[Project] Music Thing Radio Music 4hp sample player

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J_Behan
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Post by J_Behan » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:10 pm

synthetek wrote: Some usb cables only provide power for charging and don't have the data lines connected.
Yeah, I've read that. I presumed a kindle cable would have worked as it would need to be able to transfer data from amazon? I'm pretty sure it's the cable that came with my kindle, but maybe it isn't. :despair:

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Post by NS4W » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:27 pm

Monobass wrote: Maybe you could upload a file structure, take a video of it in use with the problem audible?
OK, I please listen to this file for a comparison between the noise floor/artifacts and what I actually want to be hear. Be careful with volume at first playback!

First seconds are just the Radio Music noise floor, relatively "quiet" when nothing is modulated, then I trigger a sample and do some manual wiggling of the start knob, and some artefacts appear, another sound is triggered and I modulate the start input with an lfo, the artifacts are to my ears too present now... Is this the kind of background noise one has to expect from modular? I know that the samples are loud in comparison, but when making music with a lot of negative space and these modulations are running it gets annoying :omg:

I am in pitch mode with these settings:
crossfade=1
crossfadeTime=50
showMeter=1
chanPotImmediate=0
chanCVImmediate=0
startPotImmediate=0
startCVImmediate=1
looping=0
anyAudioFiles=1
pitchMode=1
hardSwap=1
quantizeRootPot=0
quantizeRootCV=0
startCVDivider=0

This was on a PSU with only the Radio Music and a QPLFO connected.
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Last edited by NS4W on Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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J_Behan
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Post by J_Behan » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:26 pm

J_Behan wrote:
synthetek wrote: Some usb cables only provide power for charging and don't have the data lines connected.
Yeah, I've read that. I presumed a kindle cable would have worked as it would need to be able to transfer data from amazon? I'm pretty sure it's the cable that came with my kindle, but maybe it isn't. :despair:
Ok, I'm an idiot. It wasn't my kindle cable after all, which I found eventually and it worked fine. Took me 5 minutes then to realize I had to press download on the loader haha. Working fine now. :guinness:

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Post by akin » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:16 am

I have built up my Radio Music - but am currently getting no audio.

I'm convinced the Teensy is all working fine and the Hex file uploaded correctly.

I have uploaded the original sample pack onto the SD card - its new and San Disk.

When I turn the station knob, I can tell that it is clicking through the appropriate number of stations to match the sample pack.

The module is successfully going through the banks when holding the Reset.

That is leading me to think it may be a faulty component - As i cant see any obvious issues with the soldering and have reflowed any that could be an issue.

I tried an alternative IC with no luck.

With this type of behaviour would anyone have any advice on where the issue may be within the circuit?

Im going to need to get a multi meter with continuity test function.

Thanks all.

Akin

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Post by bostonguy » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:22 pm

Hi Akin, the TL074 would be my top suspect, followed by a missing or bad solder joint on the Teensy Audio Out pin. You’re not missing the audio out pin are you? (Sorry, just have to ask).

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Post by batchas » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:31 pm

akin wrote:I have built up my Radio Music - but am currently getting no audio.
Check that you did not forgot the TL074 :tu:

Like bostonguy said = first suspect for no audio out.

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Post by akin » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:18 pm

Yep - Tried 3 different TL074 - Two from a new batch and an older one.

Possibly a dodgy IC Socket? Maybe Ill get a new one and see if that does anything.

The output pin is in there and looks ok - but I will go back and redo the output pin and see if that gives me any luck.

Thanks for confirming those are the most likely sources of the issues.

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synthetek
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Post by synthetek » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:48 pm

post some pics of it, maybe we can see something your missing

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Post by cliffemu » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:34 pm

MDK wrote: Crossfading is restricted entirely on the Sample Rate / Bit Depth so you CAN use 44/16/mono .wav files and get crossfading.

In the 'normal' mode, i.e. not pitch mode and not the 'anyAudioFiles' it will scan for both raw files and 44/16/mono wavs.

Sometime in the future it may be possible to have both crossfading and pitch mode for Raw and 44/16/mono. The problem at the moment is that when shifting samples an octave it takes too CPU to run 2 channels at the same time BUT personally I would like to be able to do slow crossfades between heavily slowed samples so i'm considering adding another option, something like 'iReallyKnowWhatImGettingMyselfIntoAndWontComplainWhenTheCPULocksUp' so you can do that kind of thing :D
I hate to bother but this idea really intrigues me: has there been any progress with crossfading?
I was thinking, besides crossfading sample to sample, another good use for it would be crossfading the looping to make more seamless loops.

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Post by DoubleStop » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:16 am

Hi everyone,

just a preface (dislclaimer?) : I am New to EuroRack and this is my first DIY project.

After I finished assembling this kit, I spent 2 weeks doing this: :bang: Thinking I had messed up on the hardware somewhere.. but finally had a :hail: moment when I realized that my mistake was that I had been trying to update the Teensy firmware with this:

RadioMusic1_1.cpp.hex

which COMPLETELY fails. When I program the Teensy, It looks like it loads.. but then when powering it up the module does nothing, no LED's, no sound, Multimeter shows all voltages look good!

Finally after lots of Metering and pulling components out testing them and putting them back in again... I realized that there was this:

Radio_Music_2017.2.hex

OH! Fudge! Now its working!!! All that tinkering, unsoldering, resoldering multi-metering around.. for nothing!

However, after loading the card up with the "recommended" 8 gb sound samples I have discovered l a problem:

It works at first. I can dial through the samples, reset with the button and all... but When I hold down the reset button, The Radio Music will go through its LED binary bank count, as expected, but then when I release the button, the binary Code in the LED's remains lit ... and I get nothing. Station dial does not work, Reset and position does nothing. No Audio. Nothjing. It's stuck. My only way to unstick it is to turn off the module and power it up again.

I notice that after powering it up again, it often will remain in whatever bank I had last tried to switch it to.. and everything works fine again, until I try to change bank.

Rinse and Repeat.

So My question is: Is this a firmware issue? Or is it a Teensy or IC issue?

My SD card is a SanDisk Ultra. 32 GB
I deleted the settings file and let the firmware create the default one .. so I'm doubting its a settings issue.

Suggestiosn?

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DoubleStop
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Post by DoubleStop » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:53 am

OK,

Seeing that my post gets no response, Can anyone at least suggest where I might submit a post where I could get some help?

Jeff

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batchas
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Post by batchas » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:50 am

DoubleStop wrote:It works at first. I can dial through the samples, reset with the button and all... but When I hold down the reset button, The Radio Music will go through its LED binary bank count, as expected, but then when I release the button, the binary Code in the LED's remains lit ... and I get nothing. Station dial does not work, Reset and position does nothing. No Audio. Nothjing. It's stuck. My only way to unstick it is to turn off the module and power it up again.
Pers. I'd have another check on how the button is soldered. Right direction, that nothing is making a short etc.

But first I'd check what's on the SD Card. Did you try with the sample banks you can find on github?
To be sure it's not related to your samples, folder structure etc.

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Post by DoubleStop » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:32 am

batchas wrote:
But first I'd check what's on the SD Card. Did you try with the sample banks you can find on github?
To be sure it's not related to your samples, folder structure etc.
Yes, I first used the Sample structure, with the birdsongs.. Then when I had that working, I downloaded the 8 gb sample structure available from Music Modular. I think maybe my next step will to clear the card again and try downloading the sound samples from a different server.... maybe the one I downloaded is corrupted somehow? I do think it rather odd that Holding down the Reset button works as expected... meaning that it does go into binary mode after a couple seconds and then cycles through the binary sequence. (It's supposed to do that ... right?) It's just that when I release the button, it apparently does not leave "bank switch" mode (binary LED's still display whatever value It was at on release) and so it no longer is able to load a sample. However, in the bank it loads on startup, the button clicks work fine.

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DoubleStop
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Post by DoubleStop » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:40 am

batchas wrote: But first I'd check what's on the SD Card. Did you try with the sample banks you can find on github?
I decided to dial this back a bit and inquire (to anyone familiar to a working version of this module) The RESET button: How much "play" should the button have? I notice that on mine, It does not take much of distance between unpushed and pushed state on the button. It's hard to tell on this plastic button if maybe on other peoples modules they have more action? Maybe something is wonky with it? :party:

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Post by batchas » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:17 am

DoubleStop wrote:Yes, I first used the Sample structure, with the birdsongs.. Then when I had that working...
What do you mean with you had that "working"? You could load the different banks and play all of them (or is this birdsongs only 1 bank and 15 folders are empty?).
DoubleStop wrote:The RESET button: How much "play" should the button have?
It does not have much space between up/down. It's normal.

Pers. I'd try first to be sure it is able to read/load more than 1 bank.
You power it on, you look carefully which binary is lighten on, so you know which bank is loaded (bank X). I guess you can play all the samples in this bank right?

Then you switch to the next bank, or whatever bank (atually I'd go to the next if I were you, I would not scan fwd, so you go every single bank one by one first), as long as you notice which number it is when you release the button (bank Y). As you describe it I guess then no sampling will play anymore. OK, then now power it off. Wait a bit. Power on again. On which bank did it started? Bank X or bank Y?

If it's on bank Y then the button is ok.
And youll have to check SD Card (maybe try another one), reload firmware, change the Teensy.

Maybe open "all" pages of this thread and search in you browser for "only one" "only 1" "no banks loading" "correctly loading", this kind of keywords and more whic describe your issue, to see if someone had this before.

I hope you'll get it sorted.



EDIT:
you could also open the SD Card with the 16 folders numbered from 00 to 15 and the settings.txt file and start with emptying all folders except the first 2. Put only 3 or 4 different samples, so you recognize which one is playing.
Then swtich banks. Does it load? Does it remain on first loaded, like I wrote before?
Etc.

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Post by DoubleStop » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:50 pm

What do you mean with you had that "working"? You could load the different banks and play all of them (or is this birdsongs only 1 bank and 15 folders are empty?).
I will have to load that again....to be sure.
But first:
It does not have much space between up/down. It's normal.

Pers. I'd try first to be sure it is able to read/load more than 1 bank.
You power it on, you look carefully which binary is lighten on, so you know which bank is loaded (bank X). I guess you can play all the samples in this bank right?
Yes, I can sweep between all samples in the bank it loaded when switching it on. Usually I notice that it plays the first sample in the bank it was on when I last switched it off...I will need to be more methodical, as you suggest, to give a definitive answer. I honestly am not sure how it manages to switch banks since after the attempt to change it the sample playback fails.

I'm a little intrigued about how it stores the last bank when it is powered off. I imagine there must be a "pointer" value that correlates to the bank number that is stored in a non-volatile part of the teensy register somewhere?

Anyhow, I'm afraid I have to wait a bit to test it out again. I decided to troubleshoot the mechanical button...so I attempted to desolder the four button pins and then remove and then re-seat and re-solder it again. I'm getting better at at soldering skills, but removing the cheap plastic button is a rather messy affair! One of the pins is obscured by other components...and hard to see if I had it in its old hole properly. Long story short....(Sigh!..Snort!) I botched it so that now the button immediately puts it into bank changing mode - regardless of whether the button is depressed...or not!

:bang:

So I yanked it out and had to order another button from mouser (electronic mail order in US). I'm cheap...so I'm waiting for the "slowest" shipping option. :zombie:

I'll see what happens when get the new button installed.

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Post by DoubleStop » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:56 pm

I have a Radio Music soldering question! I had to remove the button and am waiting for a new one to get shipped from Mouser. But I am concerned about the through holes. It looks to me like my effort to first reseat, then remove the original has compromised some of the copper plating around the holes. Am I screwed? Will I need to order a new PCB and rebuilt it?

ImageImage

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Post by synthetek » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:56 am

It's hard to tell until you clean up the back side a little but it looks like it might be ok, if not it can be fixed by adding a few jumper wires.

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Post by nmveld » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:27 am

Hi all,

I just finished building my Radio Music/Chord Organ and I want to make my own frontpanel (lasercut perspex) but I can't find a proper vector file. There is a .ai in the git, but it doesn't have the right information. Does anyone know where to find the right file? I contacted Tom over e-mail but he is probably busy atm. Hope you guys can help!

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batchas
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Post by batchas » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:47 pm

nmveld wrote:There is a .ai in the git, but it doesn't have the right information.
I just checked the ai file. It's ok.
What do you mean it does not have the right info?
Even with the font missing you can open it. The jpg is also missing but it's ok too. Main layers need to be set to visible, but it's ok too.
Tell me what's wrong for you and I'll see what I can do.


EDIT:
Here with vectorized font, so just rewrite the text with the font you like. I exported as .eps, .ai CS4 and .ai CC. Hope it helps.

- EPS
- CS4
- CC

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DoubleStop
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Post by DoubleStop » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:47 am

synthetek wrote:It's hard to tell until you clean up the back side a little but it looks like it might be ok, if not it can be fixed by adding a few jumper wires.

To Reiterate. My current issue is that when I turn on power to the Radio Music Module. It behaves as if the button is permanently being pushed down. The top left LED is lit, then it moves to the second, then the third, then the right.. then it Cycles back. Pushing the button or holding it down makes no difference.. its stuck apparently changing banks.

I have been working under the assumption that something is wrong with the Button... so I took the old one out... and then put it back again.. With still the same behavior.. (Although then the bank selection was in Binary .. 1 thru 16.. Now it just cycles through the 4 LED's.)

In my effort to remove the original button, It appears I may have damaged the little copper plates around the 4 button holes (see my earlier post) . So I ordered new button and put it in today. The suggestion was to use jumper wires .... I followed the traces on the circuit board the best I can. Can anyone tell me if this looks correct?

Image

I tested continuity between the left button posts and the 10k resistor and the 2 right posts go to the bat42 diode. But I am having a hard time figuring out where the traces lead to between the Pins that combine the two PCB's together. The trace on the left seems to terminate And the right one is hard to follow.. I don't know where it goes. (I used a snippet of Tom's original PCB photo on his site to illustrate what things I have jumpered (red arrows).

Image

Can anyone tell me if I need to jumper anything else?

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Post by Attackman » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:34 pm

Hi I can't seem to get the Teensy to 'see' the RM. I built the original before last years firmware release - I'm still operating with raw files etc. I thought I'd load the most recent firmware.

When I built RM originally I cut the tracer (for lack of understanding and adhering to the build instructions!). No problem. I power from within the case, the RM leds get busy. I then connect to the RM via usb data cable to computer. The Teensy program doesn't recognise anything is connected. I press the button on the chip in RM and still nothing happens with the Teensy program. The RM module then appears to shut down as if I'd just pulled the plug.

Is there a precise sequence or approach to doing this. I can't figure out why its a problem.

It's not the cable that I'm certain of,

Anyone got any thoughts?

As an aside, when I go back to using RM as per original firmware I find some files are overdriven/distorted in peaks.

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Post by DoubleStop » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:57 am

Well.. really Disappointing. I had high hopes for a first project.

I think I am going to have to give up, I don't seem to have the skills to troubleshoot this module.
Its completely dead now. I guess I will have to build another one from scratch. :deadbanana:

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Post by nmveld » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:20 am

batchas wrote:
nmveld wrote:There is a .ai in the git, but it doesn't have the right information.
I just checked the ai file. It's ok.
What do you mean it does not have the right info?
Even with the font missing you can open it. The jpg is also missing but it's ok too. Main layers need to be set to visible, but it's ok too.
Tell me what's wrong for you and I'll see what I can do.


EDIT:
Here with vectorized font, so just rewrite the text with the font you like. I exported as .eps, .ai CS4 and .ai CC. Hope it helps.

- EPS
- CS4
- CC
Thanks! I wasn't sure if the ai. file was usable because of the overlay (illustrations). I altered it a bit so that all the cutting lines are clearly visable and usable by a lasercutting machine. Here you can download the file for the people who want to lasercut their panel.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ejoy0fsq75ch ... YUT-a?dl=0

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Post by batchas » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:03 am

DoubleStop wrote:To Reiterate. My current issue is that when I turn on power to the Radio Music Module. It behaves as if the button is permanently being pushed down. The top left LED is lit, then it moves to the second, then the third, then the right.. then it Cycles back. Pushing the button or holding it down makes no difference.. its stuck apparently changing banks.
Just as info I did not read your other posts (no time right time sorry).
I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but when I read what you describe here, I'd say the SD Card is not inserted.
I can't remember now 100% if it's the SD Card not inserted which does this or the firmware "test module", which means you should flash the last firmware on the Teensy again.


Maybe someone with a module can quickly confirm it's the SD Card missing which does this. I have to go.

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