[PROJECT] Music Thing USB Stick Euro Power Supply

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dennis010
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Post by dennis010 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:23 am

MMI Modular wrote:I have gone ahead and made a PCB layout of the USB power supply with the Meanwell DKM10E-12 mentioned above. I have not had the chance to do load testing, but the converter is rated to 416mA on both rails.

Things to note about my design:
  • * It still does not have any fuses or reverse polarity protection. Use shrouded headers and check your cables people! Or better yet just don't power this with your laptop.

    * Power input is from a USB type B female socket.

    * The final version has a large white line running down the side denoting -12V so it is easy to reassure yourself of proper polarity.

    * I have added mounting holes so you can easily stick it in your lunchbox permanently.
Expect to see these PCBs on Modular Addict soon! I have talked with John and these, along with a couple modules I've been working on, will find their way on to the site once I finalize some things. I will start up a Github page as well where all my Eagle files will be posted.
All proceeds go towards my college tuition ;)

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very very nice!!! dont sell them in a kit pls, i wanna have the PCB boards only xDDD :nana:

AntonWoldhek
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Post by AntonWoldhek » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:03 am

Tombola wrote:
NS4W wrote:Do you have ay extra PCBs of this?
I have two, PM and I'll send you one. It's is also possible to build with a (slightly modified) female USB header.
i got a pcb from music thing for this one, (s o not the new one mentioned above). Any chance of a note on how to modify a female usb socket? I guess flip the legs around somehow, but how? :)

AntonWoldhek
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Post by AntonWoldhek » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:07 am

thinking about it, couldnt i just put the connector on the other side? then the +5 would be correct right?

AntonWoldhek
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Post by AntonWoldhek » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:37 pm

easiest solution: just rip a cable apart and wire that directly to the pcb

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MMI Modular
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Post by MMI Modular » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:10 pm

dennis010 wrote:
MMI Modular wrote:I have gone ahead and made a PCB layout of the USB power supply with the Meanwell DKM10E-12 mentioned above. I have not had the chance to do load testing, but the converter is rated to 416mA on both rails.

Things to note about my design:
  • * It still does not have any fuses or reverse polarity protection. Use shrouded headers and check your cables people! Or better yet just don't power this with your laptop.

    * Power input is from a USB type B female socket.

    * The final version has a large white line running down the side denoting -12V so it is easy to reassure yourself of proper polarity.

    * I have added mounting holes so you can easily stick it in your lunchbox permanently.
Expect to see these PCBs on Modular Addict soon! I have talked with John and these, along with a couple modules I've been working on, will find their way on to the site once I finalize some things. I will start up a Github page as well where all my Eagle files will be posted.
All proceeds go towards my college tuition ;)
very very nice!!! dont sell them in a kit pls, i wanna have the PCB boards only xDDD :nana:
The plan is to sell PCBs only, though I might do a personal run of assembled units to those who aren't DIY savvy. It looks like I have to pester John (MA) and Steve (Thonk) more since they aren't so good at getting back to me.

Also I apologize for the horrendously big picture in the original post!

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fuzzyboy
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Post by fuzzyboy » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:26 pm

Looks super fun!

Do you a date in mind for the first PCB run?

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MMI Modular
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Post by MMI Modular » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:31 am

fuzzyboy wrote:Looks super fun!

Do you a date in mind for the first PCB run?
Right now there is a run being handled by Modular Addict. I got word from John that the fab house found a few faulty boards in QC, so they sent the whole thing back to be reproduced. Only issue is that with Chinese New Year going on, they won't see the light of day for another week or two, after which they need to be shipped over to the US and all that stuff.

I will be sure to update this thread when they are available!

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salocinnomis
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Post by salocinnomis » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:25 pm

Looks nice, I have all the components including the meanwell transformer on hands, was gonna build mine on veroboard but i'm gonna wait a few weeks for your PCB!
///

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MMI Modular
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Post by MMI Modular » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:47 pm

After an excruciatingly long wait, it's live!
USB Power now available at Modular Addict.

https://modularaddict.com/mmi-usbpower-pcb

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Post by mongrol » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:48 pm

Looks great. Couple of questions.

Is it smaller than 42hp?

If larger, can I chop the end off it?

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c1t1zen
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Post by c1t1zen » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:15 pm

Neat stuff MMI Modular! I love taking a small portable rig out and jamming. More portable power options the better!

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MMI Modular
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Post by MMI Modular » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:33 pm

mongrol wrote:Looks great. Couple of questions.

Is it smaller than 42hp?

If larger, can I chop the end off it?
The entire PCB is less than 40hp (19.5 cm to be exact) in length

If for some reason you need it shorter than that, you can cut off the end without issue.

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MMI Modular
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Post by MMI Modular » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:36 pm

c1t1zen wrote:Neat stuff MMI Modular! I love taking a small portable rig out and jamming. More portable power options the better!
Many thanks! I have a pair of 52hp rails lying around that I have been meaning to make a small skiff for. Spring break is coming up so I plan on getting a bunch of projects out of the way. That one included.

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clarke68
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Post by clarke68 » Tue May 15, 2018 8:50 am

Brought my USB-powered lunchbox up to the Marin Headlands last week:

[video][/video]
Last edited by clarke68 on Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DIY Euro synth panels: Synthcube

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tetsutestu
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Post by tetsutestu » Thu May 17, 2018 6:13 pm

This is such a cool PSU! I bought and built one off of ModAddict and it works great~ I wanted to grab another actually, but they're sold out now~~
By any chance are the gerbers available for this version?
Thanks in any case for making this beauty!
MMI Modular wrote:
c1t1zen wrote:Neat stuff MMI Modular! I love taking a small portable rig out and jamming. More portable power options the better!
Many thanks! I have a pair of 52hp rails lying around that I have been meaning to make a small skiff for. Spring break is coming up so I plan on getting a bunch of projects out of the way. That one included.

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MMI Modular
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Post by MMI Modular » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:52 pm

Wow this is a late reply. I don't browse Muffs near as much as I do reddit. Anyways, the Eagle files for the project are available on my Github at https://github.com/MMImodular/Modules

There you can also find a couple other places to buy the boards, including my Reverb shop which means you'll get them direct from me! Either way, I finally got Modular Addict to restock those boards so hopefully they'll stay in stock for a little longer this time.
tetsutestu wrote:This is such a cool PSU! I bought and built one off of ModAddict and it works great~ I wanted to grab another actually, but they're sold out now~~
By any chance are the gerbers available for this version?
Thanks in any case for making this beauty!
MMI Modular wrote:
c1t1zen wrote:Neat stuff MMI Modular! I love taking a small portable rig out and jamming. More portable power options the better!
Many thanks! I have a pair of 52hp rails lying around that I have been meaning to make a small skiff for. Spring break is coming up so I plan on getting a bunch of projects out of the way. That one included.

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th0mas
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Post by th0mas » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:18 pm

I built the MMI Modular board, and I seem to have a problem. Any more than like, 50mA load on +/12v and it restarts.

I was able to power a Rosie(45mA on +/- 12v) and Pico VCF3 (20mA on +/- 12v) but was not able to power:

Dixie 2+ (60mA/70mA).
Braids
Disting mk4
Shapeshifter

(I was suspecting those last 3 might have been due to power-on current surge from the microcontrollers but it doesn't seem to be the case since the dixie fails too)

Edit: was able to power Dixie by itself but not Dixie and pico. Using a 1A USB power supply

I tried various 1A USB power adapters and a huge Anker USB power supply, no difference. I'm going to try replacing the meanwell, but if anyone can supply any advice I'm all ears.

EDIT AGAIN:

OMG

IT WAS THE USB CABLE. It could only handle ~100mA before doing.. something? The cable had one of those little "isolator" loops in it, not sure if that could act as a current limiter.. but anyways after switching out the meanwell, reflowing the board, and questioning everything.. i decided to try switching the USB cable and sure enough that was my issue.
Last edited by th0mas on Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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mmelnick
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Post by mmelnick » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:36 pm

Can I buy this ps anywhere these days? I want another one
matthewmelnick.com
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th0mas
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Post by th0mas » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:46 pm

Yeah, I think there was stock at modularaddict, pusherman, and from the creator on reverb

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MMI Modular
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Post by MMI Modular » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:16 pm

th0mas wrote: IT WAS THE USB CABLE
This has been a somewhat common issue. I think what it comes down to is if the conductors in the USB cable are good enough to transmit more than a few mA of current.

The Meanwell brick has low voltage lockout if the input drops below 4.2V. Lets say your USB brick is outputting a perfect 5V and your USB cable has a total resistance of 15 ohms (aka it's not a very good cable). Using ohm's law, you find that it would only take 53mA for the voltage drop across the cable to reach 0.8V, making DC-DC converter shut off.

I have found that the Amazon Basics USB A to B cables work pretty well across the board. Haven't had any of those go bad on me yet.

By the way, I have added a fair amount of detail to the ReadMe on the Github page so give it a look. Let me know directly if any of you run in to issues so I can do some investigating.

https://github.com/MMImodular/Modules/t ... r/USBPower

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MMI Modular
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Post by MMI Modular » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:12 am

MMI Modular wrote: The Meanwell brick has low voltage lockout if the input drops below 4.2V.
I was doing some testing last night and this appears to be the root of the issue.
My setup consisted of an Anker USB battery bank, an Amazon basics USB cable (aka the "good" ones), and a 200mA 12V fan.
Image
It's pretty well known that fans like that have rather large inrush current since it's basically just running current through a wire so it made for a pretty decent test.
At work I powered the fan up and noticed inrush of about 1A at 12V. Assuming near perfect efficiency that would be about 2.4A on the 5V rail, reaching the limits of most USB chargers out there.
So what happens when I try to boot the fan from the USBPower?
Image
This graph shows the 5V rail direct from the battery bank. The resolution isn't as fine as it could be, but you'll notice that the peaks reach very near to the 4.2V threshold and very likely reach/pass it as both 12V rails flash on and off until I either unplug everything or give the fan a jump start with some compressed air. Once the fan gets going, it is rather happy to keep spinning, though you can see how much the 5V rail likes to droop under a 200mA load on the 12V rail.
Image
This is all the info I have for now. It's a reasonable assumption to say that USB cables with poor conductors could drop even more voltage and lower the inrush current threshold for boot looping. Another possibility is that the USB power source could have a hard limit on how much current can be pulled in a short amount of time, which would cause the voltage to drop suddenly as well. If I find anything else I'll make it known, though I consider this a pretty good explanation for now. Maybe a V2 with higher current rating and inrush current limiting? You never know :)

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Post by Jarno » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:17 am

Add a low ohm resistor and a big hunking cap to the PCB as power reservoir and inrush dampener?

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MMI Modular
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Post by MMI Modular » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:45 am

Jarno wrote:Add a low ohm resistor and a big hunking cap to the PCB as power reservoir and inrush dampener?
I'm looking in to using a NTC thermistor to limit the inrush. I can also goof around with larger caps, though I've honestly not seen too much a difference between values in terms of behavior before.
Another possibility is implementing soft-start, though that might cause some digital modules to freak out since they tend to like the "instant on" kind of power.
There's a lot of experimenting to be had so I encourage you guys to give it a shot if you have the time.

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Post by joem » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:58 pm

I just got one of the MMI Modular boards and have yet to build it, but I wanted to say thanks Matt for all the notes on the github page for it. I love a project with good documentation! The only problem I foresee is wanting to get another one. :)

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MMI Modular
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Post by MMI Modular » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:30 am

joem wrote:I just got one of the MMI Modular boards and have yet to build it, but I wanted to say thanks Matt for all the notes on the github page for it. I love a project with good documentation! The only problem I foresee is wanting to get another one. :)
Good documentation helps you and me, that's why I try to keep things as up to date as possible. I'm glad someone actually reads it all :)

Let me know how it goes! I always like to see what people do with the boards I keep sending out.

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