DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

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arthurdent
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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by arthurdent » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:25 am

forestcaver wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:00 am
@arthurdent I’m very suspicious of the stm32 - looks like at least two bridges in your photo (but I could be wrong), I’d also look at the mini jtag - looks a little suspicious...
Dumb question - are you powering the board when you flash it? I am assuming so but thought I’d check...
From the schematic, C19 connects to Pin 47, C24 connects to Pin 31. C8 is connected to +3V3, as is Pin 64 of the STM so you can see a trace connection on the PCB if you look closely. I've gone all around the STM with the meter to ensure that there are no adjacent pin-to-pin bridges, checking at the PCB pad level as well as at the upper level where the pins enter the chip body - yes I'm extremely anal.

There is a bridge on the mini-JTAG between Pins 3 & 5; you can even see the trace on the PCB. In fact, Pins 3, 5, and 9 are all tied together and go to Ground. I've checked across all of the other pins and everything appears to follow the schematic with no cross connections.

Yes, I power the module when I flash it. In fact to verify that it isn't a power supply issue, I've tried it in two different cases with two different power supplies. The only thing that is somewhat bothersome - on the program readout is says the Target voltage is 3.007456 volts but I've measured it at 3.29 volts and that's on the Olimex board where it plugs into the STLink. I don't know if the software would see that as an issue and refuse to load. I DO know that when I tried to program once with the power off I got an error message of 0 volts that was too low to program. FWIW I posted this problem on GitHub to see if I was doing something wrong with the programming and I was politely told by Emilie that Git was for discussion of software issues only and NOT for troubleshooting DIY builds.

Anyway, thanks for the comments.

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by forestcaver » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:42 am

I strongly suspect you have some sort of short on the 3v3 line - I thought the jtag may have a solder whisker on pin 1 (I could see the gnd bridges which I didnt mean when I said about a bridge).
Looking at the stm32 it looked like I could see some bridges where there shoudnt be any.... oh, well...
The stlinkv2 reads the 3v3 line on pin 1 iirc and reports it in software (reasons for low reading could be not powered, a short which could be on the board, could be internal to the dac or stm32 or on the mini-jtag. You can see a low reading rather than zero volts if the board isnt powered as the stm32 in the stlink is also powered but not sufficiently to power the rest of your board). It’s always easier to build in chunks eg power section, stm32, flash then, then build the rest.
I suspect you’re going to end up taking off the stm32 and dac, checking and then replacing if you cant see anything else....

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by arthurdent » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:50 pm

forestcaver wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:42 am
I strongly suspect you have some sort of short on the 3v3 line - I thought the jtag may have a solder whisker on pin 1 (I could see the gnd bridges which I didnt mean when I said about a bridge).
Looking at the stm32 it looked like I could see some bridges where there shoudnt be any.... oh, well...
The stlinkv2 reads the 3v3 line on pin 1 iirc and reports it in software (reasons for low reading could be not powered, a short which could be on the board, could be internal to the dac or stm32 or on the mini-jtag. You can see a low reading rather than zero volts if the board isnt powered as the stm32 in the stlink is also powered but not sufficiently to power the rest of your board). It’s always easier to build in chunks eg power section, stm32, flash then, then build the rest.
I suspect you’re going to end up taking off the stm32 and dac, checking and then replacing if you cant see anything else....
I've traced all of the power legs through the PCB with the system powered up and I have correct voltages everywhere - and I didn't find any voltage where there wasn't supposed to be. I also checked current draw, got 116 mA on the +12volt side and 12 mA on the -12volt side; according to the MI website the factory Cloud module draws 120 and 10.

When I had the STLink connected I checked voltages, actually measured it on the Olimex PCB and I had the correct voltage even though the software was only seeing 3 volts. There is a small solder wisker on Pin 1 of the JTAG but it's not touching any of the adjacent pins so I've left it go for now, it will eventually get cleaned up.

IF I ever build another one of these - or any of the other STM-based modules -I will definitely build in "chunks" so that I can verify the processor early on.

I'm at the point right now where replacement of the STM appears to be the only solution. It doesn't look to be pretty; just to get access to it I'll probably have to take off 3 of the pots and possibly also replace the caps directly adjacent to the STM. If I have to take that route, it's gonna be a week or two before I do it. I've done practically nothing else for the last week but work on this, left a lot of other things around the house go so I need to catch up on some day-to-day stuff. It will also keep my wife happy (or just less upset) so that I can continue to have "hobbies" like this.

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by emir » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:25 pm

emir wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:47 am
I have something to add to this thread unfortunately :eek:
So I soldered a Braids together and the output I get from OUT can be seen in he scope image. I will make sure to take high resolution photos tonight. I hope I can find the cause... Pretty bummed out.
Please help me folks :hail:

Image
Issue was wrong firmware. Nothing wrong with soldering. :sstorm:

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by steviet » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:39 pm

Definitely keep up with the housework. I spent a day straight sulking about/troubleshooting an M-Brane module I built that had a short to ground. Not only did my wife have to deal with the apartment not being fixed up, but then she had to listen to me be a baby about how I'd "tried everything".

But you've got this! Going section by section is a great way to learn about the module too I've found. Makes troubleshooting (if it even has to happen) much easier for me. Best of luck when you come back around to it.
emir wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:25 pm
Issue was wrong firmware. Nothing wrong with soldering. :sstorm:
Such a bittersweet feeling. Good stuff though, rock those Braids :sb:
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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by emir » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:58 pm

steviet wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:39 pm
Definitely keep up with the housework. I spent a day straight sulking about/troubleshooting an M-Brane module I built that had a short to ground. Not only did my wife have to deal with the apartment not being fixed up, but then she had to listen to me be a baby about how I'd "tried everything".

But you've got this! Going section by section is a great way to learn about the module too I've found. Makes troubleshooting (if it even has to happen) much easier for me. Best of luck when you come back around to it.
emir wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:25 pm
Issue was wrong firmware. Nothing wrong with soldering. :sstorm:
Such a bittersweet feeling. Good stuff though, rock those Braids :sb:
Thanks a lot! Spent the evening turning the knobs :sb: Definitely going around taught me something.

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by BadPixel » Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:26 am

I also had issues programming my Clouds and though I'd share in case it may help someone.

At first I also got the "init mode failed (unable to connect to the target)" error using an ST Link v2 with Olimex JTAG adapter. I begun checking all connections between the JTAG and the STM32 for continuity and shorts. When that came up ok I continued looking for shorts and found one between +3V3_A and GND.

The +3V3_A is not the one connected to the JTAG header. It has 19 points so it could have been any of the connected components but I figured it most likely was one of the resistors or ceramic capacitors. I had checked the pins of the STM32 and the WM8731 before adding any other components so I knew they were ok. Reflowing and measuring them one by one the shorted one showed up (C26).

Having the PCB open in Eagle and following signal paths there was very helpful :tu:

(Oh, and yes...my freeze button was on backwards as well :doh: )

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by arthurdent » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:07 am

I'm playing with my Clouds module again this morning, even though I told my wife I would work on some "honey-do" projects. Originally I had reported current draws of 116 mA on the +12volt side and 12 mA on the -12volt side. I had done those measurements kinda quick-and-dirty with a couple pieces of wire clamped in place between the power bus and the module. I made up a better cable arrangement this morning and checked the readings again. This time I'm getting 166 mA on the +12 side; the MI website says the factory Cloud module draws 120 mA. Also IC2 which supplies the +3V3 feels much hotter than IC7 which is suppying the +3V3_A. Checked both with a temperature probe and IC2 is around 122F while IC7 is only about 98F.

I don't know if any of this is significant, just throwing it out in case someone can offer a comment. In the meantime I'm going to follow the power routing again, see if I can find anything.

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by subdrift » Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:09 pm

I have only been doing synth DIY for a few months so my question may sound naive.

I just finished getting all of the SMD components on my Grids build. I was checking the power header to make sure everything was connected correctly and no black smoke would arise from plugging it in to program it. Everything checks out except the two -12V pins do not seem to be connected at all. Usually when I check with my multimeter the two -12v pins will beep, the +12 pins will beep, and grounds will beep. I tried reflowing the header, checked for bridges (didn't see any with my magnifyer,) made sure all of the IC's were oriented correctly.

I'm not sure what else to try. I am right though in that these two pins, when touched with the multimeter, should be connected and give me a "beep," yes? Also to clarify when I say "connected" I do not mean that I have soldered them together. I mean that they are connected via the traces on the board.

ideas?

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by jonny_w » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:37 pm

I've run into a problem with my Typhoon build - no LED's light, except the slider pots. Slight noise coming out of the output jack.

- I'm getting -2.5V, 3.3V, +12/-12V, and -10 where I should be
- All LED's (and LED pushbutton) cathodes are tied to GND
- The STM32 chip flashes fine (I used the Monsoon .hex file)

I'm planning on doing a deep dive with the diptrace file, but in the mean time - anybody have any suggestions?
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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by Altitude909 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:18 pm

jonny_w wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:37 pm
...
- The STM32 chip flashes fine (I used the Monsoon .hex file)

..
That may be the case but thats a completely different processor than whats used in monsoon on completely different hardware

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by jonny_w » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:27 pm

Yup! I was definitely using the wrong firmware. Monsoon does *not* work with Typhoon.

For anybody looking for a pre-compiled .hex file for the Typhoon, go to https://github.com/patrickdowling/super ... s/releases

Now I've got a fully functional Typhoon next to my Microcell. Love this thing!
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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by intropod_ » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:08 pm

subdrift wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:09 pm
Everything checks out except the two -12V pins do not seem to be connected at all.
It's possible (though unusual since I do not know of a good reason to do this) that the PCB is designed this way. With pins soldered or not, if they are connected by a trace on the PCB then you will get the connectivity beep. As long as one of them is connected and can actually power the circuit (i.e. a nearby cap or diode) then I think it can work just fine.
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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by intropod_ » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:18 pm

arthurdent wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:07 am


I don't know if any of this is significant, just throwing it out in case someone can offer a comment. In the meantime I'm going to follow the power routing again, see if I can find anything.
I'm working out the same problem with a monsoon board. I have been stuck on it for 2 weeks now. I'm using ST-Link Utility to try and flash it, but it just cannot connect to the chip at all. I have reworked the soldering many times to no avail. The only progress I have made through reworking is that the 3V3 converter now only gets a bit warm rather than quite warm/hot-ish.

I poke it every couple of days but I'm slowly resigning myself to ordering a new chip (and DAC probably.. just to be sure). One tip is that when buying the main chip (i.e. STM32F405RGT6), switch the last number for a 7 and order part than instead. It's rated for higher heat tolerance, but is otherwise identical. I do not know if this helps the chip survive excessive heat from soldering (and re-soldering). But I'm willing to take a chance, and it doesn't cost much more.

On a brighter note, someone above suggested reworking the JTAG connections. This directly helped get my uBraids build up and running. :yay:

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by 2E0FOA » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:24 pm

Evening all. I need some advice on how to begin troubleshooting.
Braids Through Hole build, no visible shorts or errors on the boards.
Power applied and the red light illuminates on the blue pill, but the displays don’t show anything. I’m not sure if that indicates an issue or not (ie does it need an input or output to make that happen?)

So, best starting points for continuity and voltage measurements would be good, please!!

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by NeolithicElectrophones » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:38 pm

2E0FOA wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:24 pm
Evening all. I need some advice on how to begin troubleshooting.
Braids Through Hole build, no visible shorts or errors on the boards.
Power applied and the red light illuminates on the blue pill, but the displays don’t show anything. I’m not sure if that indicates an issue or not (ie does it need an input or output to make that happen?)

So, best starting points for continuity and voltage measurements would be good, please!!
Did you flash the blue pill with the firmware? To answer your first question. No Braids doesn't need any inputs or outputs for the display to work or to produce sound.

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by 2E0FOA » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:51 pm

NeolithicElectrophones wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:38 pm
2E0FOA wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:24 pm
Evening all. I need some advice on how to begin troubleshooting.
Braids Through Hole build, no visible shorts or errors on the boards.
Power applied and the red light illuminates on the blue pill, but the displays don’t show anything. I’m not sure if that indicates an issue or not (ie does it need an input or output to make that happen?)

So, best starting points for continuity and voltage measurements would be good, please!!
Did you flash the blue pill with the firmware? To answer your first question. No Braids doesn't need any inputs or outputs for the display to work or to produce sound.
Yep, it came pre-flashed and I’ve reflashed as a step already.

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by NeolithicElectrophones » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:55 pm

Did you buy a full kit or source parts yourself? if the latter did you get a common anode display by mistake?

If all is good parts wise I would try reflowing the socket pins on the blue pill and the DACs, then if that doesn't work break out the eagle file and trace backwards from the display.

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by 2E0FOA » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:10 pm

I bought a partial kit, so the displays were included. I’ll get it under the microscope tomorrow and take it from there.

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by snowtires » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:39 pm

2E0FOA wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:10 pm
I bought a partial kit, so the displays were included. I’ll get it under the microscope tomorrow and take it from there.
Check that the transistors above the displays are oriented correctly and check that the soldering on the headers is good. I think the schematic and .brd files are on the soundforce.nl site/github, check the connections that are driving the displays if you're certain that the rest of the module is working

I put together a through hole Braids a month or so ago and it ended up being a bit of a headache. I had a blue pill with the wrong amount of RAM that I was able to flash properly, but it had a lot of digital noise. I replaced pretty much everything and it didn't go away until I replaced the blue pill with a black pill with the proper amount of memory.

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by 2E0FOA » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:40 am

Right, I found a resistor that was incorrectly valued, other than that it all looks good but still nothing. I may have to test the ICs in case any of them are knackered, sound good?

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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by sduck » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:59 am

Ok, help out a guy with a dumbass question. I'm trying to figure out how to program this Antumbra Knit I just finished, and it's not working. In case anyone doesn't know, it's a mini plaits. I've programmed dozens of mutable thingies - well, maybe not dozens, but probably 8 or 9. In the past I've always used my Stlink V2 and an Olimex jtag adapter, and things have just worked. This thing however doesn't have a jtag, just a 4 pin connector. So I tried the 4 pin stm8 connector on the stlink, but it's not connecting, either in vagrant or with stlink utility. Of course there's the possibility that there just something wrong on the board, but everything looks ok, so I'd like to make sure I'm actually connecting things properly. So - can I use the stm8 connector? Or do I need to use the stm32 with some kind of adapter?
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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by Altitude909 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:07 am

You have to jump power for the STlink to work in SWD mode.
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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by sduck » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:05 pm

Oh! That would explain the low/no power error message I was getting. So basically I just need to connect pins 01 and 19 of the larger header - is this correct?
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Re: DIY Mutable Unsuccessful Builds

Post by Altitude909 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:17 pm

sduck wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:05 pm
Oh! That would explain the low/no power error message I was getting. So basically I just need to connect pins 01 and 19 of the larger header - is this correct?
yup, its technically supposed to go to the target voltage but I've never seen a 5 pin SWD header so that pin just needs to be high for the programmer to work. You still have to wire it up to the STM32 header, the STM8 one is for something different. I assume the pinout for the device you have is the same as MI uses but worth double checking
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