TR-606 - is there any clone in DIY format?

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Bamboombaps
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Post by Bamboombaps » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:54 am

NS4W wrote:Are there plans for pcbs/panels?
I think I might still have a bd and HH sets

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JanneI
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Post by JanneI » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:49 pm

I ordered 10 pcb sets for 5U version, pm me if interested!

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Post by hw408 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:21 pm

I would be inspired to hear from anybody who built the euro version of the kick or hats, and also added an external trigger length converter (based on the given schematic for 5u version, or any other way actually)

The trigger length fixer circuit seems simple enough but I tried implementing twice and failed both (stripboard/perfboard). Even after breadboarding it and testing and believing the circuit works - using it, the BSP can trigger them with nornal results, no flim flam trigger. I also wasnt sure of a slick way to mount that circuit onto the existing module.

Ill try a third time to hack something out, but if you did such a thing and have any words of wisdom or encouragement id be so happy to hear about it. Thanks!

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Post by OIP » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:12 am

i've built the euro kick and hats/cymbal (from JanneI's pcbs) and they seem to trigger fine from triggers and gates, though they trigger on the rise and fall of gates.

tried from mutable grids, dual slope generator, serge slew, clock divider, TSNM, basically whatever i could throw at it. in fact i can't get a 'machine gun' trigger at all, though i have only tried sharp edges, not sure what happens from an actual slope input.

there is some variation in loudness depending on the strength of the trigger i think.

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Post by hw408 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:47 am

OIP wrote:i've built the euro kick and hats/cymbal (from JanneI's pcbs) and they seem to trigger fine from triggers and gates, though they trigger on the rise and fall of gates.
That is what I find as well. No machine gun, more lile a double.

Are they usable if they trigger twice, how are you working around that?

I removed the input jacks on the kick, to try to reroute into the trigger lengthener circuit on stripboard, but had bad luck so far. It worked on breadboard and only triggered once when i tested. But I screw up the actual stripboarding.

So my kick module is sitting without jacks and i never built the hats because it will be unusable too, unless I can get this figured out.

So im curious if what anybody did was similar to what i was attempting to do.

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Post by OIP » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:33 pm

there is no noticeable doubling up with actual trigger/pulse signals for me, so if i don't have any spare and need to use gates i just use half a slope generator to turn the gate into a short trigger.

you could definitely build a 'universal' gate to trigger converter, either standalone or maybe tacked onto the module. might be difficult on the hats as it's already a dense build..

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Post by basicbasic » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:39 pm

I ended up building the gate to trigger circuit from the 5U schematics (you can find them in this thread) to fix the finicky triggering on the bass drum.

I routed the input jacks to the daughter board then moved the gate input resistors to the outputs of the trigger circuit.

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Post by JanneI » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:59 am

The reason I didn't include that cd40601 -based gate to trig converter to the eurorack modules was simply dense layout of the HH-CC module. Also, it would make more sense to build all the drums in a single module and use a single +5v reg for the three CD40601 circuits, just like in 5U. This would also probably mean changing from through-hole to SMD, or 32hp wide module.

For the BD module this "gate to trig circuitry" would pretty easily fit, maybe worth of redesigning. HH-CC will need to be converted to SMD to make it fit.

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Post by euromorcego » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:34 am

an alternative might be to make headers on the back of each module for normalization and then add a 3-4 hp input module that does the gate-trigger conversion, and directly feeds into the jacks (either via normalization or, maybe better with an OR gate).

Then those who want straight triggers can use the inputs on the expander (which could host 8 inputs: BD1, BD2, SN, CH, OH, LT, HT, CY) and those who want to mess with gates could use the original jacks (and with an OR combiner, one could even do both at the same time).

The expander would have the advantage that it is more efficient to build a few of those converters on a single board. Also, one could build an passive expander (an expander for the expander, no less) to use the gate-to-trigger converter standalone (also for those who do not need all the channels).

In any case, I would still not mind a complete eurorack 606 in 32hp. With the converter included and levels at eurorack standard.

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Post by JanneI » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:20 am

euromorcego wrote:an alternative might be to make headers on the back of each module for normalization and then add a 3-4 hp input module that does the gate-trigger conversion, and directly feeds into the jacks (either via normalization or, maybe better with an OR gate).

Then those who want straight triggers can use the inputs on the expander (which could host 8 inputs: BD1, BD2, SN, CH, OH, LT, HT, CY) and those who want to mess with gates could use the original jacks (and with an OR combiner, one could even do both at the same time).

The expander would have the advantage that it is more efficient to build a few of those converters on a single board. Also, one could build an passive expander (an expander for the expander, no less) to use the gate-to-trigger converter standalone (also for those who do not need all the channels).

In any case, I would still not mind a complete eurorack 606 in 32hp. With the converter included and levels at eurorack standard.
Yes! Expander could also do a midi to trig conversion and have a midi input jack (or 3,5mm).

Eurorack signal levels is little bit trickier because the original 606 only uses +15v & ground (which is generated from 9vdc or batteries), so every drum circuit uses "virtual ground", which means "+7,5v/-7,5v rails". Since we are using eurorack power supplies, it means +12v and ground, which then means only "+6v/-6v" for these circuits. You'd need to boost the signal and in the same time boost the noise etc.

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Post by euromorcego » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:40 am

JanneI wrote:Since we are using eurorack power supplies, it means +12v and ground, which then means only "+6v/-6v" for these circuits. You'd need to boost the signal and in the same time boost the noise etc.
ok, but would it not be possible to use a 'proper' bipolar voltage from the eurorack supply. MFOS recommends when running a 9V circuit in a modular to use voltage convertes for +5V (L78L05 from 12V) and -5V (L79L05 from -12V) and run the circuit from -5V (as virtual zero) to 5V (as virtual 9V, well 10V but it usually doesn't matter).

Unfortunately voltage regulators for 7V are harder to find, 9V versions are still common. Maybe it is possible to run the circuit from -9V to 9V derived from the bipolar 12V (corresponding to 18V in the original circuit).

In this way you would avoid issues with the virtual ground. Of course such a power supply is a bit more effort, so it is probably also more suitable for a full module with all voices.

In any case, I think the level conversion could also be done afterwards, using a cap to remove the DC and boosting the signal to the desired level using a conventional opamp running from the bipolar eurorack 12V. There are plenty of modules that do this (like teh Radio Music, I think the DAC out is 0-5V, and it is then shifted to eurorack levels).

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Post by JanneI » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:29 am

I got the 10 pcb sets for the 5u version, PM now if interested. Same price, 25eur.

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Post by oozitron » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:03 am

Ordered my PCB set for 15v :sb:

I will be triggering mine with my MIDIBox Sequencer triggers, which are 1ms.

I've looked back through this thread, and am not sure what kind of modifications I will need to do to make things work & sound correct with such a short trigger.

Has anyone already made adjustments to "extend" the incoming triggers?

From the circuit drawings I can see two caps and three resistors that I think would be involved, but my understanding is not enough to know which ones to change, or whether to use higher values or lower ones :roll:

thanks for any help, and super thanks to Janne for this project!!!
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Post by JanneI » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:39 pm

TR-606 eurorack SD-TOMS 8hp module pcb's ordered. I'll share gerbers once I've tested it.

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BTW, I still have some 5u versions left, pm if interested.

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Post by toneburst » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:00 pm

@JanneI do these include trigger input conditioning, so you don't have to feed it with triggers of exactly the right length for it to work?

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Post by JanneI » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:04 pm

toneburst wrote:@JanneI do these include trigger input conditioning, so you don't have to feed it with triggers of exactly the right length for it to work?
No. These eurorack versions you need to trigger with 4ms trigger pulses.

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Post by toneburst » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:08 pm

Thanks for the quick reply!

That's a shame. I was just reading up thread that adding trigger conditioning for the Eurorack versions would require changing to surface-mount, rather than through-hole components to make the required space.

Do you think it's likely you'll do this, some time in the future?

I don't know about others, but I'd be happy to solder up a 0805/0603/SOIC-based version.

There are quite a few SMD DIY Euro projects out there, these days, so I'm guessing I'm not alone.

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Post by JanneI » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:12 am

What is also missing is the mixer and midi to trig converter. This would be module which could have the trigger shaper, mixer and midi input.

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Post by toneburst » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:10 pm

JanneI wrote:What is also missing is the mixer and midi to trig converter. This would be module which could have the trigger shaper, mixer and midi input.
That would make a cool all-in-one 606 voice module, with the full set of sounds.

Are these additions on the cards?

I notice there’s no Accent inputs. Was the 606 accent applied globally to the mixed output, as I believe it was on the CR-5000? If so, could this be added to the mixer, like Falafular did with their Accenturist module, I wonder.

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Post by hw408 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:14 pm

toneburst wrote:Thanks for the quick reply!

That's a shame. I was just reading up thread that adding trigger conditioning for the Eurorack versions would require changing to surface-mount, rather than through-hole components to make the required space.

Do you think it's likely you'll do this, some time in the future?

I don't know about others, but I'd be happy to solder up a 0805/0603/SOIC-based version.

There are quite a few SMD DIY Euro projects out there, these days, so I'm guessing I'm not alone.
I am stuck here. I would be thrilled to see anyones thru hole solution for trigger conditioner. Especially smd, but I cant do designs and pcb stuff.

My thru hole trigger conditioner add-on for the kick was so awkward and I couldnt mount it nicely. I am finishing the hats soon and will probably just not use be able to use it.

I would still go in on the snare and toms.

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Post by JanneI » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:18 am

Hi! I have 3 pcb sets left for 5U version. PM if interested.

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Post by oozitron » Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:58 am

The BOM has a 1k Lin pot for Hi Tom, Lo Tom and Snare Tuning

Would these controls still work ok if it was a 10k Lin pot?

I found pots I like but they don't have a 1k

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Post by JanneI » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:35 am

oozitron wrote:The BOM has a 1k Lin pot for Hi Tom, Lo Tom and Snare Tuning

Would these controls still work ok if it was a 10k Lin pot?

I found pots I like but they don't have a 1k

Drew
That will probably swing too far. I'd use 1k lin for these.

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Post by Quinie » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:06 am

Yesterday I breadbord the bassdrum one, it didn't work but as I was clean it up, I think I seen my mistake. Will give it a second try today.

I'm not a real elektronics guy, mostly work on computers and programming. But I'm learning. I learn faster by doing things then reading a book. Have some basic knowlegde about resitor and so.

As the bassdrum 1 and 2 are not that far apart (schematics) can smeone point me to a link or explain to me how this schematic works ?

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Post by Quinie » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:42 am

Breadboard it again.. and no success again ;) I'm thinking a failing tl072. Can someone give me some pointers on what to measure around this schematic ?

Edit:

Well now it work's it had pin out wrong on the second oscilator. Did some reading today. found some post's on electro-music.getting to know this schematics is a fun read.

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