208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

From circuitbending to homebrew stompboxes & synths, keep the DIY spirit alive!

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe., lisa

Post Reply
User avatar
papz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3533
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 6:52 pm
Location: in a suitcase
Contact:

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by papz » Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:48 am

The Alps sliders and any part can be removed cleanly and easily with a good desoldering tool. I use a Hakko FR-300 and I'm super happy with, its currently available successor, the FR-301, should be even better.
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

tele_player
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:50 am
Location: Sacramento

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by tele_player » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:25 am

Yes, a good desoldering tool would help. Unfortunately, I only have an old blue plastic Edsyn SOLDAPULLT, and some desoldering braid.

User avatar
papz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3533
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 6:52 pm
Location: in a suitcase
Contact:

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by papz » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:09 pm

The time has come to get a Hakko then.
It makes the work really easier and saves a lot of time, stress, PCBs and parts.
Definitely my best tool purchase of the past decade.
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

User avatar
AlanP
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1015
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:37 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by AlanP » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:24 pm

Just to check, as long as I have the correct C&K on-on-on switches, they can be inserted either notch-up or notch-down? They aren't orientation-dependant (like the on-off-momentary switch), I mean?

User avatar
papz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3533
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 6:52 pm
Location: in a suitcase
Contact:

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by papz » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:28 pm

Yes you can insert them as you like.
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

User avatar
papz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3533
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 6:52 pm
Location: in a suitcase
Contact:

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by papz » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:12 pm

Maybe this will help a builder someday.

There was a hard to find short between quiet ground and -15V on the motherboard of a 208 I'm currently building.
It was caused by a metal tab below the CO fine tuning pot touching the -15V trace of its CW terminal.
short.jpg
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

tele_player
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:50 am
Location: Sacramento

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by tele_player » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:01 pm

Interesting. You have built these before - what changed? Are you using a different pot?

User avatar
davebr
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 680
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:55 am
Location: Portland, OR USA

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by davebr » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:21 pm

papz wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:12 pm
Maybe this will help a builder someday.

There was a hard to find short between quiet ground and -15V on the motherboard of a 208 I'm currently building.
It was caused by a metal tab below the CO fine tuning pot touching the -15V trace of its CW terminal.
I didn't recognize this tab from the photo but it is the side profile of the tab nearest the pins. My analysis says it is also an issue for the MO fine potentiometer as well, but not for the waveshape potentiometer. Thanks for the notice.

I regularly check tab clearance and break many off on other Buchla builds and admit I've missed these. I've built plenty of 208s but haven't run into this before. Note that the tab simply connects to the shaft so the shaft has to short to the panel, which is likely, but possibly with some resistance.

I just checked both the MO and CO and by pressing on the knob and I can cause continuity between the shaft and -15V. I simply desoldered the potentiometers from the back and pulled them higher so the pins were flush with the PCB and resoldered, then dropped the knobs back down. This provides adequate clearance to the tab and the pins and two soldered tabs hold the potentiometer sufficiently.

If you cannot desolder the potentiometers I suspect a sturdy piece of insulation slid down over the shaft would do in a pinch.

I also grind one tab higher on the Alps sliders as they nearly touch a trace on many of the positions. While this wouldn't cause a short, I don't like the idea of floating metal touching a trace.

Dave

User avatar
papz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3533
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 6:52 pm
Location: in a suitcase
Contact:

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by papz » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:05 am

It's surprising a short occured with the MO fine tune since on the 208p motherboard (and I think 208r but don't have one on hand to check), no top trace passes under the MO pot.
In my builds, I tighten a nut behind the panel to improve the pot's stability, which makes a good contact to 0V.
I've built many with the same pots and PCBs indeed and it's the first time this happens, also no one reported similar issue so far, it obviously depends on the pot position.
I fixed it the same way as Dave suggests, pulling the pot without unmounting the panel.
One could simply bend this tab for the CO pot preventively before installation.
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

User avatar
davebr
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 680
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:55 am
Location: Portland, OR USA

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by davebr » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:39 am

Rats, I read the board backwards. I only have a image of a EMS board and There is a trace similarly placed under the waveshape pot. However, when I wiggled the MO pot, I might have moved the motherboard and gotten the CO to touch. I guess I'll pull it again and raise that pot just in case.

Dave

User avatar
papz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3533
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 6:52 pm
Location: in a suitcase
Contact:

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by papz » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:13 pm

I added to the build notes a recommendedation to preventively bend the pot's tab.
If there's another run, these traces will be rectified.
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

User avatar
AlanP
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1015
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:37 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by AlanP » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:46 pm

My 208papz build is working now, and sounds very good :) (I followed Mr Brown's vactrol matching recommendations, and got parts kits from Boops (a new card 12 from him as well) and SA Modular.

The only issues I had were where I missed a pin on an IC socket.

User avatar
papz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3533
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 6:52 pm
Location: in a suitcase
Contact:

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by papz » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:24 pm

You deserve the P at the end of your nickname. :tu:
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

jonen
Common Wiggler
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:35 am
Location: Berlin

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by jonen » Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:03 pm

papz wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:49 am
I'd rather desolder each transistor and test it to get more reliable results.
A cheap tester like this is good to have and enough to spot faulty ones : https://www.befr.ebay.be/itm/Transistor ... 3431627171
I finally got my tester and was able to correctly test all transistors, all were recognized! Any idea, what else I could check? This all seems really weird to me because it all used to work just fine. Here is my problem again:
jonen wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:44 am
Unfortunately, my modulation oscillator stopped working. I am using the pa726 boards and for some reason the voltage regulator on it burned through, not really sure why, maybe a shortage accidentally caused by me.

I have since replaced the voltage regulator and confirmed the pa726 to be working by testing it in the complex oscillator. I also replaced all ICs on card 6, however there is still no sound, and IC2 (RC4136) gets really hot. Now I suspect that one of the transistors needs replacing, but I am not sure which. I took some voltage measurements, assuming they are all dc, I am not sure if this is true. Would there be any chance for anyone to verify these? I would greatly appreciate it, since those transistors are quite difficult to source.

Image

User avatar
papz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3533
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 6:52 pm
Location: in a suitcase
Contact:

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by papz » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:24 am

Check the resistors and caps, maybe one fried when the shortage occured.
Check the contacts of the pA726 mounting by moving it.
Check if the MO modulates the CO in AM and FM and if signal is present at the mod CV out, if so, it's still working and the issue is elsewhere.
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

keycat
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:46 am

Re:

Post by keycat » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:37 am

beautyofdecay_ wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:29 pm
I started my build today and populated the motherboard.
I have to wait for the cards components before I can continue...

Image
could I have some help on what parts to buy? (I'm going to buy the PCB set)

User avatar
papz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3533
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 6:52 pm
Location: in a suitcase
Contact:

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by papz » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:42 am

All you need to know is in the BOM, build notes and FAQ, the links are on http://www.portabellabz.be/208pcb.html
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

jonen
Common Wiggler
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:35 am
Location: Berlin

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by jonen » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:14 pm

papz wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:24 am
Check the resistors and caps, maybe one fried when the shortage occured.
Check the contacts of the pA726 mounting by moving it.
Check if the MO modulates the CO in AM and FM and if signal is present at the mod CV out, if so, it's still working and the issue is elsewhere.
Thanks for the tips, I managed to finally get card 6 working again. It was a fried cap and a broken rc4136. Thanks again for the help!

Now as these things go, I now have another issue: The keyboard control switch for the modulation oscillator does not work. I had a look at the schematic for card 6 and I do not quite understand how the switch plays into it. The bracketed "keyboard control" does not seem to belong to specific input, but is the case on card 7. Now when I play some keys I do get the voltages changes on pin 1 of card 6 but don't hear any pitch changes in either switch position. Also, voltages on pin 6 do not change as they should be to my understanding. Any idea how I can check the switch here or what else to check besides q1?

jonen
Common Wiggler
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:35 am
Location: Berlin

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by jonen » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:14 pm

... double post

User avatar
papz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3533
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 6:52 pm
Location: in a suitcase
Contact:

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by papz » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:42 am

IC2 and IC3 are good suspects.
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

jonen
Common Wiggler
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:35 am
Location: Berlin

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by jonen » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:51 am

papz wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:42 am
IC2 and IC3 are good suspects.
Found the issue, apparently the switching is done on card 7 (switch on or off comes in on card 6 on pin 3 labeled as "h" on the schematics), but i tested it without card 7 plugged in. With card 7 installed everything works as it should be! Thanks again for your help papz, also the calibration tipps are very helpful, got it to track nicely for 4 octaves.

User avatar
xahdrez
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 321
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:16 pm
Location: London

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by xahdrez » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:58 am

After a long hiatus (work/moving house/blah) I finally managed to get back on this. Had just got everything working reaaaaallly nicely and gutted that my random voltage switch failed on me and is now much more like a joystick. Rather than rush into fixing I thought I'd check in here if anyone else has had similar and has any tips on removing and replacing (I have a decent desoldering tool). Also, anyone got European (or even UK!) source on these - https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detai ... -ND/483872

thanks!

User avatar
papz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3533
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 6:52 pm
Location: in a suitcase
Contact:

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by papz » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:19 pm

:tu: jonen

Taiway switches are very nice and available in Germany from https://www.banzaimusic.com/Taiway-DPDT ... Mount.html but the website often lies about actual availability, it's good to ask the shop to confirm it's available before ordering.
To replace the switch neatly and prevent damages to the PCB traces, you should unmount the panel and dismantle the faulty switch to desolder each pin one at a time.
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

User avatar
xahdrez
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 321
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:16 pm
Location: London

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by xahdrez » Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:40 pm

Amazing, thanks papz - will do on both those counts!

User avatar
xahdrez
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 321
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:16 pm
Location: London

Re: 208p build thread (papz's PCBs)

Post by xahdrez » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:05 pm

Sorted - and I took the opportunity to adjust the MO and CO fine tuning pots while I was there (not that I had any issues with them, but figure while the panel was off I might as well)! Now the lengthy wait for the new switch. Thanks for your help!

Post Reply

Return to “Music Tech DIY”