[ORDER] Wogglebug by Erica Synths

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kybernetik
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Post by kybernetik » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:03 pm

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Last edited by kybernetik on Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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needspeed
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Hoping for the woggle

Post by needspeed » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:36 pm

I am about to put mine together, so I am hoping for the best, but want to thank you guys for your contribution to this build.

if mine ends up wonky, as some of you have discovered, your insight will help very much.

Should have it done by Wednesday, so we will see what I get.......Steve

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Post by ringstone » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:05 pm

I had the same problem with my Wogglebug as a few others on this thread, and after tracing the circuit I have located the issue (at least on my board).

This is the part of the circuit affected with the relevant area highlighted:
Image

This is the circuit as it was laid out on the PCB (note there is a trace running through 2 vias to the correct spot, there was no continuity though, so this appears to be a fab error):
Image

To check if you have the problem, do a continuity test between either of the spots marked with a blue dot to either of the spots with an orange dot. If you have no continuity, you have the same issue. Connect a jumper wire as shown by the light blue line (alternate connection points are shown with dotted lines):
Image

Here's a pic of my board after applying the fix (note the cap on this side of the board, I initially missed it when building, then coudn't squeeze it in between the two ICs):
Image

Hope this fixes the issue for everyone else too!

Cheers
Blair

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Post by zanscath » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:06 am

I had the similar problems quite a while ago. Smooth CV would do nothing at all. After many tests I found a via under the cluster pot that was touching the Ground. A fabrication error for sure, the via being placed to close I guess. I notified Erica synths about this. Made a small cut around the via and all was fine.

But yesterday I notice I couldn't use it's clock out with MN Tempi. I listened directly to the clock out and heard a faint Smooth audio out (Tone) along with the click of the clock. Clock out works ok with some other modules though. Is this normal? Any idea why this bleeding might be happening.

Image

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Post by GryphonP3 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:56 am

Just had another that was working fine for a few weeks die completely mid-use. Time to break out the meter again.. what a finicky board!
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Post by whyfarer » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:32 am

Hey all -

I too have had some small issues with V3 of this board - though not nearly as troublesome as many of you.

Most everything seems to work for me EXCEPT for CLK IN which would be very helpful in helping this old bug to play with some friends.

I've checked all the issues already reported: the unlinked ground plane, the missing connection between R26 (which is actually printed R20 on the v3 pcb while printed R26 in the schematic in case that confuses anyone else) and R35. My board doesn't seem to have any of these problems which makes sense since it's mostly operating. AND I just spent the last 1.5+ hrs tracing the pcb - I couldn't find anything. :despair:

My CLK IN jack correctly passes the signal to R16 when a cable is inserted but otherwise the middle of the three jack legs is connected to R27. Anyone have ideas or other tips for debugging? As it is, I already love using this funky module but I'd really like to have all the functionality to play the way I want. Thanks!

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JohnnyThorj
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Post by JohnnyThorj » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:42 pm

I assembled one today and it's work perfect! Be careful, do not hurry, do it neatly and everything will turn on! :bananaguitar:

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Post by GryphonP3 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:34 pm

JohnnyThorj wrote:I assembled one today and it's work perfect! Be careful, do not hurry, do it neatly and everything will turn on! :bananaguitar:
Not nexessarily the case. I have 3 built and working, and two of then will NOT work without jumpers connecting components. That is a problem with the traces, as the pads are totally in tact and it does not matter how clean the soldering job is.

The bottom line is to make sure than all parts and ground plane test for contoinuity. Something must have been wrong in the production of this board. One of mine worked perfectly, the others had problems that were directly fixable by jumping parts. On my third one I tested continuity down the entire circuit before building to find its errors. That has nothing to do with how careful you are - it is pure manufacturing error. Still, very fixable with a little patience. If you are lucky, your board is fine. Their problems seem to vary, its not just one persistant issue.
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needspeed
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Post by needspeed » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:20 am

I wish I was lucky with mine. It half works and am going to make time this weekend to troubleshoot after I finish my Klee sequencer tonight.

Its one thing to be careful and ensure the parts are stuffed correctly and that your soldering is carefully checked. Its another, if the board is flawed as some have found and it just adds to the complexity of what should be a simple DIY.....Steve

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Post by pritzcobinger » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:23 pm

I put a wogglebug together and: it works. But I don't know if it works as intended.

What slightly irritates me is that the "Smooth Range pot" influences "Woggle Tone", "Ring" and "Woggle CV Out" but it doesn't seem to have an effect on "Smooth CV Out" and "Stepped CV out". Is that correct?

And the "Clock In" has no effect on "Smooth CV Out" and "Tone" and doesn't light up the Led correspondingly.

It's all a bit confusing...

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Post by oskary » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:48 am

Another unsuccessful build here.. :hmm: :bang:

Similar symptoms as described earlier:

- No clock input
- No left LED
- Only steady tones on the audio outs
- Smooth and Woggle knbos do nothing
- No CV out

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Post by whyfarer » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:58 pm

So... when I was trying to debug my non-working clock in I pulled a TL072 from another module to test if I had a bad one. Unfortunately I plugged it in the wrong way and burned it and possibly some of the other ICs. :deadbanana: First time burning any part of any of my modules. A little scary and I felt really stupid but I'm glad to have that under my belt and out of the way.

I ordered a new batch of chips from digikey which was cheap, with cheap shipping, and arrived really fast. I swapped out all the chips to be safe and now it's working 110%, including the clock in! :banana:

Something to note: even when the S&H is sampling at the clock in rate, the rate led still lights up at the internal clock rate!

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Post by oskary » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:41 am

Now i have checked the traces on almost the entire board, but could not find any of the errors mentioned in this thread. I did find a missing trace between one of theCD4046 and R30. Did not seem to help though.

I wonder about another thing: R03 and R04 are quite confusing.. On my PCB the left resistor (R03) is connected to ground, the right one (R04) to a via that apparently goes nowhere. Is this supposed to go to the stepped CV jack? And what are the correct values here? Should one follow the schematics (except the numbering??)

:hmm:

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Post by JohnnyThorj » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:42 am

GryphonP3 wrote:
JohnnyThorj wrote:I assembled one today and it's work perfect! Be careful, do not hurry, do it neatly and everything will turn on! :bananaguitar:
Not nexessarily the case. I have 3 built and working, and two of then will NOT work without jumpers connecting components. That is a problem with the traces, as the pads are totally in tact and it does not matter how clean the soldering job is.

The bottom line is to make sure than all parts and ground plane test for contoinuity. Something must have been wrong in the production of this board. One of mine worked perfectly, the others had problems that were directly fixable by jumping parts. On my third one I tested continuity down the entire circuit before building to find its errors. That has nothing to do with how careful you are - it is pure manufacturing error. Still, very fixable with a little patience. If you are lucky, your board is fine. Their problems seem to vary, its not just one persistant issue.
Maybe it's just a fortune )

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Post by whyfarer » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:01 pm

oskary wrote:Now i have checked the traces on almost the entire board, but could not find any of the errors mentioned in this thread. I did find a missing trace between one of theCD4046 and R30. Did not seem to help though.

I wonder about another thing: R03 and R04 are quite confusing.. On my PCB the left resistor (R03) is connected to ground, the right one (R04) to a via that apparently goes nowhere. Is this supposed to go to the stepped CV jack? And what are the correct values here? Should one follow the schematics (except the numbering??)


:hmm:
The BOM and the schematic seem to be different than the printed board. R03 is printed as 68k on the pcb but listed as 100k in the BOM/schematic. I built with 68k. Similarly, R04 is listed in the BOM as 68k but printed on the pcb with 100k. I built it as 100k. That is to say I followed what's printed on my v3 sept 2015 board and it works. Hard to say if it's working exactly as it's 'meant to' but it all seems to function and make random cv and audio.

The bottom of R03 on mine goes to ground as well. The top of R04 is connected to the top of R03. The bottom of R04 goes to a via which on my board leads to the top of R25 and the top pin of woggle cv out. Not what the schematic says but as I said mine is working! Hope this helps.

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Post by oskary » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:40 pm

Thanks whyfarer, that info was helpful. It seems that part of my PCB is ok and i had also placed the resistors in the right place.

Doing some further investigation i found an issue with the clock signal missing after the C18 cap, as reported by Barcode earlier in this thread.

I removed the cap from the PCB and wired it directly between D3 and D4. Now the S&H circuit gets the clock and a lot of stuff is actually working!

Only the whole woggle-part is not working yet (no woggle CV/ controls). The debugging continues (at least there`s something to be learned with this build..)

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Post by flab » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:20 pm

i have a pcb-panel set of those in my drawer for years' seems that i will never build it if there is not a clear answer to the problems, what is even more weird than the designer will not care of clarifying problems , is that there are shops outhere that still sell the project

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needspeed
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Post by needspeed » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:27 pm

I bought mine from Erica directly. Only kit so far that has caused me any issues.

Just finished an Ornament and Crime all SMD with just an iron and it worked first shot and have done many kits.

Of course, I could have screwed up as I am human, but now I need to check every component, every solder and every trace and I bought the full kit, so usually all goes well.

Its all good and I just bought a MN V1 Wogglebug which is close to Grant's original design.

It would be nice that Erica acknowledge a potential issue (based on whats been discussed here) but I have not as yet contacted them.

I will get to it next week and we will see what we get......Steve
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Post by jaidee » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:00 am

I've yet to build mine, but the multiple reports of problems is not encouraging.

Bit surprised that Girts23/Erica Synth hasn't commented in this thread - surely he must be following it??

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Post by Whelm » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:48 pm

I'm certainly not impressed by Erica's management of their Wogglebug (I mean the build doc is a mess, never mind the PCBs). However, I haven't actually complained to them about it.

That said, mine (appears) to be working. So it's not a guaranteed bust (following the PCB, not the BOM).

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Post by oskary » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:25 pm

So, my story finishes with a Happy End. After recovering the clock signal by bridging the C18 cap, i looked at the first 4046 and assumed some error there since there was no output at pin 10. I started swapping out 4046s ( i have a bunch of them lying around for an upcoming Fontronik/ TH VCO build). I got very erratic results, making me almost give up the entire project.

Luckily i decided to have another look at the circuit and did some Googling. I found this schematic:

http://modularsynthesis.com/bridechambe ... matics.pdf

The schematic differs to the Erica version in the way pin 12 on the second 4046 is wired. According to Erica it goes through R30 to ground for both 4046s. I had jumpered this connection earlier when i traced the PCB for errors. After removing this jumper - the module is finally working! :sb:

So the documentation certainly leaves a lot to desire... But at least for me the error was fixable in the end. Maybe this can encourage some other builders getting stuck...

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Post by whyfarer » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:29 pm

Congrats oskary! Glad you were able to get it going.

I too had some troubles that seemed to have resolved after replacing some of the ICs that came with my kit (of course this was also after I had done a bunch of other debugging which included touching up solder joints and putting in an op-amp the wrong way necessitating the great IC swap)....

So once everyone is sure that the circuit board doesn't have missing traces or connections that people have reported in the thread, and after you've quad-checked your soldering, the third step may be check the ICs.

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Post by pritzcobinger » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:03 pm

pritzcobinger wrote:I put a wogglebug together and: it works. But I don't know if it works as intended.

What slightly irritates me is that the "Smooth Range pot" influences "Woggle Tone", "Ring" and "Woggle CV Out" but it doesn't seem to have an effect on "Smooth CV Out" and "Stepped CV out". Is that correct?

And the "Clock In" has no effect on "Smooth CV Out" and "Tone" and doesn't light up the Led correspondingly.

It's all a bit confusing...
So, ten days ago i sent an email to Erica Synth asking this question. No answer, yet. Is there someone here who can help me?

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whyfarer
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Post by whyfarer » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:59 pm

I grabbed my scope and hooked up the wogglebug to try to answer your questions - thanks for an excuse to study this beast. Here's what I *think* is going on with mine:

1) Clock In has no effect on my clock LED or clock out.

2) Clock In has some effect on smooth cv out, but it seems to work in conjunction with rate? At very high clock in speeds, on my scope, it almost looks like rate controls 'big' parts of smooth cv out while the clock in controls 'little' parts or finer scale/higher frequency changes. Although both rate and clock in affect smooth cv out I can't tell you for sure what they're both doing. Rate needs to be past 1pm for clk in to have a noticeable effect on smooth cv out.

3) Clock In seems to affect my tone out in a similar way it affects smooth CV out. i.e. clock in affects tone only if rate is turned high enough. If the clock in goes too fast (i.e. audio rate) it may not sound like it's not doing anything to tone. Clock in was most apparent in tone out when the rate knob was around 3 oclock or later but you could start to hear clk in having an effect once rate was turned past 1pm.

4) Smooth Range affects Woggle Tone, (and thus) Ring, Woggle CV Out (though if smooth range goes too high smooth cv out seems to get stuck at some ceiling).

5) Smooth Range does not seem to affect my Smooth CV Out, and Stepped CV Out

I went back and watched their intro video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGPnjAVKReE and here are some more notes:

a) smooth range affects woggle time circuit (at least for woggle tone out)

b) tone out is not affected by woggle time

c) cluster is "overall randomness" in circuit

d) ring is ring modulated woggle tone and tone which means all controls are affecting this output

e) woggle cv out is controlled like woggle tone

f) and that's about all it says!

Try turning up your rate with a clock in signal and see if it affects tone and smooth cv out.

Hope this helps you and others who are attempting to debug out a bit.

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Post by ym2612 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:49 pm

This block diagram should help explain what's going on inside it. This is for Grant's Wiard 300 version.

Image

Smooth Range controls frequency range of the Smooth VCO, which is influenced by the vactrol-smoothed CV that comes out of the S&H circuit. This CV is also output as the Smooth CV Out.

Clock In clocks the second S&H circuit that is output as the Stepped CV Out and is used to influence the Woggle VCO, which is driven by a PLL that follows the Smooth VCO. The internal clock is normalled to Clock In.

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