electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

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ubiquiphilia
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electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by ubiquiphilia » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:49 am

so writing this brings to mind ip theft, which isn't the intention, happy for bernie hutchins and heirs to get my money, just, the cost of postage to australia is prohibitive, not to mention carbon unfriendly.

given the modern era and the ease of transporting pdf files I'm wondering if anyone knows whether the pdf's for these esteemed, hallowed publications exist.

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Tombola
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Post by Tombola » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:15 am

I'd be happy to pay Bernie whatever for these, rather than having boxes of photocopy paper delivered from the US and filling up my workshop.

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Post by Graham Hinton » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:38 am

Have you thought of asking Bernie Hutchins?

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c1t1zen
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Post by c1t1zen » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:52 pm

I think you may be better off finding someone who owns it already down under.
All of these were double sided prints from the late 70's and it would take hundreds of hours to scan and proof it all. Just removing the rusty staples to get it loose could be a challenge. Another good bet is just buy the Preferred Circuit Handbook.
In my opinion it's worth it if you are serious about SynthDIY...no better resource on analog synth circuits.

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Post by BugBrand » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:50 pm

When I tried to get a couple of bits from Bernie (think the bits you're after) it turned out that postage for those two would be the same as if he sent a load extra - so he chucked in (for free - though postage costs were quite high to begin) several thick bunches of core electronotes.

I think there's been talk before about 'why doesn't someone scan them' - it would surely be quite a major task, but it'd be of great benefit to bernie (much easier to sell then) and everyone else. I do tend to prefer hard-copy, but I know many others wouldn't want the full collection in hard form.

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Post by Starspawn » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:00 pm

I ordered a Thomas Henry book from a print on demand thing (lulu?) so if you got this guy to make a deal with someone similar who had printshops set up all over it would help everyone?

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Post by Grumskiz » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:54 pm

I think Lulu is just an online publisher with printing service. So my guess is they don't offer scanning service and that is probably the biggest task, especially if you're going for high quality.

I haven't asked Mr. Hutchins about this, but also thought to myself that digital copies of electronotes would be great.

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Post by Tim Stinchcombe » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:59 pm

This comes up on the Synth DIY mailing list from time-to-time. It took a bit of digging but I found this page on Bernie's site - I don't know if it is still linked from there (from the Synth DIY list link below, it dates from about 2003), but I suspect the main thrust of it still stands:

http://electronotes.netfirms.com/en200.html

It certainly goes some way to explaining why there is no set of PDFs available. (And for those curious, I found the link here.)

Tim

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Post by zamp » Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:38 pm

BugBrand wrote:I think there's been talk before about 'why doesn't someone scan them' - it would surely be quite a major task, but it'd be of great benefit to bernie (much easier to sell then) and everyone else. I do tend to prefer hard-copy, but I know many others wouldn't want the full collection in hard form.
I bought a copy of Bernie's Everything package back in 2008, scanned them all (including OCR of them), organized them a bit, and archived them for myself. At that time I sent Bernie a copy of it all on CD. He thanked me for them and since then I've noticed he put at least one of my scanned PDFs up on his site as a "free" document.

And removing the rusty staples was indeed the biggest part of the job. Unsticking the pages that didn't want to feed individually through my scanner and double-checking that every page got scanned was also a bit of a chore. But with a auto-feed scanner it really only took a few hours an evening for a week or so, not that big of a deal.

I won't share the scanned documents with anyone or sell them to anyone. They're Bernie Hutchins' property, not mine. I told Bernie he can do whatever he wants with the files I sent and that I have no ownership in the trivial, mechanical work of scanning them. While the scanned images in the PDFs of the documents range from very readable to a tough read (for some more faded pages), the OCR'd text that is also in the PDF documents hasn't been proofread and certainly contains many scanning/OCR errors. That might be preventing Bernie from doing too much with the PDFs of his documents.

Bernie continues to publish new ENs, AppNotes, and EWNs on his site. I count 9 new documents published by Bernie from the beginning of 2015 until today. See the Free and WebNotes pages at his site: http://electronotes.netfirms.com/ .

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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:52 pm

The stupid part of this whole thing is that making PDF documents is just as easy as copying documents, with the right machine. The copy machines we have at school will take a stack of papers, run it through just like you're making a copy, and then send a PDF of the stack to your email address -- you can even work with double-sided originals. Doing it this way, all of Electronotes could be converted to PDF in a day. I was seriously thinking of doing this with the Intellijel copy, but I just haven't had the time this summer (which has turned out to be the summer from hell, my second in a row, in fact). However, I still plan to do it. I will probably do it in digestible chunks by taking a smallish stack of Electronotes to school every day. Right now, I have the whole collection sitting in boxes in my garage, and I must confess that I'm not that enthused about rummaging through paper copies of that crap. If I had it all on my computer, I could index it, find stuff quickly, etc. It's just, who has the time?
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Post by 3vcos » Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:59 pm

Really? Post to AU is prohibitive? I call bullshit. Post on small things to AU isn't expensive. How much is postage?

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Post by zamp » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:08 pm

3vcos wrote:Really? Post to AU is prohibitive? I call bullshit. Post on small things to AU isn't expensive. How much is postage?
The everything pack from Bernie is really an impressive pile of paper that is shipped in three separate boxes. Here's some info http://electronotes.netfirms.com/foreignshipping.html on that from Bernie's site:
The Priority Flat Rate Boxes are US paper size (8.5 x 11 inches) by about 5.5
inches (14 cm) tall and weigh about 12 pounds. Keep this in mind if you have
problems with mail delivery. Note that a full box is actually an outstanding
rate for air mail. The everything package is three nearly-full boxes, and
we will almost always ship all three together. We will email you and you can
usually track them to your door.
That's almost 36 pounds of paper in three boxes.

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Post by 3vcos » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:12 pm

What you've posted is indeed a fact. I have the package, it's huge. You seemed to have missed the topic of the thread. The Music Engineers Handbook. I have this as well. It's a couple hundred pages at best and a couple pounds at best.

I think this fellow is looking to get something wonderful for nothing. Let's all support him!

zamp wrote:
3vcos wrote:Really? Post to AU is prohibitive? I call bullshit. Post on small things to AU isn't expensive. How much is postage?
The everything pack from Bernie is really an impressive pile of paper that is shipped in three separate boxes. Here's some info http://electronotes.netfirms.com/foreignshipping.html on that from Bernie's site:
The Priority Flat Rate Boxes are US paper size (8.5 x 11 inches) by about 5.5
inches (14 cm) tall and weigh about 12 pounds. Keep this in mind if you have
problems with mail delivery. Note that a full box is actually an outstanding
rate for air mail. The everything package is three nearly-full boxes, and
we will almost always ship all three together. We will email you and you can
usually track them to your door.
That's almost 36 pounds of paper in three boxes.

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Post by zamp » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:39 pm

3vcos wrote:You seemed to have missed the topic of the thread. The Music Engineers Handbook.
You're right, the MEH is not that large (376 pages but about half that number of pieces of paper). but from the subject (electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs) I thought he wanted the MEH, the preferred circuits collection (also not that big at 292 pages), and Electronotes. Of the three, Electronotes is the heavy piece.

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Post by andrewF » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:00 pm

I'm pretty sure I paid $330 for the 'everything set' shipped by seamail, that was 10 years ago. Looks like inflation has bitten judging by the current prices.
Anyway, it is worth it.

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Post by pugix » Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:37 pm

I bought the everything set and keep it in a bunch of three ring binders.

But I just found out that Bernie put a lot of PDFs online for free. Maybe you already knew.

http://electronotes.netfirms.com/free.htm
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Post by fma » Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:39 pm

I have the order page permanently open in a chrome tab and every week I think "I need to just get this" It pretty much has a 100% thumbs up from everyone who has gotten them.

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by wavecircle » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:42 pm

Does anyone know if everything is okay with Bernie? I have been advised to try to get hold of the whole lot but he isn't shipping to europe anymore or even taking orders. Did anything ever come about from the scanning for the archive into PDF? More than happy to buy the PDFs from him.
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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by devinw1 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:52 pm

It's too bad he doesn't sell them in E-format. The machines that are available at Kinkos even can scan stacks of loose paper at an insane speed....and scan both sides of each page. We have one at my office, and it is crazy fast.

In this day and age, mailing 35 lb boxes of papers around the world seems rather insane.

Edit: just perused the page and I think the answer is that the dude is 72+ years old and has reams of paper he is trying to get rid of. Fair enough. Perhaps somebody will take over some day when all the paper is sold and scan this stuff. I wouldn't mind paying $100 for a huge ass PDF of that.

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by The Real MC » Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:18 am

I met Bernie last summer to collect my package (he lives an hour from me). Bernie is not well, and he doesn't have the energy to digitally scan the package. He still ships orders.
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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by deepblackjoe@gmail.com » Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:36 am

I tried to order the PCC/MEH collection from Mr Hutchins about two weeks ago, and he said he was done with sending paper copies of anything and emphatically said no PDFs of these could be obtained thru him.

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by BugBrand » Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:47 am

Each time the idea of scanning has come up, say on the SDIY mailing list, Bernie has seemed pretty sceptical about the idea of using a scanning machine -- maybe he's just heard several people say they could do it 'easily' and then it has still never happened... I agree, it sounds do-able.
Ah, or maybe another issue was brought up with the idea of converting such a scan into something properly searchable - ie. image to text conversion - as I think any processor would get confused by formulae etc - too much risk of errors creeping in. But I personally don't think it'd be bad simply having image scans.

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Re:

Post by synkrotron » Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:59 am

pugix wrote:
Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:37 pm
But I just found out that Bernie put a lot of PDFs online for free. Maybe you already knew.
Thanks for the heads-up :) :tu:

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by deepblackjoe@gmail.com » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:00 am

I guess I was mainly interested in the"core collection" of MEH/PCC & builders Guide, paper copies. I would gladly pay to print them off myself, hopefully someday will find a way.. . Fat chance finding them secondhand I bet.

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by wackelpeter » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:34 am

wavecircle wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:42 pm
Does anyone know if everything is okay with Bernie? I have been advised to try to get hold of the whole lot but he isn't shipping to europe anymore or even taking orders. Did anything ever come about from the scanning for the archive into PDF? More than happy to buy the PDFs from him.
Apart from private or health issues, i think it makes not much sense right now, sending such large piles of paper overseas. First of all the postage costs have gone up, then you have less reliability with the cargo companies in term of time. So i wouldn't want to deal with a ton of consumers complaining while their shipments didn't arrive in time, where they are, etc. Also one might not forget that shipment to europe is heavy costs, the consumer most likely has to pay tax and toll duty fees, which can add up a lot...

I personally would prefer to have them in a physical form in paper, additionally on a harddrive might not hurt. But generally i prefer paper, especially as my last hard drive from my notebook crashed and tons of documents i've collected over the last 4 years are no vanished... Well at some point i might find them all over the net, but it will take additional time and some sites may be down meanwhile.

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