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Post by Moog$FooL$ » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:31 pm

that "translator board" sounds like a good idea..... too bad it's not gonna work. :bang:

at least the "Dixon plate" will work..... i believe you've used that before. :tu:
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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:27 pm

Oh, the translator board would work. I just don't want to waste several hours laying it out, when it's not going to save me any time wiring. All it would achieve would be to make the wiring a bit more tidy looking.

EDIT -- I got the core filter boards attached to the panel PCB this morning with a stooge plate. That part was pretty easy. However, when re-attaching the panel, I managed to rip apart one of the toggle switches, because I had stupidly removed the strain-relieving inner nuts from the bushings. I had to completely disassemble the panel again, solder-suck and remove the destroyed switch, and replace it (I only had one PCB-mount On-On SPDT switch left in my stores -- definitely time for a Small Bear order!). I put those inner nuts back on, and lo and behold, the spacing is better with them in, and it's more or less impossible (or, at least, much more difficult) to rip the switch apart when tightening the outer nut.

Anyway, it's all back together now, and I have plenty of space between the panel PCB and the stooge plate to plug in MTA connectors without removing the plate. Now I have to start wiring (but I'm nearly out of MTA crimp pins -- gotta call Lee's). Hopefully by tonight I'll be able to test the basic filter, and then I'll make the multimode boards, and their 32 little chiclet boards.

EDIT 2 -- I started wiring. It's pretty easy with the stooge plate so far away from the panel PCB. Also, I tore apart an old attempt at a Rubicon build, and I was able to reuse nearly all of the wires and crimp pins, so I won't run out of pins for this build before my order comes in on Friday. Will finish wiring this morning (June 26) and have something to test.

EDIT 3 -- Basic wiring now complete, everything worked perfectly the first time. The only issue is that the CLIP LED resistor is too small (2.4k) and the clip light is coming on dimly well before the input signal is clipped. I'm going to have to experiment with this resistor to find the right value that just starts to glow when clipping starts. Fortunately, this resistor is at the top of the panel PCB, so I won't have to take the module apart to change it -- I'll just have to exercise some advanced dexterity with my needle-nosed pliers, etc.

Next steps: Make the Multimode boards and chiclets, and get all those working. Final steps, make all the scanner boards (all 8 of them) and get the scanning stuff going. I'll make the Multimode boards this evening and start stuffing them. There's going to be a lot of cutting on my bandsaw for the chiclet boards (after I do all the drilling). Kinda looking forward to it, in a masochistic sorta way.

EDIT 4 -- So, lastnight I was going to make a couple of Multimode boards, but I went out for Vietnamese lunch with my daughter, and I overate (plus, I had a bubble tea with pearls), and my pancreatitis (which has been at a low simmer for the last couple of weeks) kicked in big time, so I spent the rest of the afternoon and most of the evening in bed. By the time I got up it was too late to do anything. I'm feeling better today, so we'll see. As long as I'm not in the way of the painters who have taken over our house, I should be able to get something going.

EDIT 5 -- Finally feeling good again! Tonight I made the two Multimode PCBs (16 channels each) and the 32 chiclet boards for the gain resistors. It all worked out very well. Tomorrow I stuff and test.

EDIT 6 -- I put the basic filter all together, and it all works perfectly, so far. I'm happy to report that the 32 different modes (which I can only access one-at-a-time with an alligator clip) all have pretty different characters, so morphing them may actually prove worthwhile.

The only real issue is that, given that I have 8 more PCBs to pile onto the stack, the complete module is looking like it's gonna be about 10 inches thick. It will even stick out the back of my thick-ass case. Stacking all the PCBs vertically may not be the best idea. I may have to come up with a way to hang 2 or 4 of them off the side of the stack -- I have some room since the PCBs are generally about 2" wide, but the module is 3.5" wide (2U). Anyway, this is just a crazy prototype thingy, so it doesn't really matter -- only a lunatic would want to mass-produce this thing. Also, I may be able to get away with some shorter standoffs to tighten the spacing a little bit and maybe lose an inch or so from the thickness of the stack. We'll see.

I'd post some pictures, but I need my iPhone charge cable, which is at home (I'm at "work") so I won't be able to post anything until I get home tonight. I promise I'll stop editing this posting then. :lol: :oops:
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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:01 pm

So, here's the progress so far on the Polaris project (except I didn't take a picture of the panel -- d'oh!).

Here are all 32 of the mode "chiclets" ready to plug into the two multimode PCBs:
Image

Here is the plugging-in scheme for the chiclets on the two PCBs:
Image

Here is the back of the Polaris so far, showing the panel PCB, and the stack of four circuit PCBs: the two core filter boards, and the two multimode boards with all 32 chiclets plugged in in their proper locations. Notice that two of the long standoffs are wrapped in electric tape. This is because the chiclets nearest to them were threatening to touch them.
Image

Finally, it is very important when stuffing 32 different chiclets, each with a unique set of gain ratio resistors, to keep the resistors well organized. Here's how I did that:
Image

So now, all I have to do is to make 8 more PCBs -- two for the 4-channel scanner and six for the (quad) 8-channel scanner -- and load them on the stack and do some minimal wiring. They should stack pretty tightly, so maybe I'll be able to keep this thing from protruding out the back of my case.
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Post by Moog$FooL$ » Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:43 pm

:woah:

:sb:
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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:43 pm

So, I got the 4-channel scanner (the "bank selector") installed, and it all works well, except that I had used two 49.9k resistors in place of the intended 24.9k resistors in the control circuit (they look a bit similar, with yellow and white stripes -- I must've been tired). I found those by probing the entire circuit and realizing that some of the voltages were wrong. Also, more problematic, the little 1" fader I used on the panel is garbage (it was salvaged from another device, and I evidently didn't test it before installing it -- big mistake, lesson learned). It seems to work correctly between about 25% and 100%, but at 0% it snaps to the middle voltage. This makes the scanning all wrong, obviously. Also, the CV/Fader summing opamp was screaming like a banshee, but an 18pF cap across the feedback resistor cured that. I'll add that to the layout (although I don't recall having that problem before).

Anyway, I tested the circuit with a pot, and it all works perfectly. I just have to order another fader. Next, I'll build the 6-PCB 4x8-channel scanner circuit and get those installed, and then this mad project will be done. I don't actually have a laundry-room sink right now, because that room is being tiled, so I can't etch any boards tonight.

EDIT -- I bought and installed a new 1" fader, and it all works perfectly now. I won't have a laundry room sink until the weekend, so no more PCBs until then.

I'm going to have to figure out a better way to mount so many boards onto the back of this module, or else come up with layouts for fewer, bigger boards, or something. The stack of boards on the back of this thing is freakin' ridiculous! I really wish that 5U panels were in units of 2" instead of 1.75", because then a 2U panel would be 4" wide, and I could use double-wide layouts (my layouts are all either 2.1" wide or 4" wide, and the 2.1" ones can be squeezed down to 2" by sacrificing a bit of empty space on the outside of the ground trace which always goes around my layouts. I can essentially put two 2.1" x 5" PCBs onto a single 4" x 5" PCB, which would cut the number of boards in half for this build, but I can't mount 4" wide PCBs behind a 3.5" wide panel unless I do it perpendicular, which is a real pain).
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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:47 am

The laundry room is now all put back together, so I can make boards again. However, lastnight I was visited by severe pancreatitis, complete with sharp pain and vomiting, so today I just basically sat around and napped. Hopefully tomorrow is Board Making Day.
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Post by Moog$FooL$ » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:33 pm

well..... hopefully u r feeling better.

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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:18 pm

Here are a few little discoveries I have made in the last few days while finishing up my massive handbuilt Polaris project:

1) When stacking a bunch of boards using hex spacers (the kind that screw into each other), don't tighten the spacers with a nut driver or wrench. Simply tighten them finger tight. If they are tightened down, they tend to bite into the PCB and the mounting holes are never perfectly aligned. This causes the spacers to take on a slight angle, so that by the time you have 4 or 5 PCBs stacked up, they will become increasingly difficult to put on the spacers. If the spacers are just finger tight, then all the PCBs slide on with ease (and I have 12 PCBs stacked up on my Polaris). There is no danger of them coming loose.

2) When using pin headers to take power and/or signals from one board to the next in a stack, don't bother with those female-to-long-pin strips that you have to cut with an x-acto knife and break and always lose a pin in-between and end up with ugly rough edges. Simply put two parallel rows of holes on your PCB, and use simple short-pin females on one row and pins pointed downward on the other. This makes every board have female upward and male downward. With this method, you can stack as many boards as you want and transfer rail power from board to board with ease. The trick is to stagger the position of the females and the males from board to board (i.e., females out, pins in on one board, then females in and males out on the next, etc.). It takes up slightly more board space, but it's super worth it.

3) Before putting the downward-pointing pins on the next PCB in the stack, place the board on top of the stack using the proper hex spacers, then slide the pins into their holes and plug them into the female sockets below. The pins will probably be too long, so simply slide the little plastic bits down the pins with your fingertips until they are flush with the PCB. Then remove the board from the stack and solder the pins -- they will now be the perfect length.

Those last two discoveries have been a life changer for me. It will make my builds oh so much cleaner and easier and faster.

This post was also posted to the Small Discoveries thread.

EDIT -- One more discovery I forgot to mention. When I prepare PCB material for printing, I generally hit it with acetone (because I find it has a film of some sticky shit on it), then give it a sanding with a scouring pad. However, I am noticing that I'm getting a lot of unwanted printing between the traces, which is a real pain. However, I think I've cured it: After scouring, scrub the boards real well with Vim (a mild abrasive detergent) and a wet paper towel -- no more unwanted printing.
Last edited by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch on Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:22 pm

New Progress:

I made three of the six 8-channel scanner boards -- the control board, the logic board, and one of the 8-channel boards. They turned out great, and I'm just about to go wire them up and confirm my layouts. If all works, then I will make three more 8-channel boards today and this will finish off the module.

It's stupidly deep, and will get a bit deeper -- it will definitely stick out the back of my case, but I don't care -- it was just a dumb project to keep me outta trouble. It has been a lot of fun (so far) and I've learned an awful lot about building modules with stacked PCBs (see the last post).

If I just took the two 16-mode boards out of the stack and did something else with them, the stack would get a whole lot shorter. I'll give it some thought.

EDIT -- After a bit of troubleshooting (another dodgy fader, a cold-solder joint on a connector pin, and a very persistent solder bridge), the 8-channel scanner works perfectly. So now I'm printing the last three boards -- 8-channel boards to buik up the scanner to 4 x 8 or 32. I may have this thing done tonight!

EDIT 2 -- Boards turned out perfectly, and I got them all jumpered up, and ready to stuff. Will finish Tuesday morning.
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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:41 am

It is finished. Here it is from the front:
Image

and here it is from the side:
Image

I'm not going to tell you how deep it is... I'll just leave you with this song:
[video][/video]
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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:07 am

Here are some observations:

1) This is obviously a stupidly large build. However, it's kinda cool and I learned a ton doing it, so it was definitely worth it.

2) When building anything anywhere near as complex as this, it is imperative that you test and trouble shoot as you go. I got fairly lucky with this build. Here were the problems I encountered (if I remember them all):

a) The short (1") fader was dodgy -- I had to buy a new one to replace it. The bad part was that I had to disassemble the panel to get it off.

b) The long (2") fader was also dodgy -- I had to pick another one out of the bag. I salvaged all of these 2" faders from a couple of those discarded equalizer panel boards they sell on Electronic Goldmine, and some of them are junk. Again, this required disassembling the panel. Luckily, disassembling the panel is a breeze -- the most annoying part is actually removing and replacing the knobs.

c) There was one pin (to the number 7 LED) that had a cold solder joint. One has to be very careful soldering those header pins -- they don't take solder all that readily. By the time the solder flows, the black plastic thingy starts to melt and the pin starts to go crooked.

d) There was a bridge that was almost invisible. It wasn't a solder bridge, but rather an unwanted bit of transfer between two pads that was very hard to see, especially after it was soldered up.

e) There was a dodgy 2164 chip on the B bank 8-channel board (the third one from the end) that was causing the output to be all negative and highly distorted. I was lucky that replacing this chip was the first thing I tried, and it worked (I've danced that dance before).

That's about it! Not too bad for such a gargantuan build with so many (so many) parts. Also, all of my layouts were correct. The only kludge was that I had to add a stabilizing capacitor to one opamp on the 8-channel scanner control board, and there was no convenient way to add it so I soldered it across the feedback resistor. I have since added it to the layout, on both scanners.

3) The thing about staggering the pin headers and female sockets is super super cool and the very best thing I learned doing this build.

4) Here is a picture of my hookup wire collection. Notice anything about it? Hint: It's a big help when I have several numbered connections to make.
Image

You may notice the little holes drilled in the platform (which is an old teflon cutting board). That was my original way to prevent the wires from flying all over the place. However, it wasn't so good, as the wires were underneath the board, making it wobbly, and it just didn't work that well. What I do now is much better. When I get a new spool of wire, I drill a 3/32" hole in the spool, just next to the lip. Then, when I am done using the spool, I thread the end of the wire through that hole, and it keeps the wire very tidy on the spools and makes storing the whole thing a breeze. There's your tip for the day.

I'm sick of looking at this thing tonight. Tomorrow I'll try to make a video, if I can get some peace with all the tradesmen here doing our home renovations.
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Post by thresholdpeople » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:55 am

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:It is finished. Here it is from the front:
Image

and here it is from the side:
Image

I'm not going to tell you how deep it is... I'll just leave you with this song:
[video][/video]

That looks amazing! 3D scanning array... Looking forward to hearing how it sounds swapped around through all those filters.

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Post by Moog$FooL$ » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:58 pm

i prefer it in the front!!!

not so much in the side. :razz:

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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:17 am

Sorry I've been incommunicado lately -- well, the forum was down for a time -- I've been pretty sick with pancreatitis, and haven't done a single goddamn thing for a week. However, hopefully this will start to change today.
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Post by filtermod » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:44 pm

Get better soon! Thanks for all of the knowledge you share with us!

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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:26 am

Some of you may be wondering, "Where the hell is Doc Sketchy?" Well, I've been pretty quiet around here lately for a couple of reasons. One is that I haven't been feeling all that well, but I'm feeling better now. The other reason is that my house is in the final stages of a massive renovation -- basically, 98% of the work is done, but we haven't been able to start moving our stuff back in yet, so almost everything we own is in a big box on the driveway.

Hopefully, next week we will start moving back in properly. I'm waiting until this process is more or less complete before I start posting stuff again, because Sketchy Labs is moving from my garage to the spare room over the garage and I don't want to do anything in the garage right now, because it's a disaster.

Also, school is starting next week, so I'm going to be quite busy getting my course ready.

I'll start posting again in two or three weeks. Try to stay strong.
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Post by indigoid » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:15 pm

hey that looks pretty cool, hopefully the pancreatitis will stay away and you'll have time to make a YouTube video!

did you do anything to add mechanical support to the whole assembly? I can't see much in the pics. There's quite a lot of module hanging off that front PCB...
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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:54 pm

indigoid wrote:hey that looks pretty cool, hopefully the pancreatitis will stay away and you'll have time to make a YouTube video!
I'm feeling good now, finally, and starting to get shit cleaned up in the lab. However, admittedly, I've been pretty lazy on the video front. I find the process maddening.
did you do anything to add mechanical support to the whole assembly? I can't see much in the pics. There's quite a lot of module hanging off that front PCB...
No, the whole thing hangs off of the panel PCB, but of course the panel PCB is connected to the front panel by a whole lotta pots. It's strong enough.
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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:13 pm

Today, 25 October 2019, is Jon Anderson's 75th birthday. Jon Anderson is one of my all-time musical heroes.

Happy Birthday, Jon Anderson!!! :band:

Image
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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:16 pm

(Incidentally, my 55th birthday is in four days :omg: )

I also just wanted to note that there will be quite a bit of new stuff on this thread in the next couple of weeks. I'm working on a fairly crazy vocoder project for a local musician buddy, and it's going to have some fairly interesting and unconventional twists. Fully analog, of course. So stay tuned, bitches!

I'll just leave you with this little picture -- the vocoder will have one of these. Anyone care to guess what this is for? (I haven't even completed the layout file -- this is just the raw layout plan.)

Image
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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:29 pm

...Also, the vocoder will have two of these -- this board has eight complete vocoder BP channels (of a total of 16, plus LP and HP channels and some other supporting circuitry) -- don't pay any attention to the capacitor values -- they are just placeholders -- I haven't put the actual values in yet:

Image

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Post by cackland » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:04 pm

Exciting

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Post by Dave Kendall » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:33 pm

Great to see you back designing and making boards again Doc ! :)
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Post by Moog$FooL$ » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:44 am

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:Today, 25 October 2019, is Jon Anderson's 75th birthday. Jon Anderson is one of my all-time musical heroes.

Happy Birthday, Jon Anderson!!! :band:

Image

uummmn..... yur doin it wrong.

that's Andy Summers dooderz!! :razz:
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Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:54 pm

Moog$FooL$ wrote:uummmn..... yur doin it wrong.

that's Andy Summers dooderz!! :razz:
Ha ha.

Actually, Andy Summers will turn 77 on the last day of the year. Kinda makes ya feel old when all your rock and roll heroes are pushing 80.
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