buffer doesn't clear and stay locked
When clocked at audio rates if I put the prob knob CW the sound gets silenced with occasional crackles, when CCW the sound is clean but less loud, and it gets noisy in the middle
As I said, no life from bytes panel controls.
Thank you

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windspirit
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Post by windspirit » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:06 pm

Hmm interesting. Do you think you can post a picture of both the top and bottom of your bytes expander? Try to get close enough that the chip numbers can be read.

Also are you doing this to a turing machine that you have had for awhile or is it a unit that you built along w the bytes expander?

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Poldenstein
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Post by Poldenstein » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:28 pm

Hope this are enough
The Turing machine was built by me from a Thonk kit, one year and few months ago.
Image
Image

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windspirit
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Post by windspirit » Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:27 pm

There's a resistor you a missing right under the CD4051, I believe it's the 2.2K current resistor for the clock. That would probably lead to the problem you are having. It's sort of hiding between the 4051 and the 4015. You see that un-filled space on the back of your board?

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Poldenstein
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Post by Poldenstein » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:48 pm

Yes thank you!! Never left out a component until today :doh:
You're eagle eyed, windspirit.. :hail:
Hope to be able to fix it in the next days, then I'll report back.
In the meantime you have my eternal gratitude.

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windspirit
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Post by windspirit » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:32 pm

Its kindof hidden so I can see how someone would make that mistake. Hope it works!

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Poldenstein
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Post by Poldenstein » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:17 pm

Yesss that was it!!
Time for some Stravinskij in my modular :bacon: :bacon: :bacon:
Thank you indeed, and BTW you did a great job here, and the docs are excellent too.
Now to some sleep starvation..

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windspirit
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Post by windspirit » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:01 pm

Glad we fixed it easily, and thank you for the kind words! Is it weird that I kind of had fun making the build documents? :goo:

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CeeJay
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Trace cut not necessary

Post by CeeJay » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:01 pm

I figured out that a trace cut on the Turing Machine PCB is not necessary for a working Bytes expander. Instead you can remove (desolder or just clip off) the resistor R14. I think that is easier to do and there is no need to damage the board.

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Re: Trace cut not necessary

Post by windspirit » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:44 am

CeeJay wrote:I figured out that a trace cut on the Turing Machine PCB is not necessary for a working Bytes expander. Instead you can remove (desolder or just clip off) the resistor R14. I think that is easier to do and there is no need to damage the board.
Wow I think you are right! I am going to verify this and possibly update the build documents to reflect them. Send me your address and I will send you some goodies in appreciation :cloud: .

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