Ryk M185 Sequencer - per step repeat and gate mode

[ryk]

Yeah okay, I shouldn't have pushed my luck with two builds. First one was A-Ok, and then I build the next one, running into all sorts of weirdness (but hopefully from a common source).

Any direction is much appriciated!

Sorry to hear about the problems.
It is hard to tell from the video, but are the green LEDs 'dancing' about whilst you adjust the 8-way switches and the pots.
One quick test, could you try putting the PIC from the working unit into the 'weird' unit, to check there is no problem with the PIC.

ryk

[gaston]

Thanks for the answer, yeah, we can call it dancing hehe. Another very strange thing that happens is that if I have the max stages to 8, and the tempo set to bottom CCW, the sequencer will just run one stage (#1), then when increasing the tempo the sequencer starts running 8 stages again. It’s like the controls kind of affect each other in some kind of way.

I unfortunately needed to sell the other one rather quickly, but hindsight is 20/20 and should have of course waited until I had both built in case of exactly this scenario.

Maybe I should start trying to fix the #7 pot and take it from there, any tips which components could be involved in that issue?

[ryk]

Maybe I should start trying to fix the #7 pot and take it from there, any tips which components could be involved in that issue?

Hi
You mentioned in the previoud post that the #7 pot test ok, how did you test it ?

The only problem now is that you have something crazy going on with the stages control, hence
the dancing green LEDs, so it will be dificult to set the HW test to Stage 7 for testing.

So first we need to fix the dancing green LEDs.
One the panel PCB, orientated with LEDs at the top, viewed from the component side.
Please check for continuity to GND on the top pin of R3 [ please use a GND on the Main PCB ]
Also check for continuity on LHS pin of VR2 [ tempo ] and LHS pin of VR1 [gate time ]

When the HW test mode is stable:
To test #7 pot, I would recomend, starting the seq in HW test mode.
Then use the rotary stages control to set stage 7.
Use a DC meter to check the voltage on D8 and the centre PIN of VR5 [ #7 [pt ]
Also check the reading of the bottom pin of VR5, [ the PIN nearest the LEDs ]

[gaston]

Hi
You mentioned in the previoud post that the #7 pot test ok, how did you test it ?

Yes, sorry, might have been a bit unclear. I tested it the first time I booted it up, the module seemed okay and I could go through all switches and pots in HW-mode. All checked out except #7 (VR5). Then I rebooted it, and the all around weirdness started.

So first we need to fix the dancing green LEDs.
One the panel PCB, orientated with LEDs at the top, viewed from the component side.
Please check for continuity to GND on the top pin of R3 [ please use a GND on the Main PCB ]
Also check for continuity on LHS pin of VR2 [ tempo ] and LHS pin of VR1 [gate time ]

R3 checks out, 5v bottom pin, 0v top pin.
Also LHS pin on VR1 and VR2 reads 0v. Checking against a GND pin on the power-pinheader on the main panel.

[gaston]

Hmm, maybe this can be helpful information.

I powered it on (without any buttons pressed), stopped the sequencer, used the "next" button to get to Stage 7. Turned the pot to full CW. And checked D8, and VR5. (Against main pcb GND)

VR5 middle pin gives positive 4.81v.
D8 bottom pin gives around ~2v (!) negative, fluctuating between -1 and -3 very irregularly..

Checking neighboring stage 6, D11 and VR6 with same settings gives 4.81v positive on both bottom pin D11 and middle pin VR6.

I actually replaced D8 with a new diode but got identical results, so at least a faulty diode is ruled out.

[ryk]

R3 checks out, 5v bottom pin, 0v top pin.
Also LHS pin on VR1 and VR2 reads 0v. Checking against a GND pin on the power-pinheader on the main panel.
Top

Can you check continuity to GND for these, not the voltage.

VR5 middle pin gives positive 4.81v.
D8 bottom pin gives around ~2v (!) negative, fluctuating between -1 and -3 very irregularly..

Checking neighboring stage 6, D11 and VR6 with same settings gives 4.81v positive on both bottom pin D11 and middle pin VR6.

I actually replaced D8 with a new diode but got identical results, so at least a faulty diode is ruled out.

That sounds like D8 is not connected to VR5.
Can you check continuity between the bottom leg of D8 and the middle pin of VR5, they should be connected.

[gaston]

Can you check continuity to GND for these, not the voltage.

Oh, okay, sorry, I'm still pretty new at this stuff so didn't catch that.
But yes, multimeter set to continuity check, getting beeps at LHS pin on VR1 & VR2, as well as R3 top pin, against GND power pin on main panel.

That sounds like D8 is not connected to VR5.
Can you check continuity between the bottom leg of D8 and the middle pin of VR5, they should be connected.

And here no beep, no continuity - as expected bottom pin D11 and middle pin VR6 gets a beep (for reference).

[ryk]

That sounds like D8 is not connected to VR5.
Can you check continuity between the bottom leg of D8 and the middle pin of VR5, they should be connected.

And here no beep, no continuity - as expected bottom pin D11 and middle pin VR6 gets a beep (for reference).

Oh dear.

You will need to fix the track between D8 and VR5, is it broken ?
Just solder a small piece of wire betweem them to repair the conection. [ see blue track on picture ]

Screen Shot 2020-07-01 at 17.03.36.png

For the stages control, it sounds like something is wrong with the rotary switch.

Can you take apart the PCBS, and performs some checks on the Panel PCB.
Please check for continuity between the centre [ square ] pin [ on the uderside of the Panel PCB ] and the marked
header PIN [ both marked in light blue, see PIC below ]

If this is ok then:
Check for continuity between the centre [ square ] pin [ on the uderside of the Panel PCB ] and the numbered pads
for each switch position.

Screen Shot 2020-07-01 at 17.10.51.png

[gaston]

Oh dear.

You will need to fix the track between D8 and VR5, is it broken ?
Just solder a small piece of wire betweem them to repair the conection. [ see blue track on picture ]

No sign of it being broken, but soldered a small bridge and now the pot works like the others!

For the stages control, it sounds like something is wrong with the rotary switch.

Can you take apart the PCBS, and performs some checks on the Panel PCB.
Please check for continuity between the centre [ square ] pin [ on the uderside of the Panel PCB ] and the marked
header PIN [ both marked in light blue, see PIC below ]

Yes, it checks out.

If this is ok then:
Check for continuity between the centre [ square ] pin [ on the uderside of the Panel PCB ] and the numbered pads
for each switch position.

And also each switch position checks out. Hmm.

[ryk]

Yes, it checks out.
And also each switch position checks out. Hmm.

Ok.

Can you put the module back together [ carefully ]
Power up into Hardware Test mode.

On the Main PCB check the voltage on PIN 25 of the PIC chip for each setting of the the rotary switch.
It should go from 0v to about 4.9v crom 1 to 8.

28pin_DIL.png

If not check the voltage on the pin below of the highlited PIN header on the Main PCB

Screen Shot 2020-07-01 at 19.28.00.png

If nothing here also, then the is a problem with your PIN header soldering or tracks.



Check for the same voltage on the Panel PCB PIN Header highlited on the pic below.

Screen Shot 2020-07-01 at 19.30.11.png

[gaston]

If not check the voltage on the pin below of the highlited PIN header on the Main PCB

Bingo. I have no idea how this happened, but on the socket for the PIC chip, the metal connector for pin 25 was pushed out so the pin didn't reach the bottom of the pcb/soldering area, removed the solder on the pad, pushed it back through and reapplied the solder, and now it seems to work perfectly - passed the hardware test with flying colours.

And, thanks for your time so much, top notch support. Happy the error was simple in the end, a bit embarrassed that it was and that I missed it when rechecking, but yeah, thanks

[ryk]

Bingo.

[sduck]

This box had been sitting there untouched for a week or so, and was second in line, so I was ordering the parts for the first in line option, and decided "maybe I'll take a look at this while I wait for the parts to come in". Well, the parts aren't here yet, but this thing got done, fast and easy. This is a superbly put together kit, incredibly good documentation, and the overall build and feel of th final product is sublime. So much attention to details - the matching black hardware is off the hook!

DSC00817-2.jpg

IMG_1249.JPG

IMG_1303.JPG

And everything works, it calibrated up perfectly. What pops into my head now is that if you came up with a 16 step version of this it would be a super monster killer!

IMG_0631.JPG

[xahdrez]

Built my version of this today whilst waiting for parts on another project - all went well, and functioning almost as expected - but struggling to calibrate the main CV (CV2 has done so nicely). Once the reading on step 5 on CV1 is set to 5v, its not possible to get to 1V for step 5 (gets to around 1.3V), so it's not properly quantising. In the hardware check mode steps 1-4 all work as expected, but the pots on steps 5-8 will allow the red led to go up to step 8, but will never go back down below the green led afterwards. Suspecting a loose joint somewhere, but after a fair amount of digging I've not managed to locate anything yet - any ideas on where to focus? Have tried to follow the signal path but don't think I've fully got it sorted.

Only things of note with the build are I've got one of the early board and have not updated the sysex (assuming this is not the cause) and my rotary switch in my kit was possibly missing a leg (the bottom of the centre two) but again don't think this is that significant?! Any ideas?

[synth.void]

It was all good, until it wasn't. After an hour of playing, the sequencer stopped reacting to the stage switch, being stuck on stage 1.

I reworked some of the joints on both boards, and it's back to life, but strangely the switch now reacts to pressure. Well, it behaves differently each time I plug it in.

Could it be a problem with the switch? But I blame my soldering skills first of course.

Here's a video:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0BTnb9p ... uisenstadt

Hello.

As this and the push button switches are made of plastic, you have to be fairly quick with the solder iron, otherwise
it could damage some of the mechanism.
Did you solder the pins for a long time ?

PM me your details and I can see if we can send you a new switch.
But taking them out is pretty hardcore, involving disassembling the switch, before pulling out each internal pin one by one from the inside.
Not for the faint hearted . . .

For the record, ryk helped me out and the module works perfectly fine now kudos for the awesome service

[scrichton]

Does anyone know if there is a "reset all to default" keypress option? I cannot get rid of note slew.

It would appear that in 2v and 5v quantised mode although the steps have portamento off, there is slew on the notes from one to the other. Un-quantised 5v is ok.

If I enter the menu mode, all lights off. I have also attempted to set the shortest gate per step. Out of menu gate is lowest as is the global portamento control.

In the setup mode, I have a minor scale selected and all other options are off.

It's starting to drive me mad!

Any help is appreciated.
Steven

[ryk]

Does anyone know if there is a "reset all to default" keypress option? I cannot get rid of note slew.

It would appear that in 2v and 5v quantised mode although the steps have portamento off, there is slew on the notes from one to the other. Un-quantised 5v is ok.

If I enter the menu mode, all lights off. I have also attempted to set the shortest gate per step. Out of menu gate is lowest as is the global portamento control.

In the setup mode, I have a minor scale selected and all other options are off.

It's starting to drive me mad!

Any help is appreciated.
Steven

Hello

Is this a new problem, or it has happened since building the kit ?

If you have no-slew on the un-quantised output, but slew on the quantise output, then something other
than the portamento is causing the problem.
[ As quanitsed and un-quntised CV passes through the same portamento circuit ]

I would suggest that you check C12 & C15 are the correct 1nF value [ marked 1n], as these look
very similar to the 100nF capacitors [ which are marked 1k100 ].
If these were used by mistake this would definately cause some slew between notes.


ryk

[ryk]

And everything works, it calibrated up perfectly. What pops into my head now is that if you came up with a 16 step version of this it would be a super monster killer!

Thanks sduck !

I think I remember you bought one of the original kits from back in the day . . .

Do you really want 16 step ?
The current version has upto 64 steps, if you dont mind only 8 individual notes

Otherwise there is another way, but you will need 2 x M185.

cheers
ryk

[ryk]

Built my version of this today whilst waiting for parts on another project - all went well, and functioning almost as expected - but struggling to calibrate the main CV (CV2 has done so nicely). Once the reading on step 5 on CV1 is set to 5v, its not possible to get to 1V for step 5 (gets to around 1.3V), so it's not properly quantising. In the hardware check mode steps 1-4 all work as expected, but the pots on steps 5-8 will allow the red led to go up to step 8, but will never go back down below the green led afterwards. Suspecting a loose joint somewhere, but after a fair amount of digging I've not managed to locate anything yet - any ideas on where to focus? Have tried to follow the signal path but don't think I've fully got it sorted.

Only things of note with the build are I've got one of the early board and have not updated the sysex (assuming this is not the cause) and my rotary switch in my kit was possibly missing a leg (the bottom of the centre two) but again don't think this is that significant?! Any ideas?

Hello

Sorry to hear you are having some trouble with the calibration on CH1
Please double check the components R28,R32,C12 are correct, as these can affect the CV of CH1.

For the hardware calibration, are the problems on Stages 5-8 only with the pots, or problems on the switches also ?

Dont worry about your Rotary switch, they all only have one centre leg !

ryk

[sduck]

And everything works, it calibrated up perfectly. What pops into my head now is that if you came up with a 16 step version of this it would be a super monster killer!

Thanks sduck !

I think I remember you bought one of the original kits from back in the day . . .

Do you really want 16 step ?
The current version has upto 64 steps, if you dont mind only 8 individual notes

Otherwise there is another way, but you will need 2 x M185.

cheers
ryk

Yes! - It's behind a 5U panel by Julien -

Ryk m185 Sequencer profile by Stephen Drake, on Flickr

Ryk m185 Sequencer back 1 by Stephen Drake, on Flickr

[Haralds:Werk]

Do you really want 16 step ?
The current version has upto 64 steps, if you dont mind only 8 individual notes

Otherwise there is another way, but you will need 2 x M185.

cheers
ryk

I am interested in this "other way". It might be worth building a second one.

[xahdrez]

Built my version of this today whilst waiting for parts on another project - all went well, and functioning almost as expected - but struggling to calibrate the main CV (CV2 has done so nicely). Once the reading on step 5 on CV1 is set to 5v, its not possible to get to 1V for step 5 (gets to around 1.3V), so it's not properly quantising. In the hardware check mode steps 1-4 all work as expected, but the pots on steps 5-8 will allow the red led to go up to step 8, but will never go back down below the green led afterwards. Suspecting a loose joint somewhere, but after a fair amount of digging I've not managed to locate anything yet - any ideas on where to focus? Have tried to follow the signal path but don't think I've fully got it sorted.

Only things of note with the build are I've got one of the early board and have not updated the sysex (assuming this is not the cause) and my rotary switch in my kit was possibly missing a leg (the bottom of the centre two) but again don't think this is that significant?! Any ideas?

Hello

Sorry to hear you are having some trouble with the calibration on CH1
Please double check the components R28,R32,C12 are correct, as these can affect the CV of CH1.

For the hardware calibration, are the problems on Stages 5-8 only with the pots, or problems on the switches also ?

Dont worry about your Rotary switch, they all only have one centre leg !

ryk

Hi Ryk
Thanks for getting back to me. I've checked those components, and all are as expected (R28=120k, R32=10k, C12=1nJ63). Reflowing the joints on the connecters between the boards has fixed the issues with the pots and all now track properly in test mode. All switches work as expected (assuming that occasional jumps back to led 1 if you move slowly between switch stages is normal). When I calibrate CV1 with VR1 to set 5V at step 5, I get quite accurate voltage steps, but just not the right amounts (S1=2V, S2=2.75V, S3=3.5V, S4= 4. 75V, S5=5V) so it seem it is functioning at wrong ratios some how. Putting the trimmer as low as possible, I'm not able to get step 1 to 1V (only down to 1.24V) so seems I'm missing something else! Any further ideas?
Many thanks!
Nick

[Sunshine Jones]

Hello!
I finished my build, calibrated nicely, looks wonderful and (mostly) works great, but I've got a weird issue: I've also got dancing green lights, and things aren't behaving quite right.
For example the stage limit potentiometer/switch seems to change modes? It's as if it's in edit and operation mode all at once. It's bizarre and makes no sense, however I can actually sequence on it (which is hilarious.)

Normally I would assume this might be a bungled switch, or maybe even a bad one, maybe a folded leg or two on the PIC?

I removed the PIC to be sure there wasn't a folded pin, there isn't.
I tested the socket for continuity and it's all beeps!
I also tested the connectors for continuity too. All beeps.

Seems related to something being intermittent with the stage selector, type/mode switches.
I've just taken it all back apart, and used some flux, and reflowed things (everything) and this hasn't fixed the trouble so much as it's expanded them.

The build looks pretty solid. No bridges that I've found yet. Continuity checks out. Components appear to be placed correctly.
I am baffled. Since I feel like banging my head against the table (to perhaps jar loose what I don't know I don't know) I am going to set it aside for now, and re read the parts in this thread about solving the dancing green lights trouble again for other clues later.

Additionally:
I'd love a link to the latest firmware for good measure, wouldn't hurt to flash it fresh just in case it's software, but those come via email? They aren't accessible from the RYK site that I can find.

[Sunshine Jones]

Hey Cool!
So I didn't put it down... I only half heartedly thought I might. But what I did was re read the dancing green lights section of this thread, and understood that what solved this issue was adjusting the socket for the PIC and fitting it together better.

So I removed the provided socket and replaced it with a milled socket.

Wonderful. Dancing green lights problem is solved. Clock is stable, stuttering notes are now single notes. transport buttons and mode selections no longer causing edit functions or other weirdness. Yes!

I also carefully re flowed the stage selector pot/switch and that's solved the problems there too.
Totally working perfectly now!!!

[Morgo_The_MonkeyGod]

Broken switch...

Built kit...worked fine, then noticed that the 3rd Gate slider would not go fully up. (could switch between positions 8 to 3 only)
Dissassembled and the whole switch fell apart as I applied some force to move it...(metal case unclipped)
Turns out one of the switch pins was blocking movement. Push it down with a soldering iron...switch moved fine.
Reassembled the switch..like a surgeon, but was loose and wonky, and not switching between settings reliably.
Desoldered and removed the switch...probably taken some pads off.
Unit still works and I can switch gate mode by bridging most connections with a breadboard wire.

Where can I get a replacement switch?
Can I flylead from switch positions where the pads have been taken off? (where?)
Can I get someone to repair (Ryk????) If I flub it?

Never solder while overly enthusiastic...I can fix ANYTHING (hmmmmm...)

O yeah...one of the mode switches had a broken leg and 2x caps were missing, but I fixed that!!!


*****UPDATE RYK has got back to me and all will be well. Thanks

Thanks in advance

Corrado