electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by KSS » Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:08 pm

mskala wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:01 pm
The claim by Bernie Hutchins that scanning Electronotes would cause the owner of the scanner to own the copyright is also not how copyright works; copyright comes from creation, not format conversion. And that claim is one of the significant obstacles to the possibility of Electronotes being scanned.
:agree:

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by ricko » Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:45 pm

EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:08 pm
the modern equivalent is sitting on muffs reading what people are working on now. all the arduino projects from 2005 are right into the bin. ... I am still not the same person as blue lantern,... maybe people should start dumping schematics before they go out of business. most of the open source projects on the forum are started by younger people asking for help. ...
I agree, and with two comments.

First, lets not forget here are intermediate positions of openness. There is a difference between a production design and a proof of concept design, and it is the latter that we most need to have out there so that methods are known. And if not a schematic, then at least some words. For my little modules, if they have anything unusual, I have put out a simplified/preliminary circuit as Public Domain and/or a written theory of operation and/or response charts. (The actual schematic gets emailed to purchasers.) So this is enough that any designer could roll their own readily, or a maintainer can figure out what is going on fairly readily, but not enough that a cloner could just replicate in an afternoon.

I guess I want a world with less borrowing/imitation and more stealing, in the sense of that saying of Stravinksy / Picasso / Faulkner / Jobs.

Second, I am not sure that Blue Lantern is Blue Lantern either. IP rights, as monopolies, are a dodgy concept that are not best for innovation always (as the Open Source and Open Standards movements have shown) and partly a French/American cultural imposition. And if considered as a method where people from one country force people from another country to pay for ideas that they would have had in due time by themselves, they can be considered a way of keeping the odds stacked against developing countries. If someone (I am not saying this is Blue Lantern's view, never corresponded with him, just my observations from having lived in a Chinese speaking country for several years) sincerely thinks there is no moral, economic, cultural benefit from supposed IP, indeed thinks they are a ultimately a racist conspiracy (this goes too far), who could blame them for not caring much about assertions of ownership, anymore than claims of ownership of the air or sea? Information wants to go free. Also, the more that people try to lard on extra "rights" to the designs of the elders and saints, out of kindness and respect--more that even our IP laws allow-- and claim a moral high ground for this theft from the ideosphere, the more that people on the wrong side of the deal will just call bullshit on those supposed rights.

In the case of Electronotes, Dr Hutchins is an elderly man, and if he is unable to carry on and sees no need to just give away his life's work and stock to strangers, that probably cannot be helped, frustrating as it is, and certainly not helped by criticism.

To me, a good outcome would be

* Cornell Library takes the collection of originals (or Georgia Tech!)
* Google puts it up on Google Scholar
* if anyone has a copyright challenge (dubious in the case if people who contributed articles knowingly), they can put up a DMCA challenge on the pages in question
* someone in North America buys up any stock of printed pages, and starts selling those, until stocks run out, if the collection is coherent.
* someone buys the masthead and starts putting out new issues, concentrating on analog design only.

Rick
fricko.home.blog

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by loki » Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:51 pm

mskala wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:01 pm

The suggestion from loki in this thread that people who contributed ideas also own a copyright to Electronotes is not how copyright works; copyright applies to the words, not the ideas.
I didn't suggest that people contributed ideas, I stated and know that people contributed written material that Bernie published. They own copyright of what they wrote. As a published author you can bet I know what copyright law says about this. A paying publisher typically buys first world wide publication rights but the copyright is inherently the author's.

You apparently have opinions about what was in Electronotes without having read any significant amount of them. You would recognize some of the names: Dave Rossum, Ian Fritz, Terry Mikulic, and many more.
Last edited by loki on Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by mskala » Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:21 pm

loki wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:51 pm
I didn't suggest that people contributed ideas, I stated and know that people contributed written material that Bernie published. They own copyright of what they wrote. As a published author you can bet I know what copyright law says about this. A paying publisher typically buys first world wide publication rights but the copyright is inherently the author's.
I'm sorry I misunderstood your position. I agree that to the extent there are materials written by others in Electronotes, Bernie Hutchins does not naturally own the copyright to those materials.

However, your comment about what I "apparently have opinions about" is ignorant and inappropriate and I hope you'll remove it.

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:12 am

KSS wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:22 pm
@EYG: Nearly everything in your reply is incorrect. Cesyg is still in business.
are you sure about that? or you want to have a semantic argument? he sells parts now. there was a time when he announced that he closed the business. I got the first announcement. you can not buy the LFO new. there are no new LFO's. coupled with the announcement from Niel that he is closing the business, I think it is an error anyone can make. I would still argue this is like anyone who claims to be anything that they are not doing. he is not making modules even though you claim he still has a business making modules.


KSS wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:22 pm
Old people -like me- spend hours each day helping young and old! here on MW. And as loki said, Electronotes was never, and still isn't, a project driven by financial reward.
I can never be correct speaking in absolutes, I try to assess trends that obfuscate complexity. you do help here a lot. I don't want to call you old because I don't want to be accused of being ageist again.

electronotes lasted this long because of the financial reward anything else is bullshit. how many tons of free paper did you give away? how much did bernie give away? he was selling it. if he was going to dump thousands of dollars into charity it would have ran out of steam a long time ago. it may not be profitable but the subsidy makes it possible to do what you love.
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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by neil.johnson » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:52 pm

KSS wrote: @EYG: Nearly everything in your reply is incorrect. Cesyg is still in business.
EATyourGUITAR wrote: are you sure about that? or you want to have a semantic argument? he sells parts now. there was a time when he announced that he closed the business. I got the first announcement. you can not buy the LFO new. there are no new LFO's. coupled with the announcement from Niel that he is closing the business, I think it is an error anyone can make. I would still argue this is like anyone who claims to be anything that they are not doing. he is not making modules even though you claim he still has a business making modules.
Wow - infamy....

If you're still interested in the DuaLFO: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=192244
And you can find other schematics here: https://www.njohnson.co.uk/index.php?menu=2&submenu=0

Please don't make random assertions about my affairs thank you.

Neil
Random ramblings :: http://www.njohnson.co.uk
SSI parts and more :: https://www.cesyg.co.uk

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:12 pm

Sorry Niel. I learned my lesson. It won't happen again. I wish you all the best for you and your business.
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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by The Real MC » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:56 pm

mskala wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:01 pm
copyright comes from creation, not format conversion.
Are you THAT ignorant on copyright law?!?

Copyright DOES apply to format conversion.

Publishers have won copyright infringement lawsuits against websites who hosted PDFs of printed books.

Commercial music copyrights extend across different formats, from the vinyl record to the cassette to the 8-track to the CD to the mp3s on iTunes... it's called "mechanical rights".

Commercial entertainment copyrights extend across different formats, from the theater film to VHS to Beta to DVD to BluRay to streaming services...

By definition, copyright protects the author of a work from unauthorized COPIES of their work - FORMAT IS NOT DEFINED IN COPYRIGHT LAW.
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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by mskala » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:22 pm

Read the words you quoted. Copyright comes from creation. The copyright bundle includes a right to restrict copying, but the point relevant to this discussion - because it's the point on which Bernie Hutchins is mistaken - is that format conversion does not cause a new copyright to come into existence.

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by thetwlo » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:53 pm

mskala wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:22 pm
Read the words you quoted. Copyright comes from creation.
duh.

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by Whelm » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:15 pm

The Real MC wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:56 pm
mskala wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:01 pm
copyright comes from creation, not format conversion.
Are you THAT ignorant on copyright law?!?

Copyright DOES apply to format conversion.

Publishers have won copyright infringement lawsuits against websites who hosted PDFs of printed books.

Commercial music copyrights extend across different formats, from the vinyl record to the cassette to the 8-track to the CD to the mp3s on iTunes... it's called "mechanical rights".

Commercial entertainment copyrights extend across different formats, from the theater film to VHS to Beta to DVD to BluRay to streaming services...

By definition, copyright protects the author of a work from unauthorized COPIES of their work - FORMAT IS NOT DEFINED IN COPYRIGHT LAW.
I don't think what you've written is pertinent to mskala's point. In fact, what you've said actually supports his argument, if I'm not mistaken.

The fact that copyright is maintained across formats is entirely mskala's point: that a person or organization does not obtain copyrights to content merely by having hosted or converted it from one format to another. IE. the concern that a university or printing shop would gain a stake in the IP of documents their machines had been used to copy is not a serious concern.

Hosting a PDF of copyrighted material online is to distribute protected content without authorization. That's a pretty different context than the one being discussed.

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by KSS » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:30 pm

:agree:

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:05 pm

in fact it is so close to the edge that it went to the supreme court in 2014

http://www.firstventurelegal.com/2014/0 ... nt-claims/
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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by nimaid » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:37 pm

Hello! I am desperately trying to get my hands on a copy of MEH and PCC. I decided to try my luck today and send him an email:
Hello! I am an EE that has recently gotten into designing Eurorack modules, and I desperately want to buy the Musical Engineer's Handbook and the Builder's Guide and Preferred Circuits Collection. However, I noticed on your site that you are currently not accepting orders. I imagine this is because of the current pandemic and its implications on shipping, or otherwise a lack of availability on your end to fulfil orders.

However, I noticed that the user zamp on the MuffWiggler forum mentioned they bought your package in 2008, digitized them into PDF documents, and then sent them to you on a CD, which you thanked them for. (viewtopic.php?p=1961518#p1961518)

If possible, I would be willing to pay full price for either the printed or PDF versions of the Musical Engineer's Handbook ($54) and the Builder's Guide and Preferred Circuits Collection ($39). In fact, I would prefer the PDF version, as it allows me to CTRL-F, but I will eagerly and happily pay for any format that you are willing to provide me.

If you are unable to help me at this time, would you be willing to give me an ETA as to when I can place an order?

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and thank you for putting together these resources!
Ella Jameson
He replied actually very fast:
Sorry - but I can't help.
I had a CD once but probably lost in when I retired from Cornell. No idea who "zamp" is.
It is very unlikely I will resume business. Bernie
I've sent him another email asking if I can donate $100 to him and his family to get his permission to try and get a copy elsewhere. We'll see what he says.

If I do get permission to hunt down MEH/PCC, is there anyone here who would be willing to hook me up? I would prefer PDFs, but will absolutely pay for shipping/scanning if you have a copy. I could even scan your copy and then send it back to you if you'd like. Again, this is only about MEH and PCC, not "everything". Like I'll take care of it all for you, I just want a copy by any means necessary.

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by KSS » Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:05 pm

Based on his first reply, I'm hoping someone has already archived EVERYTHING that's on the Electronotes site.

Prayers and well-wishes to and for Bernie and his family.

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by nimaid » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:38 pm

Alright! So! Yeah! Most of the things you guys said about Bernie's mannerisms in this thread check out. I honestly and truly think that the only legitimate way anyone will get a copy is if they buy it used. This IS legal and Bernie said so himself. Here, I'll share the rest of our interactions so far, picking up where my last post left off:

Me:
Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear that! I truly hope you and your family are managing through this crisis. These are crazy times, and I wish you all the best of luck.

I really do want to thank you for your contributions to the world of electronic music, your name is legendary among modern analog synth enthusiasts, and MEH has often been referred to as the "Synth Bible".

I have just one more question, if you have the time for it: Can I make a donation to you and your family ($100), and in exchange, get your permission to try and get a copy from someone who already has a copy of MEH and PCC? Like I said above, your work is legendary, and I would love to show my appreciation (even for just the free materials on your website). I also desperately want a copy of MEH/PCC for my own personal use. The reason I ask for your explicit permission to try and get a copy elsewhere is that the modern analog synth community respects you immensely, and would never give a copy to someone without your permission. All I'm asking for is one email I can forward to someone as proof you are OK with me getting a copy. I can donate via PayPal, or however is most convenient for you.

Thank you again, and stay safe,
Ella Jameson
Bernie:
No. It doesn't work that way:
http://electronotes.netfirms.com/ENWN57.pdf

Why not just look for a used copy?
Me:
Bernie,

Thank you for your time and patience, I really appreciate it. I've read the document and the documents linked from it, and I think I understand much more about the whole IP/copyright situation.

I would absolutely love for someone to provide me their used copy! I may have found a couple of people who are willing to part with it, but they will not do it unless you are OK with it. People in the community really do respect you, and a vast majority of them don't want to redistribute your work in any way unless you are on record as allowing it.

Could you please answer some short yes/no questions? Nobody will give me a copy otherwise, and I also want to be certain I am respecting your IP/wishes:

Will you allow someone else to give/sell/transfer their used copy to me?
Seeing as you are unlikely to start selling them again, would you allow someone to make one (1) copy of theirs to give/sell to me (Ella Jameson) for personal use?
Am I correct in my understanding that any digital copies are unable to be shared/sold/transferred from the digitizer in any way, due to copyright complications?
Do you accept donations? I really am grateful for the free materials you've provided for everyone.

Thank you again for your time. Stay safe,
Ella Jameson
Bernie:
1. Will you allow someone else to give/sell/transfer their used copy to me?



ACCORDING TO LAW, AS APPLIED TO ALL PERSONS, SUCH A SALE WOULD SEEM LEGAL, PROVIDED NO COPY (PAPER OR DIGITAL) WERE RETAINED BY THE ORIGINAL BUYER (NO ADDITIONAL “OWNER”)



2. Seeing as you are unlikely to start selling them again, would you allow someone to make one (1) copy of theirs to give/sell to me (Ella Jameson) for personal use?

OBVIOUSLY - NO.

3. Am I correct in my understanding that any digital copies are unable to be shared/sold/transferred from the digitizer in any way, due to copyright complications?

NO LEGAL DIGITAL SCANS (OTHER THAN ONE MADE/RETAINED BY AN ORIGINAL BUYER) EXIST, AND EVERYONE KNOWS THIS. IF I WERE TO “AUTHORIZE” EVEN ONE FILE, I WOULD EXPECT A WIDESPREAD PIRATED VERSION “BEFORE THE SUN SETS” (AS ONE sdiy USER OPINED).



4. Do you accept donations? I really am grateful for the free materials you've provided for everyone.

NO WE DO NOT.
(I can forward this as proof that it came from his email address if requested for a good reason)

So here's what I know is true (probably):
  • Bernie owns the IP (including copyright) and can restrict how the content is copied and redistributed.
  • I have also been emailing another enthusiast who has made a PDF copy for their personal use, as allowed by copyright/IP law
  • Bernie is VERY opposed to the very idea of a PDF for lots of reasons, just look at that PDF he linked above.
  • It is totally legal for the owner of a copy to sell their copy for money, as long as they DO NOT KEEP A COPY in either physical or digital form.
  • Bernie isn't likely to resume business.
  • Bernie still cares a LOT about his IP and pirated copies. (Understandable)
  • Bernie isn't receptive to... really everything I asked him about.
Okay! So! I don't want to get into the semantics of if Bernie is 100% correct in his legal arguments, I just want to give money to someone for a dang copy of the MEH and PCC, man. Should I make a thread in Music Tech DIY, or is there a better place for wanted requests? (PS: I am willing to pay well for your copy... this is important to me for several reasons.)

If I can buy a copy from someone, I am definitely going to scan it to preserve it (that dead tree it's printed on will fall apart someday), but only for myself. If there ever comes a day where the copyright holder wants the files released, or the copyright is no longer valid, I will upload them to archive.org and tell everyone about it before the sun sets. But until then, I will keep the files securely backed up in a cloud drive only I have access to, and will be unable and unwilling to share them. Sorry, but I do respect Bernies wishes. (Also, he's probably right about the legal stuff... mostly...)

Look, guys, Bernie is really, really not going to be of any help in getting a copy. Please leave him alone, don't message him anymore unless his website says to. I've shared his responses here in hopes that he won't have to repeat himself endlessly. He is unwilling to sell a copy, he is steadfast in his disapproval PDF copies. Don't waste yours and his time.
Last edited by nimaid on Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by nimaid » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:46 pm

KSS wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:05 pm
Based on his first reply, I'm hoping someone has already archived EVERYTHING that's on the Electronotes site.

Prayers and well-wishes to and for Bernie and his family.
I have indeed! I used HTTrack to mirror the site. It wasn't straightforward, as he uses PDFs for half of his pages... You do what you can with the tools you've got I guess. Either way, I now have a folder with all of the free PDFs linked on the free page, and a lot of other stuff on his site too (maybe all of it).

Here are the settings I used:

URL list (may be incomplete...):

Code: Select all

http://electronotes.netfirms.com/
http://electronotes.netfirms.com/free.htm
http://electronotes.netfirms.com/faqpdf.pdf
http://electronotes.netfirms.com/ORDERING.pdf
http://electronotes.netfirms.com/friends.html
http://electronotes.netfirms.com/PricesShipping.html
http://electronotes.netfirms.com/oldindex.html
http://electronotes.netfirms.com/news.html
http://electronotes.netfirms.com/UD.html
http://electronotes.netfirms.com/nottva.html
http://electronotes.netfirms.com/en200.html
Scan rules:

Code: Select all

-*
+http://electronotes.netfirms.com/
+http://electronotes.netfirms.com/*
+electronotes.netfirms.com/
+electronotes.netfirms.com/*
+https://electronotes.netfirms.com/
+https://electronotes.netfirms.com/*
+*.gif +*.jpg +*.jpeg +*.png +*.tif +*.bmp
+*.zip +*.tar +*.tgz +*.gz +*.rar +*.z +*.exe
+*.mov +*.mpg +*.mpeg +*.avi +*.asf +*.mp3 +*.mp2 +*.rm +*.wav +*.vob +*.qt +*.vid +*.ac3 +*.wma +*.wmv
+*.pdf
Please, let's have multiple people take backups for redundancy! And if you find better scan rules or more URLs, post them please! :)

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by nimaid » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:32 pm

Hey guys! So regularjackson was kind enough to sell me his copies of MEH/PCC, and a bunch of other electronotes. They will be here in about a week. Given the discussion in this thread up to this point, I figured you all would be interested in my preservation plans:

The first thing I am going to do is prepare MEH/PCC for scanning. Let me re-iterate: I cannot and will not share these with anyone. However, I will do my level best to preserve them while restricting access to them exclusively to myself, as is allowed by copyright law. I've talked with my go-to all-in-one print shop and asked about scanning and copyrighted format conversion. They said (paraphrasing) "You buy the rights to the digitized copy from us when you pay for your order. We can save it for future printing if you'd like, but we do not own any part of it once the sale is done. But if the content of the scans is copyrighted, then that scan can only be legally owned by the current owner of the original copy." So it looks like as long as I don't share scans/duplications, and as long as I do not retain any copies if I sell the original, I am in the clear to make an archival backup for myself.

I will probably not scan the other electronotes, because the MEH and PCC are already going to cost a ton.

After the MEH+PCC are digitized, I will back them up with 100% PAR2 redundancy on a cloud drive, a micro-SD card, and a solid-state drive only I have access to. Then, I will be putting each page of the MEH and the PCC into an archival sleeve, to help slow the degradation of the paper over time. These sleeves will be placed in archival binders, in their original order. These binders will be stored in a waterproof archival case, and that in a fireproof lockbox, with the SSD and micro-SD card. I am storing that in my closet, so you could say "on-site". Everything for that process is actually pretty cheap (for just MEH+PCC), except the fireproof lockbox, which I am likely to get a few months after everything is stored safely in its waterproof case. And BELIEVE me, I have the motivation. (If the thought of this historical work being lost forever isn't enough, the sunk cost fallacy is!) Sliding hundreds of pages into envelopes while listening to music or watching YouTube sounds pretty zen if you ask me.:)

Again, I am not willing to extend these efforts to the rest of the electronotes. I'd love for EVERYTHING to be preserved like I said above but... that's just way too much for me. I will likely just store small bundles of them in archival folders in waterproof archival cases, in the lockbox.

I will likely print off "working copies" of some pages/sections that I want to mark up without ruining the backup, and for parts I reference all the time. For most things, however, I'll just pull out the archived bound version or read from the PDF on my Kindle. These would be discarded or destroyed if I were to transfer possesion of the original paper copy.

It is possible one day I will give this archival version to a good home, but seeing as I can not retain any copies at all once I do that, it probably won't be for a while. I would mainly be interested in organizations that could take ownership of and preserve "that copy" of it without infringing on Bernie's IP. (i.e. Not going to make copies or republish/redistribute in any way unless granted explicit case-by-case permission by the IP holder.) But IDK, I'll probably have to reach out to some preservation-oriented organizations for legal advice, if that ever even happens.

Worst case, I'm aiming to keep these papers and scans pristine until it enters the public domain (hopefully not too soon, take care Bernie!) or the IP holder allows copies to be freely made and distributed (don't hold your breath).

And in case you didn't catch it above:
I CANNOT AND WILL NOT SHARE THE SCANS WITH ANYONE, THEY ARE A PRIVATE BACKUP OF MY ORIGINAL COPY.
I just figured some of the folks here would sleep easier at night knowing there's at least one copy that is being preserved somewhat well, even if it is private. I'll post pictures once I've got some of the MEH/PCC in the archival binders.

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:19 am

I must say that I really don't understand why Bernie is so insistent that no one can make a copy of Electronotes if he is no longer willing to sell Electronotes. The only possible argument for not allowing copying is that it compromises his ability to profit from Electronotes, but he obviously has no interest in profiting further from Electronotes. At this point, it would seem that he is only interested in Electronotes not being read by anyone who has not already bought it.

I don't understand, given the fact that he apparently has no interest in continuing to sell Electronotes, why he doesn't simply transfer the copyright to someone who does, or, if that is too much to ask, license the copyright to someone else while still retaining ownership of it.
Composting the drones will ensure the survival of the elite.

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by BWBKc6VyUr » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:27 am

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:19 am
I must say that I really don't understand why Bernie is so insistent that no one can make a copy of Electronotes if he is no longer willing to sell Electronotes.
That

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:53 am

nimaid: you are asking for permission to buy a used book. in the united states you do not need permission to buy a used book. the only time you would need permission to buy a used book is if the seller either does not have the right to distribute or the seller is not covered by the first sale doctrine. anyone who owns a copy legally purchased can sell it to you but they must delete any personal use backup copies at that time. Bernie is not at all crazy. he knows the law %100. he answered you by showing you the law. he is not against the second sale, he is against licensing new deals to third parties.
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DMR
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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by DMR » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:39 am

There are a few libraries in the United States that have the MEH, PCC, and at least some Electronotes, so I'm not sure there is a risk of the content being lost. Bernie had apparently allowed an electronic copy of the MEH to be provided to students of this analog design class at Clemson last year, so though of course it's not available to those outside the class: https://clemson.instructure.com/courses ... eed-to-buy

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by galanter2 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:10 pm

I’m not saying this is Bernie’s motivation, but upon his death I believe the copyright would pass on to his estate just like any other property. For some that would be reason enough to protect a copyright for materials not currently in press.

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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:32 am

galanter2 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:10 pm
I’m not saying this is Bernie’s motivation, but upon his death I believe the copyright would pass on to his estate just like any other property. For some that would be reason enough to protect a copyright for materials not currently in press.
exactly. I was thinking that he is clutching his copyright so that his wife can sell it. if he starts chipping away at it now there will be nothing for her. he probably has a sellout number written in a letter to be read when the time is right.
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Re: electronotes/musical engineer's handbook/pcc pdfs

Post by loki » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:09 pm

I'm puzzled that some of you persist in the notion that Electronotes, MEH, and PCC has some economic value. It has some cultural value because it documents the early stages of the Synth DIY movement. If Bernie donated his materials to a University they would lie in storage, at best, because it takes time and money to conserve a collection of papers. I have a friend who worked at the Harry Ransom Center in Austin and he talked about the sad fate of collections that were donated without accompanying funds to conserve them.

But economic value, no! How many copies a year do you think Bernie has been selling? If you think the MEH has value, outline a new version and submit a proposal to a publisher. How big do you think the potential market is? How many copies can you sell at what price? A good tech writer makes at least $40 or $50 an hour in industry. How many hours would be needed for research and writing time?

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