New Syncussion with MIDI and Silent power - VIDEOS

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drakos
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Post by drakos » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:11 am

Bodo1967 wrote:
drakos wrote:when the build manual refers to 'Ch1 TUNE' where do i find this control?
Image

Or, without the case:

Image

The VCO2 offset trimmers you need for adjusting are on the voice board:

Image

Thanks for your help. I was slightly confused! All good now. In my excited haste i missed a connection on the pitch slider. All good now and sounding great

It works, obviously, the same way for channel 2 :).

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Bodo1967
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Post by Bodo1967 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:15 am

drakos wrote:All good now and sounding great
:tu:

Yes, this thing indeed sounds awesome :nana: !
... why buy it for $100 when you can build it yourself for $150?

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Synth Con Meo
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Post by Synth Con Meo » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:30 am

I think I am about to finally start assembling mine from the first batch. I just want to make sure before I start that if I follow the v1.30 version of the build documentation satindas site that things should go together fine. I've looked through a lot of this thread but it's sometimes a little hard to deduce if there are any issues that I really need to be concerned with. The only one that I can see off hand is the small possibility of the noisy power issues but obviously I won't know if that will affect me until I am finished.

Thanks

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mcop
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Post by mcop » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:40 am

I'm just getting the parts together to build a couple of these and have a quick question about resistors.
As I've been building stuff for many years now I have a good supply of metal film resistors and wondered if there was any noticable audible difference in using metal film rather than carbon?

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Post by aabbcc » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:11 am

mcop wrote:I'm just getting the parts together to build a couple of these and have a quick question about resistors.
As I've been building stuff for many years now I have a good supply of metal film resistors and wondered if there was any noticable audible difference in using metal film rather than carbon?
Nope :) (at least not to my ears)

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mcop
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Post by mcop » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:15 am

aabbcc wrote: Nope :) (at least not to my ears)
To be fair I didn't expect it to make much difference!
Rather get on with building than wait for an order to arrive :)

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Bodo1967
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Post by Bodo1967 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:06 am

August 2018:
Bodo1967 wrote:I'd take a very close look at the numerous ground connection solder points. IMHO, they are rather likely 'bad solder joint candidates' due to the strong heat dissipation while soldering.

Speaking of which; I'll (have to) do this with mine as well after having encountered a strange phenomenon during a jam session with a friend on the weekend:

Suddenly, Ch 2 went very quiet (as in, hardly audible) after a while. My first thought was "oh no, not another CD4069...!"

But then, after a half hour break it played normally again. Some time later, the same thing occurred on Ch 1 :despair: . This also became better after a while (something like half as loud as Ch 2, which played completely normal again). And, strange enough, volume was louder when triggered manually than with the Korg SQ-1 I sequenced it with (which works really well, by the way).

Since components such as ICs etc. usually don't repair themselves after they are broken ;) I can only assume some of the ground pad solder joints (they were a pita (sorry!) to solder after all...) don't connect properly and do strange things when the unit becomes warm. Apart from the heat simply produced while operating the unit, we also had about 30 °C (that's about 86 °F) in my music room on Sunday.
November 2018:
Bodo1967 wrote:some of the ground pads are hard to solder due to strong heat dissipation leading to bad solder joints (disclaimer: in the first batch, I don't know about the second one - supposedly this has been dealt with).
I still have to resolder these in my build sometime :ripbanana: .
I completely forgot to mention I did that in the meantime (and I set the soldering station from 350 °C to 425 °C for doing so), and now it is apparently OK. Did two extensive jam sessions with friends on the weekend, and the SY-1M performed absolutely flawlessly :tu: , while it was switched on for more or less the whole day on both days.
Synth Con Meo wrote:it's sometimes a little hard to deduce if there are any issues that I really need to be concerned with. The only one that I can see off hand is the small possibility of the noisy power issues
Be very careful about soldering those ground pads well ;). Apart from that, there is nothing special to consider which wouldn't be addressed in the thread.

And you can really look forward to finally using the finished unit - this is really an awesome little machine :love: , and the build guide is also excellent. The PCB "maps" for each and every part are just fantastic and make things so much easier (we all know these "darn it, where the *beep* do that R123 and this C47 go on the PCB?" situations, don't we ;)).
... why buy it for $100 when you can build it yourself for $150?

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Post by huglo » Fri May 10, 2019 2:52 am

Hello guys I'm still working on it... when i've got patience.
Everything seem to work except that I having trouble with calibration

I tried this method ->

Each time I put a jack on point 1 or 2 I can hear a buzz with the tune and after a few seconds the IC from Vco2 are dying. (these happen two times)
Are the buzzes responsable of the dying IC?

I can also hear a buzz on the output on both channels when the volume pots are not in maximum.

and also a small thing I didn't track yet, the speed led from LFO on channel two is lightning every minute when the speed pot is down, could it come from the pot itself?

Thank you.

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Altitude909
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Post by Altitude909 » Fri May 10, 2019 8:28 am

huglo wrote:Hello guys I'm still working on it... when i've got patience.
Everything seem to work except that I having trouble with calibration

...
First off, that's not the same device in the video, similar

When you say "dying" do you mean it stops working or is the pitch dropping? If its dropping, its normal. I would NOT use the "ground the resistor" approach, when you do that, you tie the output of an opamp to 0V which is a REALLY bad approach. Use LEDmans trick, plug a clock input (or something super fast) into the trigger input so its retriggering constantly, that will fix the drift.

Calibration is done by (in OSC Mode A)

A) Adjust OSC 1 pitch to 440 with pitch slider
B) Adjust OSC 2 pitch to 450 with Trimmer
C) Repeat until OSC1 is 440 on and OSC2 is 450 exactly

Span is done by:

Plug in midi, play a low C, measure the frequency on the OSC 1, play a C 2 octaves up from that and adjust until it is 4 times the frequency. The way I do it is send 1V, adjust to 250 Hz with slider, send 3V adjust span trimmer to 1000 Hz. Repeat until the high is 4 times the frequency of the low. The numbers dont really matter, just as long as its 4x
Last edited by Altitude909 on Wed May 15, 2019 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by breadman » Tue May 14, 2019 9:28 pm

LED-man wrote:It’s not needed on the SY-1M.
But few users (5-10) that’s maybe 0.5% of all devices got a coil problem, high frequency tones.
But I can measure tomorrow the noise ratio with my FFT analyzer.
I have 5 different syncussions for testing here.
Would this be an issue with the 220uH inductor, or with the RF choke? I just built a SY-1M and am finding the PSU far from quiet (noise with freq spikes around 2k and 18k), particularly on channel 2. Would love to clear it up without ordering, building up and retrofitting the PSU fix PCB...
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MechaSeb
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Post by MechaSeb » Sat May 25, 2019 6:07 pm

Hello to all.

I just finished a SY-1m l(ast batch) but am completely stucked since 2 days at debugging step...

Top voice is working perfectly. Bottom voice is always ON whatever setting i try to set on (the whole other parameters are working).

So i tried debugging as follwow :

1. re-checking each components value -> ok
2. re-checking each soldering points -> ok
3. tried swapping 4069, 4558 & 1458 between voice 1 & 2 -> no effect
4. tried re-flueing/soldering some of BCM857 & BCM847 -> no effect

At this stage i'm pretty sure i have a died transistor (pair ?) somewhere but i don't know which one and don't have access to my osciloscope to trace the signal. Does any builder got the same issue ? By reading original Syncussion service manual, i think the culprit could be tr39, tr40 ?

Thanks in advance.
The build document was so nice, it's a shame to be stucked with such a little issue (i'm sure).

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MechaSeb
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Post by MechaSeb » Sat May 25, 2019 6:46 pm

EDIT: sorted this out.
Thanks for the help.

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didahdrieghe
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Post by didahdrieghe » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:16 pm

So I've got a weird problem with my latest builds :hmm:

Everything seems functional except for the fact that the whole machine sounds a few octaves too low. So only the top bit of the pitch slider results in a tone you can hear, the rest is too low in pitch to hear. Got this problem with the latest 2 kits, I've narrowed it down to a problem in the voice boards as I had a working unit and putting that voice board on the weird-acting ones' control boards worked out. Anyone recognize this behaviour?

- Tried swapping out 4096's
- Tried new headers between the boards
- Went over all the SMD pads

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satindas
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Post by satindas » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:35 pm

didahdrieghe wrote:So I've got a weird problem with my latest builds :hmm:

Everything seems functional except for the fact that the whole machine sounds a few octaves too low. So only the top bit of the pitch slider results in a tone you can hear, the rest is too low in pitch to hear. Got this problem with the latest 2 kits, I've narrowed it down to a problem in the voice boards as I had a working unit and putting that voice board on the weird-acting ones' control boards worked out. Anyone recognize this behaviour?

- Tried swapping out 4096's
- Tried new headers between the boards
- Went over all the SMD pads
This sounds like a component misplace. If it's happened to two builds there's a chance you've re-bagged some resistors in the wrong bag at some point. I'd start by checking all resistor values against the working unit. (4k7 and 47k are prone to getting mixed up ;) Colour codes are your friend :tu:
These are bizarre manifestations of untamed high-frequency parasitic oscillations...
www.psycox.co.uk

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satindas
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Post by satindas » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:40 pm

Altitude909 wrote:
huglo wrote:Hello guys I'm still working on it... when i've got patience.
Everything seem to work except that I having trouble with calibration

...
..... Use LEDmans trick, plug a clock input (or something super fast) into the trigger input so its retriggering constantly, that will fix the drift.
Or you can just pull out the TL082s from the S/H :hihi:
These are bizarre manifestations of untamed high-frequency parasitic oscillations...
www.psycox.co.uk

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Synth Con Meo
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Post by Synth Con Meo » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:03 pm

roglok wrote: Also worth noting is that the original schematic specifies polystyrene capacitors for VCO timing caps C8 and C10. Those who are after improved temperature stability of their oscillators might put either C0G/NP0 or polystyrene caps in these spots...
Ok I have finally started building mine. I have a Rev 1 from the first offering. I also saw this on LED-Man's site which he has "for both versions: (not in BOM) C1 C2 C8 C10 must be a C0G/NP0 or Styrene (polypropylene caps do not fit due to their size, maybe)
order 4xC0G : 810-FK28C0G2A102JN06
or 4x Styrene: 23PS210"

Which kind of confuses me a little bit. I did purchase all my components through MOUSER using the BOM but it appears that I should use these different CAPS instead? Plus since the PCB's don't exactly show C1, C2, C8 or C10 I am not sure where these exact locations are?

Sorry for the rudimentary questions. As mentioned before I am still pretty noobish in the DIY department so any changes/work arounds after the fact kind of looses me in respect of knowing exactly why or where to do some of this.

Could someone please clarify this a bit more?

Thanks

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Post by aabbcc » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:05 am

Synth Con Meo wrote:
roglok wrote: Also worth noting is that the original schematic specifies polystyrene capacitors for VCO timing caps C8 and C10. Those who are after improved temperature stability of their oscillators might put either C0G/NP0 or polystyrene caps in these spots...
Ok I have finally started building mine. I have a Rev 1 from the first offering. I also saw this on LED-Man's site which he has "for both versions: (not in BOM) C1 C2 C8 C10 must be a C0G/NP0 or Styrene (polypropylene caps do not fit due to their size, maybe)
order 4xC0G : 810-FK28C0G2A102JN06
or 4x Styrene: 23PS210"

Which kind of confuses me a little bit. I did purchase all my components through MOUSER using the BOM but it appears that I should use these different CAPS instead? Plus since the PCB's don't exactly show C1, C2, C8 or C10 I am not sure where these exact locations are?

Sorry for the rudimentary questions. As mentioned before I am still pretty noobish in the DIY department so any changes/work arounds after the fact kind of looses me in respect of knowing exactly why or where to do some of this.

Could someone please clarify this a bit more?

Thanks
You dont HAVE TO use c0g or styrence caps but it's prefered to do so to get better vco stability.

They are located on the top, right hand side on 4 of the 4x 4069 chips (inline with pin 14 and 12 of each of the chip).

Edit: excuse the horrible quality of the photo, don't have my laptop at hand
Image

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Post by Synth Con Meo » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:38 am

aabbcc wrote:
You dont HAVE TO use c0g or styrence caps but it's prefered to do so to get better vco stability.

They are located on the top, right hand side on 4 of the 4x 4069 chips (inline with pin 14 and 12 of each of the chip).

Edit: excuse the horrible quality of the photo, don't have my laptop at hand
Image
Ahhh ok, so they would replace (4) of the film caps down on the control board then. Yeah ok I'll go ahead and do that just to help in stability. Also LED-man recommends changing out the Trim pots with multiturn Trim pots for the CV V/Oct and V/Oct for Midi. I am assuming for getting finer calibration. Does anyone find that they have issues with calibrating with the one turn Trim pots that are in the BOM?

Thanks

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Post by LED-man » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:29 pm

The Multiturn trimmer are used by me for easier calibration of CV and Midi CV.
The c0g caps are better and in same price range than filmcaps.
Most DIYer still have c0g at home.
There’s always room for improvements.. like better output opamps, but you have to understand the complete circuit in this case, the cheap carbon resistors bring more thermal noise and induction in this circuit.
I built many syncussion clones with different parts, the Signal noise ratio is better, the VCOs sounds more stabil but you lost the original dirty sound.
My SY-1 sounds different to the SY-1M too.
The low end frequency of kick drums sounds different and the decay is different.
Furthermore ignore the Noise Voltage calibration, just set the noise gain by your ear. (One of my syncussions is only for hihat sounds which need more gain)
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Synth Con Meo
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Post by Synth Con Meo » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:11 pm

LED-man wrote:The Multiturn trimmer are used by me for easier calibration of CV and Midi CV.
The c0g caps are better and in same price range than filmcaps.
Most DIYer still have c0g at home.
There’s always room for improvements.. like better output opamps, but you have to understand the complete circuit in this case, the cheap carbon resistors bring more thermal noise and induction in this circuit.
I built many syncussion clones with different parts, the Signal noise ratio is better, the VCOs sounds more stabil but you lost the original dirty sound.
My SY-1 sounds different to the SY-1M too.
The low end frequency of kick drums sounds different and the decay is different.
Furthermore ignore the Noise Voltage calibration, just set the noise gain by your ear. (One of my syncussions is only for hihat sounds which need more gain)
Thank you so much for all your input. Like mentioned I am not at any caliber as you or others on the DIY stuff. I pretty much have put together kits that usually have all the components so I really don't have any stock pile of extra components. I've been meaning to comb through some of the suggestions on what components one should stock up on but haven't yet.

And in this case with the SY-1M I just ordered what the BOM said to order. I kind of maybe blindly follow the build instructions on any of the builds kind of like a puzzle. So when I come across things like using different components and such that are mentioned in threads or in your case on your web site I don't always understand why. Sometimes it's an improvement on something or sometimes it's to fix a flaw in the design. So I end up coming here in the DIY section and ask.

Thanks again

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Post by Synth Con Meo » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:17 pm

Ok I do have another question regarding the (4) C0G caps to substitute for the (4) film caps. LED-Man linked these: 1000 pF 100V caps to substitute. I actually have these: 1000 pF 50V caps that I somehow ended up ordering for another project that I haven't used them yet. Am I to assume that these would work just fine only that they are 50v rather than the 100v in LED-mans link?

Part of the reason why I ask is that I ordered my components I think off the first BOM that was available and that about (3) of Al-capactors were rated at a higher voltage than what the subsequent BOM shows. Plus the PCB shows a lower voltage. I looked into it some and from what I can tell I can go up in voltage (in the specs) and that the size might change of the component but they should work. But with these C0G caps being a lower voltage than what LED-Man links too I just wasn't 100% sure if there will be an issue.

Thanks

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Post by aabbcc » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:55 pm

Synth Con Meo wrote:Ok I do have another question regarding the (4) C0G caps to substitute for the (4) film caps. LED-Man linked these: 1000 pF 100V caps to substitute. I actually have these: 1000 pF 50V caps that I somehow ended up ordering for another project that I haven't used them yet. Am I to assume that these would work just fine only that they are 50v rather than the 100v in LED-mans link?

Part of the reason why I ask is that I ordered my components I think off the first BOM that was available and that about (3) of Al-capactors were rated at a higher voltage than what the subsequent BOM shows. Plus the PCB shows a lower voltage. I looked into it some and from what I can tell I can go up in voltage (in the specs) and that the size might change of the component but they should work. But with these C0G caps being a lower voltage than what LED-Man links too I just wasn't 100% sure if there will be an issue.

Thanks

You'llbe just fine, the sy1m is no where near 50v ;)

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Post by Synth Con Meo » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:08 pm

aabbcc wrote:
You'llbe just fine, the sy1m is no where near 50v ;)
Yeah thanks. I know the power supply is only what 9v but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. Like some sort of voltage step up circuit or something dumb like that. That's all.

Thanks again

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Post by gslug » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:20 pm

Finished building mine a couple of days ago. Channel 1 works fine, but I have a strange issue with channel 2. It is initially silent, but once triggered drones on forever, as if the envelope never decays. Anyone had similar issues?

EDIT: Did a bit of schematic tracing looking for obvious suspects and found one pin of TR42 not connected. Fixed ! Now to calibrate it.

Thanks Satindas for an excellent and well documented kit!
One day I'll get an avatar!

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Post by NekoNeko » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:33 pm

I missed out on a kit on the last run. If anyones got a spare or want to sell one please PM me.

I built one for a customer and was great build and great machine.

EDIT - all sorted now!
Last edited by NekoNeko on Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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