EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

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morbank
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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by morbank » Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:49 am

guest wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:08 pm
ok, can you measure the 12V and 5.333V rails on the x0xheart for slid and non-slid? if the CV is changing for the x0xheart, but the pitch is not changing, then the rails must be moving around.
- 12v with no accent/slide = I get mv that rise to 4v and then reset?
- 5v with no accent/slide = 4.91v

- 12v with accent/slide = I get mv that rise to 4v and then reset?
- 5v with accent/slide = 4.92v

Let me know if you need any other measurements?

Also, does it make any difference that the x0xb0x isn't grounded to my modular case?

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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by guest » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:09 am

the x0xb0x should be grounded via the patch cables.

that 12V doesnt sound right. it should just read 11.98V or something like that. are you measureing it right on the back of the x0xheart, J4? the 5.333V is a little off, but that could be a reasonable value. is that from J4 as well?
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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by morbank » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:14 pm

guest wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:09 am
the x0xb0x should be grounded via the patch cables.
Right. Of course.
guest wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:09 am
that 12V doesnt sound right. it should just read 11.98V or something like that. are you measuring it right on the back of the x0xheart, J4? the 5.333V is a little off, but that could be a reasonable value. is that from J4 as well?
Whoops, I was measuring J1. Here's the J4 measurements...

- 12v with no accent/slide = 11.66v
- 5v with no accent/slide = 5.22v

- 12v with accent/slide = 11.66v
- 5v with accent/slide = 5.22v

Those look much better!

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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by guest » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:22 pm

how did you wire up the CV out jack? where did you solder to on the board, and did you put any other components on besides for a jack?
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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by morbank » Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:12 pm

guest wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:22 pm
how did you wire up the CV out jack? where did you solder to on the board, and did you put any other components on besides for a jack?
I wired the tip lead of the new 1/8" jack to a 1k resistor and soldered the other end to to pin 2 on J5 on the x0x Heart. And the sleeve lead of the new 1/8" jack to pin 1 on J5.

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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by guest » Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:26 pm

when you took the CV measurement last time, was it at the jack or J5? if it was at the jack, can you retake the CV measurement at J5, just to see if its any different there for accent/no accent?
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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by morbank » Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:04 pm

guest wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:26 pm
when you took the CV measurement last time, was it at the jack or J5?
It was at the jack.
guest wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:26 pm
can you retake the CV measurement at J5, just to see if its any different there for accent/no accent?
The measurement from J5 is the same value with or without an accent present, 2.020v

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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by guest » Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:26 pm

ok, so the value only changes on the other side of the 1k? can you measure there again without it plugged into the next synth, and then once again with it plugged into the next synth. both with and without accents for both measurements.
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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by morbank » Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:51 pm

guest wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:26 pm
ok, so the value only changes on the other side of the 1k? can you measure there again without it plugged into the next synth, and then once again with it plugged into the next synth. both with and without accents for both measurements.
By “plugged into the next synth” do you mean unplug the “EXT IN” cable? If so I’m not seeing any difference in the measurements at J5 with the external synth connected or not connected, with accent or without. I only see a rise if I measure at the modded ‘Slid CV” output jack.

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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by guest » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:05 pm

ok, i think were talking about the same thing, but just to be sure: measure at the "slid CV out" jack you just described from J5 (at the other end of the 1k), for both accented and unaccented notes of the same pitch. then do this again with the CV out going to the dixie.
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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by morbank » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:45 pm

guest wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:05 pm
ok, i think were talking about the same thing, but just to be sure: measure at the "slid CV out" jack you just described from J5 (at the other end of the 1k), for both accented and unaccented notes of the same pitch.
Measured at the J5 on the PCB (before the resistor) I get 2.025v with or without an accent.
guest wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:05 pm
then do this again with the CV out going to the dixie.
Measured at the ‘Slid CV’ output jack’s tip lead (after the resistor) I get 2.037v without an accent, and 2.154v with an accent.

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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by guest » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:53 pm

is the last reading with it plugged into the dixie? if so, can you measure at the jacks tip lead without it connected to the dixie? you can also just try bypassing the 1k and see if the pitch tracks fine without it there.
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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by morbank » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:23 pm

guest wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:53 pm
is the last reading with it plugged into the dixie?
Yes, I was using a buffered Mult with one lead connected to my DMM and the other lead connected to the DIxie.
guest wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:53 pm
if so, can you measure at the jacks tip lead without it connected to the dixie?
Without the Dixie connected and no accent I get 2.037v. With an accent I get 2.154v.
guest wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:53 pm
you can also just try bypassing the 1k and see if the pitch tracks fine without it there.
Like try taking the 1k resistor out and see if I still get the pitch rise?

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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by guest » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:32 pm

thats really strange. yes, you can try taking the 1k out (or just clip across it with alligator clips) and see what happens.
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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by morbank » Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:02 pm

So odd... With the 1k resistor removed the pitch rise is gone?!?

You initially had me add the 1k to protect the x0x Heart. In what situation could the ‘Slid CV’ output get misused and damage the x0x Heart? Maybe it’s ok as long as I know what to avoid?

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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by guest » Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:20 pm

well, the original 303 didnt have a 1k protection resistor in it, so maybe its fine. whats odd, is that accent should not effect pitch accuracy in any way. and that 1k isnt effected by the accent either. somehow turning accent on causes a 100mV drop across that 1k resistor, so thats an extra 100uA of current flowing for some reason. im really curious now whats going on.
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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by guest » Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:22 pm

i wonder if the ground for the CV out isnt making good conection on the x0xheart, so its finding a different current pathway, and thats dependent on the accent?
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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by morbank » Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:31 pm

guest wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:22 pm
i wonder if the ground for the CV out isnt making good conection on the x0xheart, so its finding a different current pathway, and thats dependent on the accent?
Ok, I’ll have a look at my soldering...

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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by guest » Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:34 pm

you can also check with your multimeter. disconnect everything from the x0xheart except teh CV out cable, and measure the resistance from the sleeve to the ground on the x0xheart (another jack ground is probably fine).
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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by guest » Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:42 pm

also, were you going from the CV out to the mult to the dixie when the pitch shift was noticeable, or just straight from CV out to the dixie? a buffered mult should take care of any impedance issues.
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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by morbank » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:03 pm

guest wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:34 pm
you can also check with your multimeter. disconnect everything from the x0xheart except teh CV out cable, and measure the resistance from the sleeve to the ground on the x0xheart (another jack ground is probably fine).
I get 00.4 ohms

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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by morbank » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:04 pm

guest wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:42 pm
also, were you going from the CV out to the mult to the dixie when the pitch shift was noticeable, or just straight from CV out to the dixie? a buffered mult should take care of any impedance issues.
I got the pitch shift with both arrangements.

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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by guest » Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:49 am

ok, maybe we should try a minimal setup to eliminate any other possibilities:

1. plug only 3 cables into the x0xheart - pitch CV in, Accent gate in, and slid CV out.
2. use modules in the same case to generate pitch CV and Accent
3. run the slid CV out cable to your multimeter and nothing else
4. measure CV at slid CV out cable for both accent gate = 5V, and accent gate = 0V
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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by morbank » Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:51 pm

guest wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:49 am
ok, maybe we should try a minimal setup to eliminate any other possibilities:

1. plug only 3 cables into the x0xheart - pitch CV in, Accent gate in, and slid CV out.
2. use modules in the same case to generate pitch CV and Accent
3. run the slid CV out cable to your multimeter and nothing else
4. measure CV at slid CV out cable for both accent gate = 5V, and accent gate = 0V
The value at the Slid CV output is dependent on the voltage I send to the pitch input. With the voltage at the pitch input at 5v and the voltage at the Accent gate at 5v the measurement at the Slid CV output is 5v.

With the voltage at the pitch input at 5v and the voltage at the Accent gate at 0v the measurement at the Slid CV output is also 5v.

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Re: EURO x0x-heart - Complete "Kit"

Post by guest » Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:01 pm

so there is no change in the slid CV out in this case? if you run it at 2V, is there a change? if there is no change at 2V, then use the CV out from the x0xb0x again, and see if it changes.
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