Something New from Doc Sketchy

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KSS
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by KSS » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:50 pm

Zener knee can be quite soft. 5V1 has best response on that parameter.

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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:50 am

For clarity, I should say that I meant 1N4730 (3.9V), 1N4731 (4.3V), and 1N4732 (4.7V), and NOT 1N4370 (2.4V), 1N4371 (2.7V) and 1N4372 (3.0V). I mistyped in my original post. It's anybody's guess why they made the numbers of these zeners so confusingly similar.

I understand that the knee can be soft, but given the same resistor from 15V (3.3k), even with soft knees, the same kind of zeners should give roughly the same voltages. And, assuming a 3.9V zener, a 3.3k resistor from 15V to the zener gives a current of 3.36 mA, and while this is well below the "test" current of 20 mA, it is not an insubstantial amount of current.

I actually tested a bunch of zeners tonight (1 1N4728 (3.3V), 3 1N4730s (3.9V), 1 1N4731 (4.3V), 2 1N4732s (4.7V), 2 1N4733s (5.1V), and 1 1N5237 (8.2V)), using 8 different resistor values (220R, 470R, 1k, 2.2k, 3.3k, 4.7k, 10k, 20k) with a 15V supply. Here are the results plotted as zener voltage vs true current (in log scale):
Zeners.png
Obviously, there is a lot of spread in the 3.3, 3.9 and 4.3V zeners, and the latter two never reach their nominal voltages. The two 4.7V zeners were different kinds (with different markings), and one was very good and the other was not so good. The 5.1V zeners were both very good and very similar. The 8.2V zener was pretty good.

So, looking at how badly the 3.9V zeners performed, the weird thing is that I used 3.9V zeners in my first two frequency shifters (including the one I'm using now) and the VCO waveforms are very close to the desired 10Vpp, suggesting that the 3.9V zeners I used are generating zener voltages very close to 3.9V (probably about 3.70 to 3.75V) with 3.3k resistors and 10V sources (giving true zener currents of a little less than 2 mV). I must have just gotten very lucky. Incidentally, those were zeners I had in my stash, while the 3.9V zeners I tested tonight were ones that I bought yesterday at Lee's. This suggests that the batch that Lee's bought are all pretty crappy, but the ones I had sitting around are pretty good.

It's very enervating.
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:54 pm

So, after a lot of messing around, I've decided that I'm just going to go with 1N4733 5.1V zeners, which will generate waveforms of 12.3Vpp, except for the sine waves which will still be about 10Vpp. The slightly larger waveforms have no deleterious effect on the multipliers, so why not?
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by KSS » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:51 pm

:tu: Everybody knows "louder" sells! :mrgreen: Dude, these knobs may only go to 10, but the sound goes to TWELVE!

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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by devinw1 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:15 am

But.......ours go to eleven!

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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by KSS » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:06 pm

Pfft.. Only eleven? Them 're sad bstrds. 12 is the new 10!

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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:22 am

Honestly, I don't know why I've been so adamant about all my waveforms being exactly 10Vpp. It really doesn't matter if they are 12Vpp or whatever. And 5.1V zeners are superior to all other voltages because they have the lowest temperature coefficient. They also evidently have the lowest variation in voltage with current (and this is also confirmed by a plot in The Art of Electronics -- actually, it might be 5.6V that has the absolute lowest variation). Of course, when used in a zener bridge in a Dixie or Rubicon core, the tempco of the zener actually has no effect, because if the amplitude of the waveform increases, the rate at which the triangle integration occurs also increases, so the two end up canceling each other out (the comparator threshold gets higher, but the integration goes faster, so the frequency is actually insensitive to the zener voltage). I sometimes design things right.
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:43 pm

To everyone who has requested 4U boards for the Frequency Shifter: It's going to be another week or so before I get my act together. Things got busy on other fronts. Sorry, and thank you for your patience.
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:28 pm

Well, my first overseas Frequency Shifter customer has received his unit, and it looks as if I have a second order. Keep 'em comin'!

Also, I'd love to sell one of my 5U Quad Function Generators. I just updated the layout a little bit to make the jackboard and EOC LEDs less cramped in the back of the module, and it is now really skookum! $500 for that one. (It will look slightly different than the one in the picture -- the two rows of jacks will be slightly closer together with only one row of text and no horizontal line between the two rows, and the EOC LEDs will be shifted down and slightly to the left, to a 45-degree angle with the EOC jacks.)
15_Finished_QPG.jpeg
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:03 pm

I just made a set of 4-channel noiseless interpolating scanner PCBs for another Wiggler. $30 US plus shipping, and I throw in some of the hardware for free. Let me know...

Also, I'm just about to start building sold Frequency Shifter number 3. This one will be for a DotCom system. I'm making everything except the panel, which will be supplied by a third party based on my layout.
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:35 pm

Delivered the Dotcom-format Frequency Shifter this morning. It is going to Kansas to get a Moog-y panel, and then to its final destination in California. It turned out really well. I finally figured out how to properly calibrate the multipliers, and it makes a significant difference to the performance (as you'd imagine), plus, it's really easy to do.

In case you didn't notice, I was banned for a week, but I'm back, baby! I've actually been quite busy with my real job lately, so electronics has taken a bit of a back seat (although I got that FS built pretty quickly). Hopefully this weekend I'll get that 4U-format FS layout done, though.
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Thorsday » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:16 pm

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:35 pm
Delivered the Dotcom-format Frequency Shifter this morning. It is going to Kansas to get a Moog-y panel, and then to its final destination in California. It turned out really well. I finally figured out how to properly calibrate the multipliers, and it makes a significant difference to the performance (as you'd imagine), plus, it's really easy to do.

In case you didn't notice, I was banned for a week, but I'm back, baby! I've actually been quite busy with my real job lately, so electronics has taken a bit of a back seat (although I got that FS built pretty quickly). Hopefully this weekend I'll get that 4U-format FS layout done, though.
Welcome back, Doc! 🍾

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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:33 pm

Thorsday wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:16 pm
Welcome back, Doc! 🍾
Thanks, man! Now let's just see if I can keep all my opinions to myself long enough to stick around. This new "regime" is pretty strict.
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Prunesquallor » Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:19 am

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:33 pm
Thorsday wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:16 pm
Welcome back, Doc! 🍾
Thanks, man! Now let's just see if I can keep all my opinions to myself long enough to stick around. This new "regime" is pretty strict.
Living on the edge. 8-) I'd wondered why you'd gone quiet. Good to see you around again!
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:28 pm

Hey Team, I'm thinking about a modification to the Frequency Shifter module. This new one would not have an onboard oscillator on it, but would instead be driven from an external VCO. This would lower the cost of the shifter significantly.

Is there any interest in this new concept? I'll try to throw a prototype together this weekend for demonstration purposes.
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by maltemark » Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:44 pm

If feasible to build as 3u :3
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:35 pm

maltemark wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:44 pm
If feasible to build as 3u :3
Should be. In fact, the boards could be made quite small, but they're still 2" wide. Behind a 10 or 12hp panel, it would work just fine. It would still be a little deep, though, so probably not skiff friendly.

Heck, maybe I'll work up a eurorack prototype this weekend, just for shits and gigs.
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Prunesquallor » Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:17 am

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:28 pm
Hey Team, I'm thinking about a modification to the Frequency Shifter module. This new one would not have an onboard oscillator on it, but would instead be driven from an external VCO.
Must the external VCO be quadrature?
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:21 am

Prunesquallor wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:17 am
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:28 pm
Hey Team, I'm thinking about a modification to the Frequency Shifter module. This new one would not have an onboard oscillator on it, but would instead be driven from an external VCO.
Must the external VCO be quadrature?
No. That's the whole point. You just treat the external VCO as a second audio source with its own Phase Displacement Network. The only thing is that the two PDNs may need to operate over different frequency ranges, because you still want good VCO quadrature down into the LFO range for phaser duties. The PDN circuit is very compact:
New 90PDN Guide Pic.png
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Leverkusen » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:09 am

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:28 pm
Hey Team, I'm thinking about a modification to the Frequency Shifter module. This new one would not have an onboard oscillator on it, but would instead be driven from an external VCO. This would lower the cost of the shifter significantly.

Is there any interest in this new concept? I'll try to throw a prototype together this weekend for demonstration purposes.
I would be interested in the new concept and might finally order one in 5U. Could it be also smaller then - more like a classic ring modulator, just expanded? Two inputs, three outputs plus a feedback and a mix knob?

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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:57 pm

Leverkusen wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:09 am
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:28 pm
Hey Team, I'm thinking about a modification to the Frequency Shifter module. This new one would not have an onboard oscillator on it, but would instead be driven from an external VCO. This would lower the cost of the shifter significantly.

Is there any interest in this new concept? I'll try to throw a prototype together this weekend for demonstration purposes.
I would be interested in the new concept and might finally order one in 5U. Could it be also smaller then - more like a classic ring modulator, just expanded? Two inputs, three outputs plus a feedback and a mix knob?
What would the three outputs be? SUM, MIX and DIFF? In fact, I never use the SUM and DIFF outputs. I always just use the MIX output, often hard-panned to either SUM or DIFF. Eliminating those two outputs, along with all the other changes, would really tighten things up -- this new concept could actually be 1U. Also, the unit should have a WET/DRY control, although an outboard crossfader would also work.
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by McIntosh » Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:47 am

I would really love to see a 3u frequency shifter designed by the good doctor! I have almost all the modules he has designed from intellijel, this would really compliment my system greatly. Shame intellijel passed on it! i'll buy one from the doctor instead!

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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:01 pm

McIntosh wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:47 am
I would really love to see a 3u frequency shifter designed by the good doctor! I have almost all the modules he has designed from intellijel, this would really compliment my system greatly. Shame intellijel passed on it! i'll buy one from the doctor instead!
I'm going to try and make something happen on that front. I don't build eurorack format modules by hand, but I'm enquiring about some other possibilities. I'll keep you updated.
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by Moog$FooL$ » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:59 pm

surely someone out in euro world would take on this project.... no??
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Re: Something New from Doc Sketchy

Post by B0bcat » Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:01 pm

Euro DIY option would be fantastic
WTB:
Malekko/Wiard Oscillator / Anti / Borg (Gargoyles),
Plan B Model 12 / 13 / 15,
Macro Machines Storage Strip,
Intellijel FlipFlop

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