[Project] Music Thing Radio Music 4hp sample player

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spaceludes
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Post by spaceludes » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:31 pm

HELP!
I completed the Radio Music build only to realize I was supposed to load the firmware before soldering the Teensy to the board... and of course I soldered the Teensy directly to the board without the connectors.

Now I'm realizing in order to load anything to the Teensy, I would need to cut the power lead from the USB, which is face-down against the board and quite inaccessible.

Can anyone suggest a workaround? I'm desperate! :bang:

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CeeJay
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Post by CeeJay » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:26 pm

You don‘t need to cut the power trace on the Teensy. That is actually only meaningful for people who want to update the Teensy while it is powered by the Eurorack power supply.
So just take it out of your modular and connect it with your computer. It will be powered by USB then.

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spaceludes
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Post by spaceludes » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:57 pm

CeeJay wrote:You don‘t need to cut the power trace on the Teensy. That is actually only meaningful for people who want to update the Teensy while it is powered by the Eurorack power supply.
So just take it out of your modular and connect it with your computer. It will be powered by USB then.
Thanks for replying CeeJay.
I can't just take it out since It's already soldered to the board (Teensy soldered to male header which is soldered to the back board). I removed the female socket as one of the options suggested in the build doc.

I can still remove the back board from the module, will the Teensy allow me to upload the firmware in this state without plugging in the modular power? I haven't tried.

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synthetek
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Post by synthetek » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:21 am

You don't need to take the teensy out, just take the module out of the case or disconnect it from the power supply in your case before you program it.

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spaceludes
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Post by spaceludes » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:33 am

synthetek wrote:You don't need to take the teensy out, just take the module out of the case or disconnect it from the power supply in your case before you program it.
Okay that's great news, thanks synthetek. I'll give it a try tonight after work.

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CeeJay
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Post by CeeJay » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:12 pm

That‘s what I meant. So I will explain again:

Tennsy with trace cut:
Radio Music module have to be powered by Eurorack power supply while you plug it to your computer via USB.
(This is easier for e.g. firmware developer, because it can always be connected to the Eurorack case and power supply for testing).

Teensy without trace cut:
Radio Music module must not be powered by Eurorack power supply while you plug it to your computer via USB.
(You have to disconnect it from your Eurorack case and power supply, else it would be connected to Eurorack power supply and USB power supply at the same time. That could lead to problems, such as return current flowing to the computers USB port).

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synthetek
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Post by synthetek » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:33 pm

I usually don't cut the trace since most of the time I have to take a module out of the case to program it anyway.

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spaceludes
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Post by spaceludes » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:48 pm

CeeJay wrote:That‘s what I meant. So I will explain again:

Tennsy with trace cut:
Radio Music module have to be powered by Eurorack power supply while you plug it to your computer via USB.
(This is easier for e.g. firmware developer, because it can always be connected to the Eurorack case and power supply for testing).

Teensy without trace cut:
Radio Music module must not be powered by Eurorack power supply while you plug it to your computer via USB.
(You have to disconnect it from your Eurorack case and power supply, else it would be connected to Eurorack power supply and USB power supply at the same time. That could lead to problems, such as return current flowing to the computers USB port).
Cool, I guess I read this right after I completed the build and assumed the worst. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

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Post by AntonWoldhek » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:36 am

[edit] solved.
Ey Folks.
I'm having an issue with my radio music build.

Symptom: when turned on the LED's slow cycle. from one to another, and occasionally start to go off really quickly for a short burst.
I put on the latest firmware from polyfather.
No sound comes out.

I was comatose or something at one point during the build because i put one of the hearders on the wrong way. when desoldering it i broke at least one pad. (from the third led, fixed it by adding a wire from the other pcb to the pin). I'm mentining it because when i opened the brd in eagle viewer it didnt view properly. So im not sure which pin should end up where and i havent been able to verify for sure if no other pins' were broken.

I'm hoping somebody can give me a clue based on the symptoms mentioned above.

THe teensy will still flash so i didnt bork that one. I did not cut the power trace because i want to be able to flash it without it being powered in the case.

[edit] solved it. So the reason was that indeed as i thought my clumsy ness with the header was the fundamental cause.
It turned out that one of the connections on it (to the third sd card pin) was flaky. I hot wired it from the control pcb to the ic pcb with a simple wire :)

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Post by NS4W » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:42 am

windspirit wrote:Quote:
Hey I am having an issue with the new firmware, I have it on one-shot and sometimes it just starts triggering things super fast even when there is nothing plugged in. All of the other controls react normally. This never happened when I was using the stock firmware. Any suggestions?
I'm having the same behaviour on my Radio Music, like audio rate tourettes!
I´ve tried different SD cards, but that makes no difference.

Another strange thing is that files in folder 14 and 15 won't play, only a short chirpy sound (that can be pitched, but is not one of my SDcard sounds). Do you experience this as well wind spirit? It is the same sound that comes if there are no files in the folders. So for some reason the module has stopped reading files in the last folders. I have tried my files in the other folders and there they play just fine.

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Post by tito_tunes » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:42 pm

I was having that rapid retriggering issue and fixed it by replacing the opamp. I had been running it without the extra resistor fix and I think that might have fried the opamp.
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Post by tito_tunes » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:44 pm

Anyone else using the loopdivider firmware? I love it and have build my live set around it, however I'm having an issue where with longish loops (4 bars) it outputs a double trigger when restarting the loop. This causes my sequencers to skip a step and get out of phase. Is there anything that can be done?
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Radio Music Station sequencing issue

Post by henrry » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:36 am

Hello.

I m having an issue while sequencing the Stations of the Radio M. (set on Loop playback = 0 (one shot sample playing)) with the Stillson hammer mk2. I tried different options to see if I could find any workaround but I m not totally satisfied with the half solutions I found. I just would like to program drum patterns and have a different sample playing whenever I set a different cv in every specific step I choose.

What happens is that for each step played, the triggered sample corresponds to the previous step's CV ...

It seems like people face this same problem with the Tiptop Audio ONE when the sequencer generates slightly unsynced Gate and CV. So Tiptop A. implemented a delay feature on the Trig or CV In to troubleshoot this.

Is some similar solution possible with the Radio Music or may this feature be implemented any time soon on a next firmware update?

Thanx

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Post by gnomenthusiast » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:28 am

Hi all,

Built the thonk kit, no drama and it's working.

There's a small issue, which I'm not understanding (or there is something I need to do to the SD to sort.

My understanding was that each sample would continue to play when you changed stations (so that when you change back to a station, time had advanced the amount you were on a different station) if that makes sense.

That's not what mine is doing, the sample will change when you turn the station knob, but each station will start from the beginning each time it is selected.

Thanks in advance for any help!

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Post by henrry » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:03 pm

gnomenthusiast wrote:
My understanding was that each sample would continue to play when you changed stations (so that when you change back to a station, time had advanced the amount you were on a different station) if that makes sense.

That's not what mine is doing, the sample will change when you turn the station knob, but each station will start from the beginning each time it is selected.
Actually each time a station starts the beginning point is set by the Start knob position (depending on how you did set its behaviour in the SETTINGS.TXT file.
Otherwise the Start knob works as a pitch knob.)

Also, the CV and Knobs positions can be set differently, taking theirs value only after a trigger or immediately (so triggering the sample), as far as I remember (because I tend to stick to one setting for a long time for one specific use).

By no means will you have different samples advancing in time once they've been triggered in some kind of background memory or time counting memory relating to the start position.

For generating this effect, if it's important to you, I feel like you should set the Start knob totally counterclockwise and feed the Start CV imput with some slow rising envelope with the setting of CV start immediate = 0 in the SETTINGS.TXT

Normaly this envelope should go from 0 to 5V in a duration equal to your sample duration.

Hope this may help.
Cheers.

For this to work fine, the samples length should be of similar or same lenght.

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Post by henrry » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:17 pm

The envelope's attack should also be linear I think. Otherwise you will need to set the curve carefully with a module allowing you to do so like the Math, the Function or the wmd ssf mini slew.

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Post by batchas » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:54 pm

gnomenthusiast wrote:My understanding was that each sample would continue to play when you changed stations (so that when you change back to a station, time had advanced the amount you were on a different station) if that makes sense.

That's not what mine is doing
henrry wrote:By no means will you have different samples advancing in time once they've been triggered in some kind of background memory or time counting memory relating to the start position.
I think what gnomenthusiast means is what the first firmware version used to do, as a radio (hence the name of the module), rather than a sample payer with pitch and so on.

From github:
"Like real radio stations, the files continue to play in the background - they don't re-trigger each time you select a new station."

Also "v1.2 and above: Looping=0 also disables the radio system. In normal use, the files appear to 'play in the background' as you skip between channels. With looping=0, this is disabled. Every time you move to a channel, it starts from the position set by the start control. This is more useful for drum-style sample triggering."

Means like henrry said check the setting.txt text file on the SD card. I guess looping is set to 0 and should be set to 1 (sorry no time to verify right now on github/in manual if other variables involved, need to go).

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Post by NS4W » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:18 am

I'm now dealing with the noise floor issues of the module, it helps a bit to put the trimmer all the way down.

Persisting issues with all my four RMs using the latest firmware with one shot wavs and pitch activated:

- SD cards (SanDisk HC 10) get fried from time to time and cannot be read afterwards. Getting expensive in the long run...

- In pitch mode when I have an LFO controlling the pitch, the modulation signal itself is audible on the output, even if nothing is playing. Turning the start/pitch pot also make this noise. Especially audible in headphones.

- The two or three last folders only play a single pitched noise instead of acessing the files there.

- Audio rate firing of samples glitch. (Might be fixed if I add the 100K resistor between C4 as suggested above)


I have enough power and it happens in different cases.

:deadbanana: :omg:

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Post by batchas » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:51 am

NS4W wrote:- The two or three last folders only play a single pitched noise instead of acessing the files there.
Check folder number or format of the audio files in these folders on the card, cause this will be the cause why they don't play.

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Post by Monobass » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:47 pm

NS4W wrote:- SD cards (SanDisk HC 10) get fried from time to time and cannot be read afterwards. Getting expensive in the long run...

I have enough power and it happens in different cases.
There are a couple of thousand Radio Musics out there now, have you considered the issue with this specific problem could be with whatever other device you are plugging the SD cards into?
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Post by batchas » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:45 pm

NS4W wrote:- SD cards (SanDisk HC 10) get fried from time to time and cannot be read afterwards. Getting expensive in the long run...
I know by experience a Teensy can get fried, but I didn't even know a SD card could get fried, made some research and saw that this happens on phones and so on... weird!

Pers. I never heard about SanDisk HC 10, but myself I buy ScanDisk HC1, 16GB and never had any issue, nor negative feedback from wigglers who bought the Radio Music modules I did for the BugBrand system using these cards.

When I ever had an "issue" related to a card, it was because of a bad audio format, but the card was always fine.

To troubleshoot this it is important to know what is "from time to time" and in which circumstance exactly. If it happens after plugging a specific signal into the module, if it happens after you upload new samples on the card, after power on, or totally randomly etc. Otherway it's gonna be very difficult to find a solution. Expect if other users have the same issue of course, which I did never see till now in this thread.

Did you check the soldering points where the card holder is fixed? These are so tiny, maybe there's a short there or some cold joint or somethin? A tiny piece of metal touching 2 contacts in the inside? I'd check this kind of thing.

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Post by NS4W » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:16 am

Monobass wrote: There are a couple of thousand Radio Musics out there now, have you considered the issue with this specific problem could be with whatever other device you are plugging the SD cards into?
Well, of course, in an Eurorack system it gets complex pretty quick so its hard to know what is causing it. Until now I just discover bricked cards when I've turned on the system. My pc is not causing it, and the cards are branded, supposedly of good quality.


The folder file problem was partially solved by having less files in each folder, with 45 as suggested in the projects GitHub, I still have this behaviour in folder 15 though :hmm:

I'm still curious about others noise experiences. Do you also get audible artifacts when wiggling the start pot with the latest firmware with pitching on. I get it with both LFO modulation and turning the pot by hand. (I also get it when pitching is off) Please chime in on that! :sb:

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Post by Monobass » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:23 am

NS4W wrote: I'm still curious about others noise experiences. Do you also get audible artifacts when wiggling the start pot with the latest firmware with pitching on. I get it with both LFO modulation and turning the pot by hand. (I also get it when pitching is off) Please chime in on that! :sb:
Maybe you could upload a file structure, take a video of it in use with the problem audible?
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Post by J_Behan » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:36 pm

I seem to be having some issues with my teensy and Radio Music. I don't think the teensy loader is reading the device properly. When I open the loader and press the button on the teensy (led stops blinking), the loader still looks like this:

Image

I tried loading the RM firmware anyway, and along the bottom of the loader window it says: 'RadioMusic1_1.cpp.hex (unreadable)'.
Does this mean it loaded but just isn't being read?

I went here https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/loader_win10.html for help and saw this:
If HalfKay is running, you should see this. If not, simply make sure your Teensy board is connected, and press the pushbutton to run HalfKay. The Teensy Loader will quickly recognize it.
...but I've no idea what that means or what button it's referring to.

I've tried a few different USB ports on my PC (win10/64bit) but no luck. I'm using a kindle cable as it's the only one I can find that fits at the mo. Could it be a cable issue or am I just doing something wrong? I'm new to arduino/teensy type stuff so I'm kind of winging it here...

Any help would be much appreciated!

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Post by synthetek » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:01 pm

J_Behan wrote:
I've tried a few different USB ports on my PC (win10/64bit) but no luck. I'm using a kindle cable as it's the only one I can find that fits at the mo. Could it be a cable issue or am I just doing something wrong? I'm new to arduino/teensy type stuff so I'm kind of winging it here...

Any help would be much appreciated!
Some usb cables only provide power for charging and don't have the data lines connected.

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