YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by SyndieBot2000XL » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:32 pm

I ordered some YATMA2 pcbs on a lark (never had pcbs fabbed before, shocking how cheap it is) and now that I’m sitting down with them I see that the schematic has ic 2 as an lm358, but in the prototype pic it’s an mc1458. Sorry if this is a dumb question, but does it matter which one I use?

Also - I accidentally ordered way more than I need, so if someone wants one you can pm me and I’ll send it to you, no way can I find a use for ten of these things. Hopefully there’s no issue with the fab job, as I haven’t finished building one yet...
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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by elektrouwe » Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:39 pm

Better use an LM358 - it is specified for +5V single supply operation, and MC1458 datasheet says +-5V minimum. But obviously YATMA2 works with MC1458 too. I guess you can use almost any pin compatible,+5V capable opamp in this application, just give it a try (use a socket).

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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by SyndieBot2000XL » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:07 pm

Sweet! I have a pile of 358s, but was going to have to order 1458s, so this is great to hear :tu:
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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by SyndieBot2000XL » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:20 pm

Finally got around to assembling a couple of these, and they work really well.

Many thanks to the designers, it’s a beautiful little circuit that takes the pain out of this process.

I still have five extra pcbs after building two and giving a few away, so anyone that wants one PM me.

Edit: No, I don’t! I’ve been relieved of the *eight* extra boards I had. If someone else wants to be the YATMA2 fool for a while, they are extremely inexpensive to have fabricated by jlpcb because of the size. Thank you again to the designers :hail:
Last edited by SyndieBot2000XL on Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re:

Post by mrand » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:54 pm

Image
In this example we see 8 DUTs.
The best matched four are 1,5,6, and 7.
Best pair is 1 and 5.
Am I getting this right?
I tried to match transistors in the winter and gave up, couldn't keep a fixed temperature to save my life, so very interested in this method!
Thanks,
Colin.
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Re: Re:

Post by elektrouwe » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:56 am

mrand wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:54 pm
Am I getting this right?
yes :-)

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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by wackelpeter » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:50 am

1 and 5 look very good, but laso 2 and 4... if i would have too choose between the two i would rearrange the order so that each pair is sitting next to the other and both trannies of a pair are sitting next to each other and probe again with a smaller division and see if one of them is lcoser matched as the other.

But yes, perhaps with such close matching you will at one point enter territory where the difference becomes neglectable and other aspects of your circuit and build become more interesting.

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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by luchog » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:28 pm

Getting ready to build the smaller YATMA2. Does anyone have a BOM or Digikey/Mouser cart for this thing they can share?

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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by SyndieBot2000XL » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:00 pm

luchog wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:28 pm
Getting ready to build the smaller YATMA2. Does anyone have a BOM or Digikey/Mouser cart for this thing they can share?
I just went through the schem and made a list. The only weird thing is the USB port - the one Tayda has in stock fits it: https://www.taydaelectronics.com/usb-ty ... r-dip.html

You can get them from mouser but they’re like five times the price for one.
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Re: Re:

Post by KSS » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:55 am

mrand wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:54 pm
I tried to match transistors in the winter and gave up, couldn't keep a fixed temperature to save my life,
Arrange a muffin fan broadside AKA perpendicular so each DUT sees fresh fan air flow -next to each other, not in the wind shadow -front and behind each other- and match in a normal indoor thermostat controlled enviromnment. Better to match mid day or late evening when outside temperature is not quickly changing as it does in morning and evening.

Use of a fan settles the DUT temps quickly, and you don't even need to be especially concerned and use tongs as you do without this constant breeze across the DUTs. Forced fan airflow helps all the common synth transistor matching methods, not just YATMA.
Last edited by KSS on Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by luchog » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:16 pm

SyndieBot2000XL wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:00 pm
luchog wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:28 pm
Getting ready to build the smaller YATMA2. Does anyone have a BOM or Digikey/Mouser cart for this thing they can share?
I just went through the schem and made a list. The only weird thing is the USB port - the one Tayda has in stock fits it: https://www.taydaelectronics.com/usb-ty ... r-dip.html
Any chance of sharing that list? I'm not the best at reading schematics (really rusty), and the one posted earlier is kinda unclear in spots.

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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by SyndieBot2000XL » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:59 pm

luchog wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:16 pm
Any chance of sharing that list? I'm not the best at reading schematics (really rusty), and the one posted earlier is kinda unclear in spots.
R1 220r
R2 1m
R3 68k
R4 1m
R5 100k
R6 1m
R7 470k
R8 1k
R9 10k
R10 1k

C1 100n
C2 1n
C3 100n
C4 100uf
C5 100n

IC1 74HC125N
IC2 LM358

4 3x1 female headers
1 3x1 male header
1 2x1 male header

14 pin ic socket
8 pin ic socket

USB type-B female
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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by Picard » Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:37 pm

@elektrouwe - how it is possible to see these horizontal line segments for each dut at the oscilloscope since the signal is ac coupled thru C4 (original) or C3 (mini), respectively? :? :?

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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by elektrouwe » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:06 am

Picard wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:37 pm
how it is possible to see these horizontal line segments for each dut at the oscilloscope since the signal is ac coupled
AC-coupling is a 1.5Hz high pass filter. DUT scan frequency is about 1kHz, which means these horizontal segments are short enough to pass the
high pass filter without visible distortion.

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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by xaothewretched » Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:42 pm

SyndieBot2000XL wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:20 pm

I still have five extra pcbs after building two and giving a few away, so anyone that wants one PM me.
Hey SyndieBot2000XL
Did you still have any of these boards available?
Im starting to get to a point where I need to match these things.
Thanks.
Moose
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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by SyndieBot2000XL » Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:55 pm

xaothewretched wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:42 pm
SyndieBot2000XL wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:20 pm

I still have five extra pcbs after building two and giving a few away, so anyone that wants one PM me.
Hey SyndieBot2000XL
Did you still have any of these boards available?
Im starting to get to a point where I need to match these things.
Thanks.
Moose
I believe I do but I’m at work right now, so not %100. I’ll PM you once I get home in about an hour :tu:
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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by jurekprzezdziecki » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:50 pm

Hi guys, I have built the Yatma 1 tester but NPN / PNP connection is a little bit confusing for me.
So first of all, how do you guys put a 3 leg device inside the ZIF socket? Do you bend those 2 which are connected together? A picture would be much appreciated. Also how to jumper the NPN device? It goes to GND like tested diodes at the picture? Are the female wires patched the same as with diodes? Thanks.
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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by elektrouwe » Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:39 pm

jurekprzezdziecki wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:50 pm
... how do you guys put a 3 leg device inside the ZIF socket? Do you bend those 2 which are connected together?
yes, B and C legs are connected together on 1 ZIF side, and B leg vis-a-vis. Have a look at the picture on page 1. There you can see how diodes are fixed : cathodes (ring) are connected to GND via these black jumpers (JZx). The colored patch cables connect anodes to JDUT1.
In case of NPNs, use E as cathode and B + C together as anode - it's also sketched in the schemetics.

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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by man0111 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:49 pm

If anyone makes another order of these, I'll buy one.
I gotta take a minute here to say thanks to everyone out here since it's my first few posts. I've been lurking around here and electro-music for a long time and the knowledge sharing is immense, something that's occasionally awe- inspiring in the world we live in.

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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by jurekprzezdziecki » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:23 am

elektrouwe wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:39 pm
jurekprzezdziecki wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:50 pm
... how do you guys put a 3 leg device inside the ZIF socket? Do you bend those 2 which are connected together?
yes, B and C legs are connected together on 1 ZIF side, and B leg vis-a-vis. Have a look at the picture on page 1. There you can see how diodes are fixed : cathodes (ring) are connected to GND via these black jumpers (JZx). The colored patch cables connect anodes to JDUT1.
In case of NPNs, use E as cathode and B + C together as anode - it's also sketched in the schemetics.

Thanks, so coloured cables stay the same as with diodes, right?
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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by elektrouwe » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:43 am

jurekprzezdziecki wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:23 am
Thanks, so coloured cables stay the same as with diodes, right?
tak

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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by jurekprzezdziecki » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:09 pm

elektrouwe wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:43 am
jurekprzezdziecki wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:23 am
Thanks, so coloured cables stay the same as with diodes, right?
tak
It looks strange and I think there is a problem. This should not look like this...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by elektrouwe » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:01 pm

Jurek, if you measure only 2 DUTs instead of 8, you must connect the remaining 6 unused channels to the 2nd DUT.
Otherwise your AC voltage will jump like crazy, because ythe amp can only handle the small voltage differences between DUTs but an "open" DUT means +12V swing = overload of the amplifier.
Or connect 6 other transistors/diodes as dummy DUTs to avoid "open" DUTs.
To connect the unused 6 channels with your 2nd DUT, you can use 6 horizontal jumpers or female patchcables and connect all unused BC-"anodes".
Then you should see 1 voltage level from DUT1 followed by 7 identical levels from DUT2.
Have a look at page,1 pic.2, where I do this for a 5-Transistor array CA3086.

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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by jurekprzezdziecki » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:46 am

elektrouwe wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:01 pm
Jurek, if you measure only 2 DUTs instead of 8, you must connect the remaining 6 unused channels to the 2nd DUT.
Otherwise your AC voltage will jump like crazy, because ythe amp can only handle the small voltage differences between DUTs but an "open" DUT means +12V swing = overload of the amplifier.
Or connect 6 other transistors/diodes as dummy DUTs to avoid "open" DUTs.
To connect the unused 6 channels with your 2nd DUT, you can use 6 horizontal jumpers or female patchcables and connect all unused BC-"anodes".
Then you should see 1 voltage level from DUT1 followed by 7 identical levels from DUT2.
Have a look at page,1 pic.2, where I do this for a 5-Transistor array CA3086.
Thanks a lot for your invaluable help. Yes, the TL071 gets saturated, I have made some measurements in different points of the circuit.
Let me understand the way how to connect remaining unused channels - so I must short 6 remaining pins with jumpers horizontally to the 2nd DUT, right? This is what you mean?

Jurek
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Re: YATMA - Yet Another Transistor MAtcher ( for lazybones )

Post by elektrouwe » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:22 am

jurekprzezdziecki wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:46 am
... so I must short 6 remaining pins with jumpers horizontally to the 2nd DUT, right?
yes
But why don't you use 8 transistors ? they cost only a few cents and the strength of YATMA is that you can probably select 2...4 pairs
at once (!) from 8 DUTs and still be faster than other methods selecting 1 pair !

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