DIY Modular Synth Power Supply (sorta)

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Post by slumberjack » Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:50 pm

found two of these somewhere in a bin. now want to check if they work..
but i don't get how to connect the unused sens pins of the 5v output.
soldering a cable should from 8 to 4/6 and 10 to 12/14 work?

and then as 0v i'm i right to use pin 34?


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Post by jobroms » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:32 am

I have a HBAA-40-W-AG device with the following ports:

5V: +OUT, +S, -S, -OUT
+/-12V: +OUT, +S, [+S, COM, -S], -S, -OUT

As I understand it I should connect the following:

5V: +OUT <---> +S and -S <---> -OUT
+/-12V: +OUT <---> +S and [+S <---> COM <---> -S] and -S <---> -OUT

I will use the 5V (regulated to 3.3V) output to drive some MEMS microphones and the +/-12V output to drive the mic preamp.

Can I safely connect the -OUT of the 5V supply with the COM of the +/-12V supply to get a common ground? Or is there some reason why I should avoid this?

I might just hook it up and check with a voltmeter if there is any potential between the both "grounds".

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:10 am

jobroms wrote:Can I safely connect the -OUT of the 5V supply with the COM of the +/-12V supply to get a common ground? Or is there some reason why I should avoid this?

I might just hook it up and check with a voltmeter if there is any potential between the both "grounds".
Welcome to Muff's! :party:

Yes, connecting the -OUT of the +5v supply to the COM of the +-12v supply will work fine. I have a lot of supplies like this connected to distribution boards and the -OUT of the +5v and the COM of the +-12v are connected together on the board.

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:13 am

slumberjack wrote:found two of these somewhere in a bin. now want to check if they work..
but i don't get how to connect the unused sens pins of the 5v output.
soldering a cable should from 8 to 4/6 and 10 to 12/14 work?

and then as 0v i'm i right to use pin 34?


Image
Did you ever figure this out? :hmm: If it was mine I'd want to find some documentation that explains how to use it!
Last edited by JohnLRice on Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by DJMaytag » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:00 am

jobroms wrote:I have a HBAA-40-W-AG device with the following ports:
If using this for a Eurorack supply, I might recommend the HCBB-75W-AG as a minimum for a triple output PSU. I'd go with a HDCC-150W-AG if I wanted to simplify my writing, or 2x HE12-10.2-AG plus an HD5-12/OVP-AG for powering a huge system.
jobroms wrote:5V: +OUT <---> +S and -S <---> -OUT
+/-12V: +OUT <---> +S and [+S <---> COM <---> -S] and -S <---> -OUT
Is this referring to connecting the OUT's to the sense leads? You can do it, but it's not really that useful in a Eurorack system. The sense leads are meant for monitoring the voltage at one point for a relatively static power output (like for medical equipment). The dynamic power requirements of a modular make the sense lines... not make much sense. ;)
jobroms wrote:I will use the 5V (regulated to 3.3V) output to drive some MEMS microphones and the +/-12V output to drive the mic preamp.
I guess this answers the earlier question...
jobroms wrote:Can I safely connect the -OUT of the 5V supply with the COM of the +/-12V supply to get a common ground? Or is there some reason why I should avoid this?
This is what I believe I have done. I have two PSU's, a dual output (+/- 12V) and a single floating output (+5V) to power my rack.
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Post by Jarno » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:31 pm

JohnLRice wrote:
slumberjack wrote:found two of these somewhere in a bin. now want to check if they work..
but i don't get how to connect the unused sens pins of the 5v output.
soldering a cable should from 8 to 4/6 and 10 to 12/14 work?

and then as 0v i'm i right to use pin 34?


Image
Did you ever figure this out? :hmm: If it was mine I'd want to gind some documentation that explains how to use it!
I use two of these in my big rack, one has just 2x12v, the other 2x15 and 5.
Connect sense lines to corresponding outputs directly (usually they are used to offset the voltage drop in long supply lines typically seen in industrial applications).
Stack the voltages by connecting the + of one pair of outputs to - of the other pair of outputs (they usually are isolated).
If you don't mind the loss of 10hp of frontpanel real estate, these power supplies are really easy to use, and you see them for little money sometimes (while they are pretty expensive when new).

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Post by slumberjack » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:28 pm

Jarno wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
slumberjack wrote:found two of these somewhere in a bin. now want to check if they work..
but i don't get how to connect the unused sens pins of the 5v output.
soldering a cable should from 8 to 4/6 and 10 to 12/14 work?

and then as 0v i'm i right to use pin 34?


Image
Did you ever figure this out? :hmm: If it was mine I'd want to gind some documentation that explains how to use it!
I use two of these in my big rack, one has just 2x12v, the other 2x15 and 5.
Connect sense lines to corresponding outputs directly (usually they are used to offset the voltage drop in long supply lines typically seen in industrial applications).
Stack the voltages by connecting the + of one pair of outputs to - of the other pair of outputs (they usually are isolated).
If you don't mind the loss of 10hp of frontpanel real estate, these power supplies are really easy to use, and you see them for little money sometimes (while they are pretty expensive when new).
one i blew while soldering too late a night :(
the other one is broken on the +12 line :/
the third i'm going to check out for the next case.
now i'm with mw ps2512. seems quite noisy tho..

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Post by jean_schön » Tue May 02, 2017 12:00 pm

Hey, anyone knowledgeable. would it be ok to use this type of cable between the AC inlet and the power supply? https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/stat ... R_(FQ).pdf

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Tue May 02, 2017 1:11 pm

jean_schön wrote:Hey, anyone knowledgeable. would it be ok to use this type of cable between the AC inlet and the power supply? https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/stat ... R_(FQ).pdf
The link you provided isn't working. :hmm:

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Post by jean_schön » Wed May 03, 2017 3:02 am

JohnLRice wrote:
jean_schön wrote:Hey, anyone knowledgeable. would it be ok to use this type of cable between the AC inlet and the power supply? https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/stat ... R_(FQ).pdf
The link you provided isn't working. :hmm:
Here are the specs:

House wiring cable H07Z1-R (FQ)
Max conductor temperature: -25°C/+70°C
Voltage Rating U0/U: 450/750V
conductor: stranded class 2

Application
H07Z1-R is a halogen free insulated class 2 conductor for fixed
installation in house wiring. To be installed in conduit or duct
systems, or as connection wire to be used in switch cabinet or
boxes and similar applications. Shall be protected against UVlight.

Type code: H07Z1-R/FQ
cross section: 2,5 mm²
insulation thickness: 0,8 mm
outer diameter: 3,6 mm
copper weight: 24 kg/km
Last edited by jean_schön on Wed May 03, 2017 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by jean_schön » Wed May 03, 2017 3:02 am

oops, double post

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Post by roglok » Wed May 03, 2017 3:19 am

2,5 mm² seems hefty. if you can fit it, it won't do any harm, but personally i'd go for a more flexible cross section of 1,5 mm²...

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Wed May 03, 2017 3:30 am

Hi jean_schön,

I'm sorry but I'm not knowledgeable enough to tell from those specifications if that wire is a good choice or not. I think we are from different countries and while I have some knowledge of what can work here, what is required in other countries tends to be a mystery to me! :oops:

Since the length of wire needed between the AC inlet and the power supply is typically short, like a few inches to a foot long or so, just about any cooper wire of sufficient gauge should work fine. It depends on how large your power supply is and also what type of connections you intend to make (soldering or crimp connectors or?)

Without knowing more, I'd make a reasonable guess as a starting point to look for insulated 16 AWG stranded copper wire.

One way to go about this is to take a look at the power cord that you are going to use between the AC wall outlet and your AC inlet and see if you can read the specs on it and then get the same thing. If you have a spare power cord, just sacrifice it and cut a piece out of ti to use? :tu:

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Post by jean_schön » Wed May 03, 2017 4:45 am

JohnLRice wrote:Hi jean_schön,

I'm sorry but I'm not knowledgeable enough to tell from those specifications if that wire is a good choice or not. I think we are from different countries and while I have some knowledge of what can work here, what is required in other countries tends to be a mystery to me! :oops:

Since the length of wire needed between the AC inlet and the power supply is typically short, like a few inches to a foot long or so, just about any cooper wire of sufficient gauge should work fine. It depends on how large your power supply is and also what type of connections you intend to make (soldering or crimp connectors or?)

Without knowing more, I'd make a reasonable guess as a starting point to look for insulated 16 AWG stranded copper wire.

One way to go about this is to take a look at the power cord that you are going to use between the AC wall outlet and your AC inlet and see if you can read the specs on it and then get the same thing. If you have a spare power cord, just sacrifice it and cut a piece out of ti to use? :tu:
thanks for your reply! Yes i'm in Sweden, and this wire would be equivalent to 13 AWG. That's probably overkill as roglok wrote. This is for a standalone synth, the crowbx which has a +/- 19 V supply. I think these wires will work fine (i had them lying around, otherwise i would have gotten a smaller gauge), just wanted to be sure.

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Post by jean_schön » Wed May 10, 2017 4:09 am

another question: in the documentation for the HAA15-0.8 it is recommended to use a 700 °C soldering iron for the input connections. How seriously should one take this recommendation?

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Wed May 10, 2017 4:59 am

jean_schön wrote:another question: in the documentation for the HAA15-0.8 it is recommended to use a 700 °C soldering iron for the input connections. How seriously should one take this recommendation?
:eek: I think that must be a typo and should probably be F for Fahrenheit! :hihi:

I just checked the document that came with a small linear Bel Power power supply I bought new this year and it also says "use a 700 °C soldering iron for the input" lol That much heat can melt aluminum and radium! :deadbanana:

You should write to Bel Power and suggest they have a typo in their documentation. :tu:

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Post by DJMaytag » Tue May 16, 2017 10:54 am

DJMaytag wrote:Image
I've got a 5V PSU on order off eBay ($20 for an HB-5-3/OVP) and am interested in doing something like the above image with my PSU's (the HB-5-3 and my HCC-15-3 for +/- 12V).

Could I take out the board from the HB-5-3 and connect it's power connections to the transformer power outputs on the HCC-15-3? I don't see why the beefier transformer from the HCC-15-3 wouldn't be sufficient to use with the HB-5-3? It'd be nice to make a dedicated power box that's separate from my actual IKEA Rast cases, and ditch the extra weight from the HB-5-3's transformer.

Thoughts?
OK, so John L Rice helped show the error of my ways in the above scenario, but now I have one that might possibly work (but probably not...). Anyway, I just acquired two of these single output PSU's for 10.2A each at 12V (one for +12 and the other for -12):

Image

These things are MASSIVE, even bigger than I had imagined they'd be! I'm guessing that a HUGE chunk of the weight of each one is in the transformer. Seeing as how they have identical transformers and identical circuitboards, would it be possible to ditch one transformer and wire second PSU's circuitboard to the secondary on the first PSU?

Would doubling the current through the transformer to feed two identical circuitboards be beyond what the transformer may have been designed to handle?
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Post by slumberjack » Sun May 28, 2017 7:03 am

anyone good at japanese?
seems to be a PSU with lotta A and very low noise.

http://www.artmix.com/hps_2009_EVO.html

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Post by adam » Sun May 28, 2017 7:07 am

No cooling fun
:sadbanana:

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Post by slumberjack » Sun May 28, 2017 8:19 am

adam wrote:
No cooling fun
:sadbanana:
i must have over looked that beauzy! :yay:

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Post by fuzzbass » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:34 am

This might be the oldest active thread on the forum.

I have four HCC15-3-A here, and all of them have I LIM. trimmers on them which I expect set the trip point for overcurrent protection. Does anyone know where adjustment of these is documented? The controls are not mentioned on any datasheets I found. Thanks.
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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:34 pm

Soldering multiple leads to output posts?:

I'm a massive chickenshit, I still stick to the kiddie table and use Dot Com PSUs (I'm using the QPS1 which is Arrick's smallest PSU, and even so I'm only using half of it's rated load). I feel plenty comfortable wit the QPS1's capability when it comes to my 15 volt system.

However, I've purchased a new Bel Power HCC15-3-AG (12v @ 3 amps per rail) that I'll be venturing into connecting up to my Euro cab which I'm currently still fabricating. Going the whole ~heavy bus bar~ routine (heavily inspired by Graham Hinton's efforts), and I'll cook up an industrial looking power inlet control panel (big fancy words for an ON/OFF DPDT switch that is double fused). I'm using what some may consider to be total overkill to connect the 0-volt rails between the 12 volt and 15 volt systems. So that part is very well taken care of.

I've never soldered anything to the type of posts that the regulation PCBs use for DC output connections, and I'm an itty bitty bit anxious about that part. Other than that, it all seems fairly straightforward.

I'd like to be able to solder one wire that is stuck straight into the post's center hole, AND also wrap another wire around that same post so as to be able to have a total of three conductors all soldered to one post to conduct power up to the main bus bars. (Obviously, one group of three wires sent to each bus bar ... -12v ... +12v ... 0-volt ... three conductors on each post, running up to the appropriate bus bar.

Of course, this has nothing to do with the sense leads, those are another issue altogether. I'll be connecting the sense leads to each bus bar, not to each output post (which is how the Arrick PSUs are set up).

So, does this three conductor on one post seem doable? My soldering skills are ... well ... maybe not "golden touch" but I do well enough. My concern is heat input. I only have a 60 watt pen, and while it's good for up to 900f, it is still only a 60 watt pen. That said I am afraid I'd have to linger for too long to solder three conductors to each power output post.

I just don't want to roast a post! :roll:

Am I worrying about nothing (as usual)?

Thanks.
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Post by fuzzbass » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:43 pm

Rex Coil 7 wrote:Soldering multiple leads to output posts?:

I'm a massive chickenshit, I still stick to the kiddie table and use Dot Com PSUs (I'm using the QPS1 which is Arrick's smallest PSU, and even so I'm only using half of it's rated load). I feel plenty comfortable wit the QPS1's capability when it comes to my 15 volt system.

However, I've purchased a new Bel Power HCC15-3-AG (12v @ 3 amps per rail) that I'll be venturing into connecting up to my Euro cab which I'm currently still fabricating. Going the whole ~heavy bus bar~ routine (heavily inspired by Graham Hinton's efforts), and I'll cook up an industrial looking power inlet control panel (big fancy words for an ON/OFF DPDT switch that is double fused). I'm using what some may consider to be total overkill to connect the 0-volt rails between the 12 volt and 15 volt systems. So that part is very well taken care of.

I've never soldered anything to the type of posts that the regulation PCBs use for DC output connections, and I'm an itty bitty bit anxious about that part. Other than that, it all seems fairly straightforward.

I'd like to be able to solder one wire that is stuck straight into the post's center hole, AND also wrap another wire around that same post so as to be able to have a total of three conductors all soldered to one post to conduct power up to the main bus bars. (Obviously, one group of three wires sent to each bus bar ... -12v ... +12v ... 0-volt ... three conductors on each post, running up to the appropriate bus bar.

Of course, this has nothing to do with the sense leads, those are another issue altogether. I'll be connecting the sense leads to each bus bar, not to each output post (which is how the Arrick PSUs are set up).

So, does this three conductor on one post seem doable? My soldering skills are ... well ... maybe not "golden touch" but I do well enough. My concern is heat input. I only have a 60 watt pen, and while it's good for up to 900f, it is still only a 60 watt pen. That said I am afraid I'd have to linger for too long to solder three conductors to each power output post.

I just don't want to roast a post! :roll:

Am I worrying about nothing (as usual)?

Thanks.
For power connections before distribution, I try to stick to mechanical connectors like crimped or screw down. I don't think solder increases the resistance, but when something goes wrong, I want the first thing to melt being the fuse and not some soldered connection to a bus bar or the PSU (thus freeing a hot wire to go where it will).

More to the point of your post, roast away. The power supplies are made to live in hellish conditions. I just rebuilt three that had burned out resistors and leaky caps on them. Bent frames too - probably dropped 20-30 feet into a steel bin when they were pulled from service. These probably spent the last twenty five years driving DC motors in a factory poultry farm, or operating a soleniod in a garbage incinerator. They're happy as clams now.
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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:41 pm

fuzzbass wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:Soldering multiple leads to output posts?:

I'm a massive chickenshit, I still stick to the kiddie table and use Dot Com PSUs (I'm using the QPS1 which is Arrick's smallest PSU, and even so I'm only using half of it's rated load). I feel plenty comfortable wit the QPS1's capability when it comes to my 15 volt system.

However, I've purchased a new Bel Power HCC15-3-AG (12v @ 3 amps per rail) that I'll be venturing into connecting up to my Euro cab which I'm currently still fabricating. Going the whole ~heavy bus bar~ routine (heavily inspired by Graham Hinton's efforts), and I'll cook up an industrial looking power inlet control panel (big fancy words for an ON/OFF DPDT switch that is double fused). I'm using what some may consider to be total overkill to connect the 0-volt rails between the 12 volt and 15 volt systems. So that part is very well taken care of.

I've never soldered anything to the type of posts that the regulation PCBs use for DC output connections, and I'm an itty bitty bit anxious about that part. Other than that, it all seems fairly straightforward.

I'd like to be able to solder one wire that is stuck straight into the post's center hole, AND also wrap another wire around that same post so as to be able to have a total of three conductors all soldered to one post to conduct power up to the main bus bars. (Obviously, one group of three wires sent to each bus bar ... -12v ... +12v ... 0-volt ... three conductors on each post, running up to the appropriate bus bar.

Of course, this has nothing to do with the sense leads, those are another issue altogether. I'll be connecting the sense leads to each bus bar, not to each output post (which is how the Arrick PSUs are set up).

So, does this three conductor on one post seem doable? My soldering skills are ... well ... maybe not "golden touch" but I do well enough. My concern is heat input. I only have a 60 watt pen, and while it's good for up to 900f, it is still only a 60 watt pen. That said I am afraid I'd have to linger for too long to solder three conductors to each power output post.

I just don't want to roast a post! :roll:

Am I worrying about nothing (as usual)?

Thanks.
For power connections before distribution, I try to stick to mechanical connectors like crimped or screw down. I don't think solder increases the resistance, but when something goes wrong, I want the first thing to melt being the fuse and not some soldered connection to a bus bar or the PSU (thus freeing a hot wire to go where it will).

More to the point of your post, roast away. The power supplies are made to live in hellish conditions. I just rebuilt three that had burned out resistors and leaky caps on them. Bent frames too - probably dropped 20-30 feet into a steel bin when they were pulled from service. These probably spent the last twenty five years driving DC motors in a factory poultry farm, or operating a soleniod in a garbage incinerator. They're happy as clams now.
I'm talking about these posts pictured below here .... not the terminations at the bus bars .... nor the terminations on the transformer's secondary winding outputs.

Image
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Post by fuzzbass » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:42 pm

Something like this, pictured on page one of this thread:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mo ... qfA%2fE%3d
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