[Order] TTSH Shapers Mod

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olga42
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Post by olga42 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:05 am

PM sent :75:

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heapish
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Post by heapish » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:10 am

fuzzbass wrote:
heapish wrote:One question, has this been tested on a v1 with sync fitted? As im aware that the sync mod could cause cross talk and tuning issues.
My personal TTSH is V1 with sync, so as soon as I have the protoboards here, it will be tested on that. I have had sync working on my synth for a couple of years now and I don't notice what you mention.

When I breadboarded this, I did not evaluate how it reacts when the sawtooth it tracks is being reset via sync, but should be interesting.

The real payoff will be using two sine waves for FM and Ring Mod (that and blowing your speakers with the sub :bananaguitar: )

THIS JUST IN: Protos are back from Seeed. I'll be putting one together tomorrow.
How dou have your sync setup?

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fuzzbass
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Post by fuzzbass » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:23 am

heapish wrote:
fuzzbass wrote:
heapish wrote:One question, has this been tested on a v1 with sync fitted? As im aware that the sync mod could cause cross talk and tuning issues.
My personal TTSH is V1 with sync, so as soon as I have the protoboards here, it will be tested on that. I have had sync working on my synth for a couple of years now and I don't notice what you mention.

When I breadboarded this, I did not evaluate how it reacts when the sawtooth it tracks is being reset via sync, but should be interesting.

The real payoff will be using two sine waves for FM and Ring Mod (that and blowing your speakers with the sub :bananaguitar: )

THIS JUST IN: Protos are back from Seeed. I'll be putting one together tomorrow.
How dou have your sync setup?
Somewhat conventionally. VCO1 is master, and VCOs 2 and 3 may be synced to it. Digging into the original question a bit more.... The Pulse, Triangle and Sine are all derived from the source sawtooth wave. If you sync your sawtooth core to a different VCO core, obviously the resulting sawtooth will be changed or distorted. This means all the waves derived from the synced VCO will show the effect in one way or other.

Cross talk in RE sync is usually observed as soft sync, where the synced VCO partially resets in response to the master VCO, when the sync switch is not engaged. You control for this by wire dress. Some folks use coaxial cable but I never found need of it.

When installing the shaper, the VCO1 and VCO3 core output signals are routed to it. This provides an opportunity for cross talk, but again you can control for this by wire dress.

Pitch problems arise when something comes in to influence the KBD CV signal, or system demand draws down the V+ or V- rails. The shaper is not using the KBD CV signal, and all or our testing showed no degradation of the power rails.

I don't see any impact at all with the shapers on the master VCO and this is why using the sync master VCO is a good choice as default source for the sub oscillator.

I have not really played with sync and shaping a lot other than to notice that the good ole sawtooth output provides the classic sync sound. That is to say I'm not sure there is a pot of gold at the intersection of sync and wave shaping. Others may prove me wrong.

The shaper benefits, as I see them, are:
1. Triangle and Sine waves as modulation sources, now applicable to triangle and sine waves. Sine * sine in the ring mod, for sci fi effects.
2. A divider circuit which can function as an audio sub oscillator, or a gate / event divider.
3. Classic PWM in VCO2, finally!
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heapish
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Post by heapish » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:20 pm

What i said was told to me by a tech guy who installed it on mine...
I bet he didnt use any wire protection. I'll have a play with it when I take everything apart fit the shaper.
(I am competant, I just didnt have time to do it myself)

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Sammus
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Post by Sammus » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:05 pm

Has anyone been invoiced yet? Just checking I wasnt accidentally skipped :)

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fuzzbass
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Post by fuzzbass » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:45 pm

Sammus wrote:Has anyone been invoiced yet? Just checking I wasnt accidentally skipped :)
Sorry I just got the boards back from manufacturing. I'll try to send invoices tomorrow morning. I ready to start shipping now. Busy summer!
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Sammus
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Post by Sammus » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:54 pm

fuzzbass wrote:
Sammus wrote:Has anyone been invoiced yet? Just checking I wasnt accidentally skipped :)
Sorry I just got the boards back from manufacturing. I'll try to send invoices tomorrow morning. I ready to start shipping now. Busy summer!
No need to apologise, no hurry!

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fuzzbass
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Post by fuzzbass » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:09 am

Invoices are out for current batch. I still have plenty of kits, if anyone else is interested...
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heapish
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Post by heapish » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:12 pm

Paid! :)

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Post by gruvsyco » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:42 pm

PM'd

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fuzzbass
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Post by fuzzbass » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:51 am

All paid orders as of 22 July 2017 have been shipped.

I still have kits left!
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heapish
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Post by heapish » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:28 am

Received. UK. Thank you. (Don't forget about customs charges guys. I'm not bother but just letting you know! £18.28)
:party:

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fuzzbass
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Post by fuzzbass » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:46 pm

heapish wrote:Received. UK. Thank you. (Don't forget about customs charges guys. I'm not bother but just letting you know! £18.28)
:party:
That is a huge bite, like close to half of the listed value. Any idea why there is such a steep tariff? Should I be classifying this differently?
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heapish
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Post by heapish » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:40 pm

fuzzbass wrote:
heapish wrote:Received. UK. Thank you. (Don't forget about customs charges guys. I'm not bother but just letting you know! £18.28)
:party:
That is a huge bite, like close to half of the listed value. Any idea why there is such a steep tariff? Should I be classifying this differently?
I think its just VAT (value added tax). Like how all the Music equipment is a 3rd cheaper in the US....but then add postage and import it comes back to the same if not more. I bought some cool Dr Marten Desert boots from the US because they where "cheaper". They cost me £10 more by the time they got here.
I'm at work now, what did you class it as? I'll have a look on the net to see if it makes a difference. Ive tried claiming some back before, but it was a real back and forth on ther telephone, in the end i decided my time was worth more.

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fuzzbass
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Post by fuzzbass » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:45 pm

heapish wrote:
fuzzbass wrote:
heapish wrote:Received. UK. Thank you. (Don't forget about customs charges guys. I'm not bother but just letting you know! £18.28)
:party:
That is a huge bite, like close to half of the listed value. Any idea why there is such a steep tariff? Should I be classifying this differently?
I think its just VAT (value added tax). Like how all the Music equipment is a 3rd cheaper in the US....but then add postage and import it comes back to the same if not more. I bought some cool Dr Marten Desert boots from the US because they where "cheaper". They cost me £10 more by the time they got here.
I'm at work now, what did you class it as? I'll have a look on the net to see if it makes a difference. Ive tried claiming some back before, but it was a real back and forth on ther telephone, in the end i decided my time was worth more.
I didn't use the uniform coding, mainly because I got exasperated trying to find it online. Numerous documents and powerpoints explaining what it is however!

I listed contents as "Electronic Parts NOPB".
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nosotokarjazzy
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Post by nosotokarjazzy » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:33 am

Received in france :banana:
need to finish ttsh before including this mod .. 8-)

thanks fuzzbass

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fuzzbass
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Post by fuzzbass » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:07 am

nosotokarjazzy wrote:Received in france :banana:
need to finish ttsh before including this mod .. 8-)

thanks fuzzbass
If not done already, read the install doc. You don't want to completely finish your TTSH because panel disassembly is required while installing your shaper.
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fuzzbass
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Post by fuzzbass » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:41 am

Bass Compensation for VCF Resonance.
As resonance is increased in the VCF, and filter cutoff moves above bass frequencies, there is a pronounced rolloff of low frequency content in the VCF output. The following method uses the Sub Oscillator in audio mode to compensate.
1. Set up conventional patch. Run VCO1 output through VCF with typical filter sweep configuration (using ADSR CV at filter) and filter resonance set somewhere above 50%, to taste. Then VCF signal up to 100% at audio input 1 in VCA. Set up VCA envelope response to taste. This should result in bass roll-off as you play down the keyboard.
2. With the Sub Oscillator input normalled to VCO1, set octave control to -1 ( or 1:2), and offset select switch to Audio mode.
3. Connect Sub Oscillator output to input of Lag Processor and set lag control to minimum. This will provide some crude low pass filtering to the sub signal, with the result being an approximation of a triangle wave. Adding wee amounts of lag here will roll off high end from the sub signal.
4. Connect the Lag Processor output to the second audio input of the VCA, and adjust the level control to taste.
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Post by Zensac » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:28 am

Received mine yesterday (Denmark). No customs charges, so I consider myself lucky this time! :-)

Kit looks very nice. Thank you, Fuzzbass.

I'm nearing completion of my TTSH V3 and have already begun to plan were to put the extra switches and jacks. I ordered a bunch of different slide switches from various AliExpress vendors and I now have some that fits between the panel and PCB.

I will use fuzzbass' recommended panel positions for the new oscillator waveform outputs. For the sub osc controls, I was thinking about placing them below VCO1:

Image

I haven't installed the speakers yet, so I'm not sure if the sub osc controls will be able to fit, but I like the position below VCO1, since I will be using VCO1 as the prepatched Sub In.

I have also planned three separate sync mods (built on breadboard), each with a 3 position slide switch.

For the ADSR and AR range mods, I will be adding slide switches to each of envelope 'boxes' on the frontpanel. For this to work, I decided to make new panel stickers, replacing the existing text with 'ADSR ENV' and 'AR ENV', to make room for the slide swithes.

Needless to say... I will be measuring very, very carefully first, to make sure that everything fits (ie. no PCB components obstructing the swithches, etc).

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nosotokarjazzy
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Post by nosotokarjazzy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:55 am

I'm finally testing the board with my ttsh.
Powered with the ttsh, vco 1 & 3 in plugged, and some jumpers as discribed in the installation doc.

I scope the outputs, and evrything seams working fine.

Except something not expected : both sine wave are 20vpp instead of 10vpp.
Strange behaviour, because triangle are 10vpp.
Sub working great btw.

Doesn't seam normal.. What is wrong ? I'm a bit lost here :hmm:

Image

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fuzzbass
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Post by fuzzbass » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:08 pm

nosotokarjazzy wrote:I'm finally testing the board with my ttsh.
Powered with the ttsh, vco 1 & 3 in plugged, and some jumpers as discribed in the installation doc.

I scope the outputs, and evrything seams working fine.

Except something not expected : both sine wave are 20vpp instead of 10vpp.
Strange behaviour, because triangle are 10vpp.
Sub working great btw.

Doesn't seam normal.. What is wrong ? I'm a bit lost here :hmm:

Image
Should be 10Vp-p Check R24, R38 (10k5), these set the gain of the first stage op amp in the sine shaper. Second stage gain is set by R26, R40 (10K) but this stage should be unity gain.

All four stages are on the TL074 -

Inputs:
2: sine1 stage 1
6: sine1 stage 2
9: sine3 stage 1
13 sine3 stage 2

Outputs:
1: sine1 stage 1
7: sine1 stage 2
8: sine3 stage 1
14 sine3 stage 2

Also check:
R15, R34 (75k)
R16, R51 (2k2)

the 75k and 2k2 divide the output of the triangle section for input to the differential pair. If one of these is wrong or missing, it could overdrive the sine shaper.

Here is location info:

Image
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nosotokarjazzy
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Post by nosotokarjazzy » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:00 pm

Thanks for your answer Fuzzbass :tu:

I've double checked (code color & mesuring on board) all the resistor you've mentioned :
- R24, R38 (10k5) : ok
- R26, R40 (10k) : ok
- R15, R34 (75k) : code color ok, both measured at 5k7 *
- R16, R51 (2k2) : ok

* I guess when mesuring on board I also measure R13, R14 and R16 (for sin1). If i'm right the equivalent resistance of this is about 6k. With tolerances ... could be the right measured value ?

Here are the views when i scope o/i for sin1 (same shapes for sin2) :

Input Stage 1 / Input Stage 2 / Output Stage 1 / Output Stage 2
ImageImageImageImage

:hmm: Are the inputs and outputs normal ? :bang:
Last edited by nosotokarjazzy on Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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fuzzbass
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Post by fuzzbass » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:52 pm

nosotokarjazzy wrote: :hmm: Are the inputs and outputs normal ? :bang:
No you should be seeing a sine coming off the matched trannies (ex: collector of Q3). Move further in that direction.
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nosotokarjazzy
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Post by nosotokarjazzy » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:20 am

After seaching evrywhere on the PCB, changing trannies, changing TL074 ..

Do you think i could change R24 & R38 values ? Because except for the gain, the sine shape looks good ..

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fuzzbass
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Post by fuzzbass » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:16 am

nosotokarjazzy wrote:After seaching evrywhere on the PCB, changing trannies, changing TL074 ..

Do you think i could change R24 & R38 values ? Because except for the gain, the sine shape looks good ..
If you want to ship the board back to me I'll take a look. PM if interested.
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