73-75 Serge panels from Zthee

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Skilling
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Post by Skilling » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:11 am

diophantine wrote:What sort of range are people getting on the Negative Slew?

I intended to calibrate mine the original way, with the max frequency at 1kHz on the top one. But, it maxed out at around 900Hz. And that that frequency, the min frequency was around 6Hz - waaay too high for me.

Now I have them both calibrated to 500Hz max, which gives a min period of around 7-8 seconds.

Is that similar to what others have?
I'm also interested in this. Mine behave the same and it seems that it does for quite a few of us. Still, it's not the range it supposed to be, right?

Could it be because of using 50k pots instead of 25k?

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Post by nateflanigan » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:50 pm

What davies style knobs are folks using that fit nicely on the 6mm d shaft alps knobs from the BOM?

*edited for clarity*

ashleym
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Post by ashleym » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:28 pm

ishi wrote:
ashleym wrote:Perhaps he could do some runs of Voice, Control and Preset panels and boards? This would help fund some built versions. I base this on the Homebuilt having sold OK numbers.
I've asked that same question. Waiting for an answer...
Sample Two-Panel System

I think there is an answer when you scroll down here. (No doubt this is posted somewhere else, i always seem to be behind the times).

I hope this is just a typo or my misunderstanding.....

Panel 1 PCB / Front 1 PCB
Panel 2 PCB
Errata

I think this means panels and PCBs for both :sadbanana:

Plus Homebuilt is cheaper

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cygmu
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Post by cygmu » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:01 pm

That is interesting... hadn't seen that before. Thanks for pointing it out!

The Sample Two Panel System had a page on the old Human Comparator web site for years and never appeared. I got the feeling that Random Source's developments had pushed it aside since it overlaps with their module selection quite a bit. Interesting that it should pop up now. It's not the same stuff as the other three proposed 73-75 panels of course -- much more like Serge 78 than 73-75.

Edit: the old THC page for it is still there
http://thehumancomparator.net/wordpress ... el-system/

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ishi
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Post by ishi » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:43 pm

Hmm... yes, fair amount of money. Combined with this warning: "Please note that this project is very hard!"

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Post by rampy » Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:40 pm

ishi wrote:... Combined with this warning: "Please note that this project is very hard!"
I'm not sure that it would be "very hard", but I wouldn't consider the sequencer/programmer an easy build for someone that is relatively inexperienced.

The Two Panel System covers a lot of ground, and I like the addition of the VCFS. I would LOVE to see the remaining 73-75 in DIY format. Maybe one day...

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Post by johnchantler » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:52 am

I think the “very hard” is because there are some fixes required that I’m sure will be detailed in the ‘errata’.

Really great selection of modules in those two panels and whilst pricing seems high it’s probably not that different to what you’d pay for the 13 separate PCBs required and two custom panels.

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cygmu
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Post by cygmu » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:49 am

It’s not available any more anyway.

Serge pooped up on Facebook to say that he didn’t like the idea of people DIYing some of these modules and the sale was taken down.

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the bad producer
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Post by the bad producer » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:00 am

:razz:

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Junko
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Post by Junko » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:38 am

edit: see new post below
Last edited by Junko on Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cygmu
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Post by cygmu » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:20 am

I should probably edit my post above that says “pooped up” to “popped up” which is almost certainly what I intended. But it’s funny so no.

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Post by Jonachi » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:59 pm

Haha, I’m pretty sure he did both since his reaction to this makes no sense what so ever. Most of these modules has been licenaed to kem stone for years and NOW all of the sudden is not ”made for diy” since we cant match transistors lika in a lab/plant. Well you can log on to facebook and enjoy his comments I guess. So much for ”the peoples synthezeiser”...

I for one has lost most of my respects for the man since he obvioussly has zero respect for diy and all of us building his stuff for years.

I might have at least 6 boats for sale in a near future...

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Post by ashleym » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:33 pm

I’m not on Facebook so his comments there are invisible to me.

We have had some form of diy Serge for about 45 years, that’s not a bad run. There’s still CGS etc. We don’t know what arrangements he’s got with Random Source and how that affects things. Perhaps in coming back to this world he’s not happy or had a change of mind. Haven’t Buchla started looking more closely at clones?

I won’t be selling any of my “Serge” after a post I haven’t seen. What happens with the 2 panels happens. I know there’s guidance on cloning somewhere here. I like to think it’s nice to respect the licensing or original designer. Having said that if part of the concerns Serge has is our building skills/tools, I will say to him “thanks snd don’t worry, there’s a lot of skill out there with some pretty good test gear compared to the hobbyist of yesteryear”.

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ishi
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Post by ishi » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:16 pm

It's getting a bit strange on the FB thread.. all Serge's comments were deleted, supposedly at his request.. :despair:

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Post by luchog » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:10 pm

So...

I'm strongly considering finally pulling the trigger on the Homebuilt set, but I'm still wembling a bit on it. It seems a hair... unbalanced. Admittedly, I'm still very new to the Serge design philosophy (I have a pile of R*S EuroSerge, but haven't had much chance to really dig into it); but why three Envelope Generators? I would like to have a dedicated filter, but since the Positive/Negative Slew will do low-pass filtering that lack is not a deal-killer.

But three EGs? If one of them had been replaced with a Smooth and Stepped Function Generator then I wouldn't hesitate, the decision would be much more obvious. Is there something I'm missing, or is there something the panels are missing?

I guess I'm just hoping for a fairly complete standalone system, and this doesn't really look like one to my inexperienced eyeballs.

auxren wrote: Image
auxren wrote:The knobs are available at allronics if you search aluminum knob on their site.
Allronics does not appear to carry these anymore. Anyone know of another source?

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Post by Jonachi » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:34 am

ishi wrote:It's getting a bit strange on the FB thread.. all Serge's comments were deleted, supposedly at his request.. :despair:
Well mine dissapeared as well since they were in his thread. I guess he can’t stand critisism..??

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Post by ashleym » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:08 am

luchog wrote:So...


But three EGs? If one of them had been replaced with a Smooth and Stepped Function Generator then I wouldn't hesitate, the decision would be much more obvious. Is there something I'm missing, or is there something the panels are missing?

I guess I'm just hoping for a fairly complete standalone system,
For this era of Serge it is sort of complete. The envelopes will loop, it’s the patch programmability you get used to. Look at it as having loads of envelopes/LFOs/filters with the slews and envelopes. These also get up to audio rates, this gives you more oscillator options to think of!! The VCO won’t track brilliantly. The panels make a hell of a racket and give you results you can’t (pedants forgive me) elsewhere. For my music Serge works with “regular” synths.

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Post by diophantine » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:57 am

luchog wrote:I'm strongly considering finally pulling the trigger on the Homebuilt set, but I'm still wembling a bit on it. It seems a hair... unbalanced. Admittedly, I'm still very new to the Serge design philosophy (I have a pile of R*S EuroSerge, but haven't had much chance to really dig into it); but why three Envelope Generators? I would like to have a dedicated filter, but since the Positive/Negative Slew will do low-pass filtering that lack is not a deal-killer.

But three EGs? If one of them had been replaced with a Smooth and Stepped Function Generator then I wouldn't hesitate, the decision would be much more obvious. Is there something I'm missing, or is there something the panels are missing?

I guess I'm just hoping for a fairly complete standalone system, and this doesn't really look like one to my inexperienced eyeballs.
Sure, there's a few things that would make this system "more complete" (including a '73 VCF and SSG), but there's still a lot going on.

Also, while they're called "Envelope Generators", the EGs offer a whole lot more... voltage-controlled frequency, voltage-controlled "cycle" (for LFOs, burst generators, etc... and does audio rate), hold input (which can give you all kinds of weird waveforms), and a voltage-controlled comparator (which can give you gate delays, correlated gates, PWM, etc.)

So think of them as dedicated modulation sources. Use them individually, or patch them up together, or whatever you like! You'll definitely use them, and I'd be shocked if you (or anyone) didn't enjoy them.

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Post by Junko » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:19 pm

I have a question regarding the potentiometers and the resistors.

On the PCB it says 25K, but the mouser number on the BOM links to 50K pots, so that is what I’ve got now.

After reading a bit I’ve understood that if you use the 50K pots you should also replace the 22K resistors with 47K. But what I do not understand is – does this apply to all the modules or should I only swap the resistors on the Envelop Generators?

:despair:

(the mouser nr on the BOM is 688-RK09D1130A1L for the 50K pots)

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Post by luchog » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:51 pm

ashleym wrote:For this era of Serge it is sort of complete. The envelopes will loop, it’s the patch programmability you get used to. Look at it as having loads of envelopes/LFOs/filters with the slews and envelopes. These also get up to audio rates, this gives you more oscillator options to think of!! The VCO won’t track brilliantly. The panels make a hell of a racket and give you results you can’t (pedants forgive me) elsewhere. For my music Serge works with “regular” synths.
diophantine wrote:Sure, there's a few things that would make this system "more complete" (including a '73 VCF and SSG), but there's still a lot going on.

Also, while they're called "Envelope Generators", the EGs offer a whole lot more... voltage-controlled frequency, voltage-controlled "cycle" (for LFOs, burst generators, etc... and does audio rate), hold input (which can give you all kinds of weird waveforms), and a voltage-controlled comparator (which can give you gate delays, correlated gates, PWM, etc.)

So think of them as dedicated modulation sources. Use them individually, or patch them up together, or whatever you like! You'll definitely use them, and I'd be shocked if you (or anyone) didn't enjoy them.

Yeah, Serge stuff is definitely flexible, and there's a lot that can be done with it. Complex LFO is one that jumps immediately to mind. It's just that, after the R*S euro stuff, I feel like I'm really going to miss having an SSG.

It's not like I'm looking for anything "musical", since again I have the Euro stuff for that. I think it would help if there was some idea when, or if, the other panels will be released.

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Post by ashleym » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:17 pm

Junko wrote:I have a question regarding the potentiometers and the resistors.

On the PCB it says 25K, but the mouser number on the BOM links to 50K pots, so that is what I’ve got now.
?

:despair:

(the mouser nr on the BOM is 688-RK09D1130A1L for the 50K pots)
50k is fine. Have a look what they do in a circuit and you’ll see their value is flexible. It’s onlt one set of resisters you have to change. You’re on the right path!

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Post by Junko » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:01 am

ashleym wrote:
50k is fine. Have a look what they do in a circuit and you’ll see their value is flexible. It’s onlt one set of resisters you have to change. You’re on the right path!

Thanks! I finally managed to figure out which ones to swap. I've circled them in these pictures for other ppl to see in case someone else has the same question.
So the 22k resistors marked with yellow and red in these schematics should be swapped for 47k if you use 50k linear pots.

This goes for Envelope Generator, Oscillator, Positive and Negative Slew.
PS. Bytes ej is swedish and means do not change

Image

Image

Image

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Post by 2197 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:36 am

Junko wrote:Thanks! I finally managed to figure out which ones to swap. I've circled them in these pictures for other ppl to see in case someone else has the same question.
So the 22k resistors marked with yellow and red in these schematics should be swapped for 47k if you use 50k linear pots.
Great! Thank you for figuring this out – my mind was also boggling about it.

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Post by nateflanigan » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:45 pm

I'm a little confused about the power supply voltages is it +12/-12/+6 or +15/-15/5 the text says 12 but the schematic shows 15. Can anyone clarify this?

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Post by GrantB » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:59 pm

nateflanigan wrote:I'm a little confused about the power supply voltages is it +12/-12/+6 or +15/-15/5 the text says 12 but the schematic shows 15. Can anyone clarify this?
Serge is typically 12

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