Is this how to sell a TTSH?

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fuzzbass
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Is this how to sell a TTSH?

Post by fuzzbass » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:36 am

I have zero problem with anyone selling a value added build of the TTSH on Reverb.com:

https://reverb.com/item/5172619-arp-260 ... MJw&pla=1#

But it's a wee bit odd that 75% of the description is just a paragraph I wrote describing the finer points of the gate booster. Kind of like selling a car by describing its hubcaps.
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Post by lasesentaysiete » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:39 am

so this isn't your ad, you're saying?

It has happened to me many times that something I sold someone (usually a DIY module) has been put up for sale by that same person at a higher--sometimes substantially higher--price than I sold it for.

Not really much I (anyone) can do, that's why for me its important that I feel comfortable with the original sale price. If the buyer then wants to turn around and use some detail of the initial sale to their advantage, I guess they're welcome to do so.

I think the reverb ad's mention of "threads" is an obvious sign that that text is lifted, too.

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Post by nigel » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:54 am

It does say, "This is taken from the muffwiggler thread by the gate boosters designer.", so I don't think he's trying to hide anything. (Although he could have mentioned you by name, at least.) But I agree that it's an odd detail to spend most of the review on.

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Post by fuzzbass » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:01 am

Not my ad, and I don't object to being quoted either. I just think its weird that the buyer will learn more about the booster than the TTSH.

Here's hoping Rick Wakeman sees it. His R&RHofF [acceptance speech] was the best ever.
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Post by lasesentaysiete » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:04 am

yeah you'd think people would give a high value sale the attention it deserves, but...

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Post by sduck » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:35 pm

None of those pictures he's using are of his builds - they're shots of the first one I built, with it's especially sloppy wiring. I sincerely hope his wiring is better than that first one I built - mine got a lot better with the second one onward.
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Post by fuzzbass » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:43 pm

sduck wrote:None of those pictures he's using are of his builds - they're shots of the first one I built, with it's especially sloppy wiring. I sincerely hope his wiring is better than that first one I built - mine got a lot better with the second one onward.
Now you gotta wonder if this is even legit. Actually if he is selling someone else's work as his, its not!
Last edited by fuzzbass on Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by sduck » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:44 pm

I sent him a message, essentially what I wrote above - we'll see if he responds.
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Post by fuzzbass » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:58 pm

sduck wrote:None of those pictures he's using are of his builds - they're shots of the first one I built, with it's especially sloppy wiring. I sincerely hope his wiring is better than that first one I built - mine got a lot better with the second one onward.
I think your wiring looks fine but those rainbow zip ties made my head explode.
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Post by leeski » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:11 pm

:eyes: :eyes:
«:::A:::» «:::W:::» «:::E:::» «:::S:::» «:::O:::» «:::M:::» «:::E:::»

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Post by Synthiq » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:51 pm

sduck wrote:None of those pictures he's using are of his builds - they're shots of the first one I built, with it's especially sloppy wiring. I sincerely hope his wiring is better than that first one I built - mine got a lot better with the second one onward.
I seriously doubt it is even legal to use someone else's photographs commercially without their permission.

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Post by sduck » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:03 pm

Sure it's "legal", and people do it all the time.
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Post by Synthiq » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:34 pm

sduck wrote:Sure it's "legal", and people do it all the time.
People drive faster than the speed limits all the time, so it must be "legal" too? But seriously, photographs are protected by copyright laws and are not placed in the public domain unless the photographer explicitly says so.

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Post by Fubard » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:05 pm

The guy isn't completely awful, he fixed my busted ttsh for me. That's not to say his listing practices aren't lazy but he could have just kept the thing.
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Post by sduck » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:33 pm

I asked him to give me credit for the pictures or remove them. Apparently I didn't ask politely enough for him - he basically razzed me. I've re-asked, hopefully more "politely" - hopefully he'll respond in a more polite fashion. This is getting stupid...
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Post by Synthiq » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:02 am

sduck wrote:I asked him to give me credit for the pictures or remove them. Apparently I didn't ask politely enough for him - he basically razzed me. I've re-asked, hopefully more "politely" - hopefully he'll respond in a more polite fashion. This is getting stupid...
Maybe it isn't him you should contact but the website where he advertises. They may take them down if he doesn't willingly do so.

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Post by flts » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:19 am

The demo video is from Reginator as well. I suppose he doesn't need a permission to embed an Youtube video (unlike with using photos by someone else) but basically he's marketing own work with pictures, videos and text almost completely lifted from others.
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Post by hamildad » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:32 am

Would you buy a car from a guy who listed the advert with pictures of someone elses car?

Would you use an architect who advertised using pictures of houses designed by someone else?

Go straight Reverb.com and tell them you are unhappy that pictures of your items are being used to sell someone elses work.

This is illegal for a licenced company to do this under advertising regulations, so although person to person sales may be exempt, the hammer could come down on Reverb.com as a storefront site.

also the 'right' way to do this is to build one, then ask the purchaser if you can use this a portfolio piece.
the purchaser will get loads of care and attention on his/her synth as it's going to be photoed, and the seller can be happy that not only can he get great photos, but the purchaser can give a reference of work to any potential customers...

but this doesn't seem the right way to sell a TTSH at all, and as I used sducks wiring photos for inspiration when building mine, I'd like to see people posting their TTSH builds without the photos being used without permission.


thankfully no ones going to use a photo of my tolex job, uuuurrrgghhh.. :cry:
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Post by fuzzbass » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:26 am

hamildad wrote: Go straight Reverb.com and tell them you are unhappy that pictures of your items are being used to sell someone elses work.
Illegality schmillegality!

I have not read the user agreement, but no doubt this is against the rules at Reverb.com and sduck, a person with tremendous but not unlimited patience, has something to report if he chooses. You see he has given the seller, who does build and sell synths, two chances to adjust this.

I build and sell TTSH synths. In a customer transaction (or in pursuit of one), I would never post any photo publicly or privately of any synth other than one I built. It's building craft my customers are paying for. I also spend a lot of time up front making sure my customer understands what they are getting, and signs off on every single build deviation.

[oh yeah and free Shapers shameless plug sorry!] :nana:

I have no doubt the seller is here among us, and I have no desire to shame him or put him on the defensive. I just wish he would be a bit more transparent with his customer, because it affects all trusted builders when he is not. If he knows how to build this but just does not have a competed unit to take a picture of, he should simply state where the photo came from, just as he did with the Booster text.

He should also be clear about which version of TTSH he has to offer, the one shown is V1 and pretty sure kits for those are rare as hens teeth.
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Post by flts » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:23 am

fuzzbass wrote:He should also be clear about which version of TTSH he has to offer, the one shown is V1 and pretty sure kits for those are rare as hens teeth.
FWIW Jon had a clearout sale of a bunch of v1 "minor blemishes" type kits on his site a short while ago, before completely stopping selling DIY kits. Although if someone is building units based on those (and not his own "new old stock") it'd probably be a good idea to mention the panel has blemishes.

That's what I was actually thinking about as well though, he must have some kits in stock as they aren't sold anymore, so might as well tell the prospective buyers what version they'd be getting. It doesn't look the listing is too good or thorough in any case, so I suppose any details would be divulged via private discussion.
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Post by fuzzbass » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:23 pm

hamildad wrote:thankfully no ones going to use a photo of my tolex job, uuuurrrgghhh.. :cry:
Gave up on Tolex. There are lots of glue solutions but the only one that does not react with Tolex in a self destructive way is animal hide glue. I am not up to the process on that stinky nasty hot glue crap.

There are countless youtubes from crusty old guitar amp diy dudes that show you how to use neoprene based contact adhesive to apply tolex and how easy it is! None of these losers ever posts any follow up video showing how their work starts separating after but a few weeks - but believe me IT DOES.
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Post by fuzzbass » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:47 pm

Said listing on Reverb.com is no longer. :woah:
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Post by sduck » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:37 pm

Yes, reverb pulled it so that the seller could provide non-copyrighted pictures, or provide credit for the ones he's using. I've had quite a few exchanges with the seller - I've been trying to be polite with the guy, but he's not making a similar effort. I just wrote him a fairly long diatribe about how my little photo business works, and how copyright applies to my pictures and just about everything else out on the web. Don't know if he'll read it. Judging from our exchanges anything past 8 words is too much.
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Post by flts » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:39 am

fuzzbass wrote:There are countless youtubes from crusty old guitar amp diy dudes that show you how to use neoprene based contact adhesive to apply tolex and how easy it is! None of these losers ever posts any follow up video showing how their work starts separating after but a few weeks - but believe me IT DOES.
Offtopic but:

My tolex jobs with normal contact cement we get here have been fine so far. Although I do spend time thinking about where to actually put the seams, use an upholstery stapler to staple the "hidden" end of tolex inside the case, apply corner braces et cetera. I haven't noticed anything starting to separating in a matter of weeks.

Maybe it's about type or manufacturer of adhesive (water vs solvent based), kind of tolex one uses, or some kind of technique related thing? I don't know. Tolex feels a bit fussy and I'd rather use something else these days (Warnex / Duratex?) purely for functionality, but for a certain retro look it's cool and I haven't had problems getting it to stay where it is.
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Post by hamildad » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:19 am

fuzzbass wrote:
hamildad wrote:thankfully no ones going to use a photo of my tolex job, uuuurrrgghhh.. :cry:
Gave up on Tolex.
Ha!, I saw your recommendations on this thread, and used the 3M 80 aerosol.

viewtopic.php?t=160559

the stuff I wanted to use was Flints Cyclorama and mural adhesive, but you could only buy it in 5L tubs.

my seams were pretty rubbish but the front plate was nice... so I called it a win.

(back to topic)
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External PSUs and DC jacks are the hallmarks of toys. - Graham Hinton.
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I am one of the "tiny fraction of a percentage of oversensitive idiots" who feels the name of this site sends the wrong message.
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This is primarily for melody and historical educational purposes - Analogue Music

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