Jan Ostman - DSP Synths

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Jackdamery
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Post by Jackdamery » Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:07 pm

So I wanted one of the midi to cv modules he made. Any idea who bought the company?

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Post by Zube » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:53 pm

Jackdamery wrote:So I wanted one of the midi to cv modules he made. Any idea who bought the company?

:doh: he didn't really sell it anymore than he had cancer. You're being duped

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Post by unauthorised-service » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:00 am

Jackdamery wrote:So I wanted one of the midi to cv modules he made. Any idea who bought the company?
I would recommend Just get the midimuso cv12 kit .

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search64
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Post by search64 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:33 am

I would recommend nobody ever buy anything related to Jan Ostman ever again.

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Post by iSapien1956672 » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:40 am

search64 wrote:I would recommend nobody ever buy anything related to Jan Ostman ever again.
:hail: :guinness: :clap: :chug: :popcorn:

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Sad.

Post by qjruahmqzz » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:56 am

This goes to show the difference between a great engineer and a great businessman.

Putting aside for the moment the business / customer side of things make no mistake, the engineering of the code is terrific. This guy is a great engineer. I'm very impressed with his code and what he wrings out of these chips. People can talk all they want about the price of the parts, it's the code. This is like when you buy an app or a DAW or a video game or a word processor. You are paying for the code.

It's really too bad he wasn't a better businessman because his ideas and products are very cool. I learned a lot from his code. If people want to learn he's been quite open with the source code of many of his early projects.

Anyway, I am not defending the business dealings, but just wanted to give my opinion on his work which should not be given the same disparagement just because of the bad feelings from the bad dealings and customer service.

But I understand everyone feeling the way they do.

Hope things work out in the end for everyone!

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Re: Sad.

Post by iSapien1956672 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:34 am

qjruahmqzz wrote:This goes to show the difference between a great engineer and a great businessman.

Putting aside for the moment the business / customer side of things make no mistake, the engineering of the code is terrific. This guy is a great engineer. I'm very impressed with his code and what he wrings out of these chips. People can talk all they want about the price of the parts, it's the code. This is like when you buy an app or a DAW or a video game or a word processor. You are paying for the code.

It's really too bad he wasn't a better businessman because his ideas and products are very cool. I learned a lot from his code. If people want to learn he's been quite open with the source code of many of his early projects.

Anyway, I am not defending the business dealings, but just wanted to give my opinion on his work which should not be given the same disparagement just because of the bad feelings from the bad dealings and customer service.

But I understand everyone feeling the way they do.

Hope things work out in the end for everyone!
But we will never know now, will we?
That’s why we “bought” his stuff in the first place, we liked his ideas...
:hmm:

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BugBrand
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Post by BugBrand » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:42 am

I disagree - though I don't know much about programming, a lot of his engineering ways were shonky as fuck - I mean, he was sending out 3d printed panels, with super minimal electronics, just crap - and he got right pissy about any criticism. Yes, I liked the sound of some of the ideas, but... he cut a lot of corners, though maybe some things did improve over the years.

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Post by Grumble » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:13 am

BugBrand wrote:I disagree - though I don't know much about programming
:omg:

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Post by BugBrand » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:20 am

Grumble wrote:
BugBrand wrote:I disagree - though I don't know much about programming
:omg:
Ha, yeah, possibly! But.. i) engineering (here at least) is way more than the code itself & ii) granted it was a few years back now, but comments on the Mutable forum certainly pointed out that his code approaches weren't all that.

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Post by mskala » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:32 am

BugBrand wrote:Ha, yeah, possibly! But.. i) engineering (here at least) is way more than the code itself & ii) granted it was a few years back now, but comments on the Mutable forum certainly pointed out that his code approaches weren't all that.
Algorithms below state of the art, false claims made about what the algorithms were doing (e.g. "no aliasing" for a naive wavetable with plenty of aliasing, and "virtual analog" for a synth that simply wasn't), haphazard code formatting, little to no internal documentation, vague copyright terms for the original parts, and questionable reuse of others' work. Not code that newbies should be imitating as a positive example.
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search64
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Post by search64 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:58 am

Reposting this:

https://forum.mutable-instruments.net/t ... th/7623/16

TL:DR his code was also shit. Don’t believe me, believe Emilie from Mutable Instruments who tried to help Jan improve his crappy code, only to get a bunch of ho-hum from our boy wonder in return.

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not a programmer?

Post by qjruahmqzz » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:37 am

search64 wrote:Reposting this:

https://forum.mutable-instruments.net/t ... th/7623/16

TL:DR his code was also shit. Don’t believe me, believe Emilie from Mutable Instruments who tried to help Jan improve his crappy code, only to get a bunch of ho-hum from our boy wonder in return.
That's a very interesting and technical thread. Thanks, it was an interesting read but it certainly doesn't prove that his code is crappy. Are you a programmer yourself?

It's all a matter of perspective. Pichenettes (Emile?) brings up some good points I think. From my perspective I never expected much from the lowly Nano chip that for example the string synth was developed for and from that point of view it's a good piece of work. Gets a lot out of the part and produces a decent sound. If you actually thought it was a proper emulation of a Solina well I could see how you might want something closer.

I'm pretty glad to have some good examples of doing multi voice synth audio type stuff on the AT Mega chips. By comparison most other popular examples I have seen are barely doing more than a single voice square wave beeps and boops.

I do appreciate the band limited digital synthesis techniques that were used in the Gameboy and brought up in that thread. There were also some great links from that thread for me to chew on.

I do think the string synth sounds decent. It could probably be better. Is there enough processing power left on the Nano? Quite possibly. So maybe some room for improvement.

So is his code perfect? Sounds like it has room for improvement but it's demonstrably not crappy.

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Post by search64 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:44 am

Not only is his code the most basic implementation of a sawtooth without any anti-aliasing, HE'S LYING ABOUT IT TOO. If this doesn't prove to you his code was shit, nothing will.

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Post by Grumble » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:58 am

You shouldn’t just look at the code.
He uses pwm methode to generate audio, this only works when you use a low pass R/C filter, eliminating aliasing.

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search64
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Post by search64 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:15 am

Shitty software, shitty hardware, shitty personality.

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Post by Grumble » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:27 am

search64 wrote:Shitty software, shitty hardware, shitty personality.
Nee, jij trekt volle zalen :omg:

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Post by iSapien1956672 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:29 am

:hmm:
What if qjuarhiuqzzz is really just Jan trolling us all to defend himself.
That's the vibe I'm getting.
If you look at your keyboard and you look at their handle, type out the letters and it looks like qjjsiodvoijxx.

Maybe not, maybe they really are one of the lucky few that got a module from Jan.
my 2 cents :youkids:
:viking: :msnsmack:
Last edited by iSapien1956672 on Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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search64
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Post by search64 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:37 am

Grumble wrote:
search64 wrote:Shitty software, shitty hardware, shitty personality.
Nee, jij trekt volle zalen :omg:
Kom vechten dan!

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Post by Grumble » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:40 am

ignore :party:

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Post by qjruahmqzz » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:56 am

iSapien1956672 wrote::hmm:
What if qjuarhiuqzzz is really just Jan trolling us all to defend himself.
That's the vibe I'm getting.
If you look at your keyboard and you look at their handle, type out the letters and it looks like qjjsiodvoijxx.

Maybe not, maybe they really are one of the lucky few that got a module from Jan.
my 2 cents :youkids:
:viking: :msnsmack:
Apparently I'm brave (or stupid) to be stepping into the fray but I don't have the same personality or typing style etc etc. Obviously I'm not Jan or a troll. I'm not even disagreeing with people about how they feel or defending Jan as far as how he's left everyone so hostile.

A bit of a hornets nest!

But I've probably said about as much as I should, so next time I say something it'll be on a new topic.

cheers, and keep wiggling your muffs! The real fun is making sound.

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Post by lisa » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:14 am

Ordered once from Jan and got what I ordered. No issues. However, it is obvious that many didn’t get what they ordered.

Also, that Mutable Instruments forum thread is really cringy reading. It is clear that Jan’s code doesn’t do what he claims (regarding aliasing) and when Emile takes time to help him out with good pointers he respons in a clearly arrogant tone.
An exclusive, all Alesis Ion track! The best synth ever made. :guinness:


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Post by BugBrand » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:11 am

qjruahmqzz wrote:A bit of a hornets nest!

But I've probably said about as much as I should, so next time I say something it'll be on a new topic.

cheers, and keep wiggling your muffs! The real fun is making sound.
Well, welcome! Yes, this particular subject is one with fire - but so much goodness around this forum too.

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Re: not a programmer?

Post by Arneb » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:05 am

qjruahmqzz wrote:
search64 wrote:Reposting this:

https://forum.mutable-instruments.net/t ... th/7623/16

TL:DR his code was also shit. Don’t believe me, believe Emilie from Mutable Instruments who tried to help Jan improve his crappy code, only to get a bunch of ho-hum from our boy wonder in return.
That's a very interesting and technical thread. Thanks, it was an interesting read but it certainly doesn't prove that his code is crappy. Are you a programmer yourself?
Actually that exchange doesn't really put Janost's skills as a coder into question. Emilie's criticism was that the code made false assumptions on the mathematics of DSP - which would be an epic fail in the electrical engineering part of the job, not the coding part.

(Tbh I haven't read the code but I'm pretty sure that if it was that bad in a coding sense Emilie wouldn't have taken the time to figure out what it did wrong to begin with.)

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Post by search64 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:12 am

Sure this looks like a perfectly fine sawtooth:

Image
Image

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